“A hyperdrive craft would put the stars within reach for the first time”

[The Mullinator]

As I was reading the article and posting this topic music from Star Trek 3 came on where they were stealing the Enterprise, which really made the whole thing seem a lot cooler.

Anyway:
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925331.200

Basically to sum up the article a Star Trekish method for travelling through space is actually a theory that may soon be experimented on. If it can prove sucessful of course and construction of devices capable of doing this can be built then
"Forget spending six months or more holed up in a rocket on the way to Mars, a round trip on the hyperdrive could take as little as 5 hours. All our worries about astronauts' muscles wasting away or their DNA being irreparably damaged by cosmic radiation would disappear overnight. What's more the device would put travel to the stars within reach for the first time."

This also isn't really in the realm of junk science since the theory (although originally conceived by a German physicist in the 1950's) comes from a paper that just last year was awarded a prize for the best paper given to the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics in the category of "nuclear and future flight"

 

[dream431ca]

Hyperdrive is just as fictional as Gravitic Warp (if you have Star ocean for PS2, you should know what that is). If you ever get a change to play star ocean for the PS2, they have a lot of theories on space travel (and a full dictionary to explain them all)

 

[The Mullinator]

Hyperdrive is just as fictional as Gravitic Warp (if you have Star ocean for PS2, you should know what that is). If you ever get a change to play star ocean for the PS2, they have a lot of theories on space travel (and a full dictionary to explain them all)

Did you not read the article? Also did you not know that Newscientist is a very reputable scientific journal?

Anyway here are some articles about this from other news sources:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obj...d=94762&headline=mars-in-3hrs--name_page.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/06/hyperdrive/

 

[jondy]

Yeah, I read the issue, did they get measurable results from the experiment? I can't remember.

EDIT: Disregard that, read your post in full

 

[TheHamster22]

I remember reading this article in the New Scientist a few days ago, it seemed quite interesting... would be amazing if they proved it to work too obviously

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Yeah, I read it in New Scientist, surprisingly a day after Clarky came out with a load of stuff about dimensions and waves, and craziness. Conspiracy? I think so.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[CyberPitz]

Be kinda neat if it actually worked.

Too bad I won't be seeing any terraformations before my death.

 

[Beerdude26]

Be kinda neat if it actually worked.

Too bad I won't be seeing any terraformations before my death.

You will always be <3ed for your porn.

 

[Glirk Dient]

friggin sweet!!

Next all we need is terraforming and an alliance totalitarian government to take over and we can all hop aboard our firfly-class spaceship called serenity!

fuggin awsome!

 

[CyberPitz]

You will always be <3ed for your porn.

\o/

Me and Ik are gonna make another one with pork chops and spaghetti!

 

[dream431ca]

Did you not read the article? Also did you not know that Newscientist is a very reputable scientific journal?

Anyway here are some articles about this from other news sources:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obj...d=94762&headline=mars-in-3hrs--name_page.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/06/hyperdrive/

Yes I read the article and I can say that this debate has been going on for many years and will continue to go on for many more years. The point is, I believe it may be possible, but not without extreme funding, and a whole lot of luck. I am far more interested in the possibility of getting close to cold fusion..that's the first step, then we can try this Hyperdrive thing out because it will take a whole lot of energy.

EDIT: another thing is that, a hyperdrive is a way to travel by bending space...and time. But I guess space and time are the same thing, so it wouldn't be a problem..however, to do that you would have to create a massive field around the front of the ship to compress space and near the back of the ship to expand space, making a sort of wormhole (if you believe they exist). Bendind space is possible, we know space bends from gravity, what we don't know is how gravity actually works. Gravity is still unproven, there is evidence that is exists, but it's still unproven (to a scientific point of view). Until we know exactly how gravity works and until we can get close to cold fusion, say goodbuy to Hyperdrive and other forms of extreme travel.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The first paragraph explains that Nasa are looking into funding it. As for compressing space like you mentioned, that's not Hyperdrive, that's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

-Angry Lawyer

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Aw man. I have Star Ocean 2.

Now I just wish I had a PS2 so I could play it. ):

---
I don't believe hyperspace-like propulsion is possible because I don't believe space or the 4th dimension folds the way peopel believe it to.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The thing is, these people aren't just people. They're physicists. Like Kirovman. That makes them cleverer.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[short recoil]

AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i promised myself i would go to bed before midnight, dosn't look like much chance of that now i have to go on one of my research crusades across the internet.
Thanks.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Buy New Scientist, it's the quickest way!

-Angry Lawyer

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Difficult to sense the sarcasm there (if it exists),
but I can tell you for sure one thing that does not exist.

FTL travel.

Everything anyone has right now is speculation and speculation that has been accepted as theory because it is accompanied by cute arithmatic.

Generating a power source alone is infeasable. But say we have that. Say we are using the Alcubierre drive. Seems simple enough. All you have to do is manifest a gravity bubble around your ship, and it will slide along the fabric of the universe like soap on a wet tile floor sans extreme tidal forces.

"Lieutenant Johnson, what is our speed?"
"We seem to be in constant freefall, sir, but in relation to the space within our conveniently ship-sized bubble, we aren't moving."
"ETA?"
"Inconclusive data, sir, estimation is unpossible. The bubble is skewing our scans and we can't make out all the weird shapes of light."
"Cut the engines. Check our current position"
"Sir we seem to be in the middle of nowhere, nothing is familiar, and don't know where Earth is, but it appears we caught up to some 1950s radio transmissions."

FTLFTW.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Well, the whole thing with the Hyperdrive crap isn't about moving faster than light, but figuring out how to make distances shorter.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Well, the whole thing with the Hyperdrive crap isn't about moving faster than light, but figuring out how to make distances shorter.

-Angry Lawyer

In effect bending the fabric of spacetime, which is in essence merely gravitational and magnetic forces aka the 4th dimension.

To me it seems the universe would appear to be stretching for you in the cockpit of that cruiser, but from outside, I think it is you whom would be stretching your being across space.

What these people are proposing is nothing more than glorified Super Mario warp pipes.
Go in one end, pop out the other with no travel time or measurable actual distance covered.
And what's more poppycock is they intend to do it without an exit pipe.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

We already HAVE a fourth dumension. It's called time!

Interesting article, anyways. If it works, space exploration improves a hundredfold.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

We already HAVE a fourth dumension. It's called time!

Interesting article, anyways. If it works, space exploration improves a hundredfold.

-Angry Lawyer

Spacetime. Supposedly it is connected with clock time, but Einstein viewed spacetime as the thing that happens and changes when massive objects exert causality of some sort and creates a platform or set of rules massive ojects follow whilst "interacting".
Time time, aka clock time is an external variable of measurement supposedly alterable from pov through extreme causation, generally changing with relative speed cross the spacetime fabric, aka fourth dimension.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Damnit, I need Kirovman back because I'm too drunk to fight back.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Dude if I'm wrong about anything just say "Hey dude, you are wrong about something."
And I'll be like "Ok I just read a lot of Wiki I don't actually study this crap."

But one time I opened up a Wiki page on something like dark energy, and just openend a new tab for every uncertain term I ran across, and ended up reading for like 16 hours through all the pages.

I think the last one had something to do with that Chinese beauty ritual where parents crushed the feet of their girls.
I don't remember how I got there from dark matter but man it's interesting stuff.
---

Here I did a quick search.
A quick blurb from Wiki:

"In 4D the non-trivial subspaces are lines, planes and hyperplanes, all through the origin. Each line through the origin has an orthogonal complement, which is a hyperplane through the origin, and vice versa. Each plane through the origin has a orthogonal complement, which is also a plane through the origin."

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Fine... YOU'RE WRONG!

Actually, you're partly right, but a little wrong, but I'm not in a state to say why.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Bait]

Fine... YOU'RE WRONG!

Actually, you're partly right, but a little wrong, but I'm not in a state to say why.

-Angry Lawyer

For God's sakes, it is Tuesday night.

Just so this post isn't totally useless: What kind of applications would we use with such technology anyways? Say we get to travel to super far distant planets, how would we be able to communicate with mother earth?

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Lemme try to argue against me for you. I love a good debate.

Are you disagreeing with the 1)fabrical cause and effect 4D concept or with 2)spacetime being an effect of gravity and that's what hyperdrive does thing?

how would we be able to communicate with mother earth?

Anticipate one of two things happening.
-Nothing changes, and communication stays impossible at that distance due to radio/micro/whatever waves are relatively slow for sush distances.

-Space bending is implicated into communications and channels are devoted to sending /whatever waves.

I imagine if it's not possible to send pure data through a space bend a small data carrying module would be used.

 

[Ikerous]

Could i use this to teleport myself to someone's house?

 

[clarky003]

Wow I cant believe new scientist included that, but thats exactley what bearden says they have been experimenting with..

Transforming EM energy into gravitational energy.. by using its B(3) component which is its longitudinal component or standing wave function if you want to get technical.

In Heim's view of space and time, this limitation disappears. He claimed it is possible to convert electromagnetic energy into gravitational and back again, and speculated that a rotating magnetic field could reduce the influence of gravity on a spacecraft enough for it to take off.

Simply its Tesla's holy grail, you can also transmit electricity wirelessly using the methodology. To put it in leman's terms the findings go like this...

The energy needed already exist's in the fabric of space and time, using the more fundemental b(3) field allows you to back engineer visible wave forms and their interface with vacuum, which is a low energy way of teasing useable energy out of vacuum and manipulating it in vacuum state, then by doing that it creates upset / imbalance in natural vacuum energy flow from 4 space into 3 space which gives you your warping of 3 space.

So project these fields out into the vacuum using certain geometry and you can manouver a bubble containing normal space time which contains your craft, without actually using physical propellant. The crafts local position would change in space relative to the environment, but it would remain stationary inside the field allowing no inertial effect's and ridiculous speeds that would not be restricted by light.

People constantly argue you need more energy to get more out, well thats a flawed concept when your working with 4 dimension's (trying to apply a 3D concept to 4D wont work), because matter and all energy forms get their energy freely from vacuum at the core of it all anyway, the origin of all energy is space time (what suspectedly created the big bang and continues to maintain our universe today). Since we often only consider real energy as 3 dimensional (observable) energy its easy to get confused where its all origionating from, which is the key to it all.

Fusion is a blatant natural example of an imbalance in space time curvature, more visible energy is coming out of vacuum than what is going into making it, the difference being is fusion is forceful, and doesnt use precision controlled higher symmetry fields to manipulate the interface between vacuum and 3 space, which we may beable to do.

Heim's is talking about using the Higher symmetry models and methods Bearden talks about, standing waves, and the B(3) component of the photon to change the interface of energy between vacuum and 3 space... creating space time curvature which would generate a warp bubble/field using the right geometry.

For the extreme skeptic's Even if you still think this is Sci Fi, it's not. What do you think star trek concept's are based on? random idea's? no, they are based on real theoretical work.

It just so happen's we are beginning to discover the missing links between gravity and EM, for example... electricity pumped into a large capacitor creates propulsion, 1/3 of the force developed is unexplainable using ionic wind's,.. so you have to infer natural space time curvature is being developed.. showing a link between electricity and gravity, its all in the litrature, the Bi field Brown effect.

the B(3) field of the photon is real, vacuum has long since been proven to be active, not inert as assumed in classical theory, its clear vacuum is active all you have to do is look at the casimir effect.

Within the concept you can transmit anything, .. ie transmitting matter as information becomes possible.. replication, using higher symmetry code to replicate object's, store object's in vacuum.. etc, and transport people without actually moving them, abundance of electricity, energetic healing technique's and so forth.

“A spinning ring and a strong magnetic field could produce a repulsive anti-gravity force”

http://stream.osen.org/aag/Searl-340kbps.wmv

 

[Angry Lawyer]

They stole your ideas, Clarky. You know they've been reading your posts.

As for the Star Trek concept, the Warp Drive they used was originally factually baseless, until the theory for that space-scrunging drive appeared, then they just used that to explain it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[dream431ca]

In Heim's view of space and time, this limitation disappears. He claimed it is possible to convert electromagnetic energy into gravitational and back again, and speculated that a rotating magnetic field could reduce the influence of gravity on a spacecraft enough for it to take off.

Sorry, that's false. Electromagnetism and gravity are 2 totally different forces and cannot be created from one another.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Sorry, that's false. Electromagnetism and gravity are 2 totally different forces and cannot be created from one another.

Scientists are trying to find a way to Unify these two forces

 

[clarky003]

EM and gravity are only found naturally in and around mass, (curved space time)

Seeing as they always seem to co-exist around mass, its clear they are somehow linked together. Both forces are observably different but stem from the same thing (mass) you need one for the other to be present naturally. So its most likely that it is not false, it's just science's current paradigm isnt able to understand the link, because quite simply the current model's used cant be unified as they are, and dont include the higher symmetry system and phenomena.

 

[The Mullinator]

I hate resurecting old threads but this really didn't need a new thread of it's own:
http://www.hpcc-space.com/publications/documents/aiaa2004-3700-a4.pdf

It's a proper scientific paper detailing the physics. This is really only meant for the hardcore here since it includes a lot of very complicated mathematics.

 

[clarky003]

Muchas gracias !

edit: lots of talk about vacuum, virtual potential / scalar field potential as I expected, they just need the experiments to manipulate it, and on page 23 they admit the quantum and classical models are not enough to predict certain factor's... which means they need a working unified field theory.

 

[dream431ca]

Muchas gracias !

edit: lots of talk about vacuum, virtual potential / scalar field potential as I expected, they just need the experiments to manipulate it, and on page 23 they admit the quantum and classical models are not enough to predict certain factor's... which means they need a working unified field theory.

What do you mean by vacuum?? it's very...weird...I thought science was about common sense, not pulling something out of thin air.

 

[JoeCLawrence]

AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i promised myself i would go to bed before midnight, dosn't look like much chance of that now i have to go on one of my research crusades across the internet.
Thanks.

Seems like the same thing just happened right here. Sounds cool. But even so, Star Trek/Wars style Empires and Federations would still be out of the question. And even Firefly style ones seem pretty out there. Sorry, Glirk!

 

[Dekstar]

Muchas gracias !

edit: lots of talk about vacuum, virtual potential / scalar field potential as I expected, they just need the experiments to manipulate it, and on page 23 they admit the quantum and classical models are not enough to predict certain factor's... which means they need a working unified field theory.

They need one? Does that mean that they can't start working on a working model (Since they must have some physical proof if the theory can't be explained) until they get a unified theory?

 

[clarky003]

Seems like the same thing just happened right here. Sounds cool. But even so, Star Trek/Wars style Empires and Federations would still be out of the question. And even Firefly style ones seem pretty out there. Sorry, Glirk!

Yes , because youve searched the galaxy, found all the M class planets, and know they are all void of intelligent life!

Yes they do need an 'engineerable' unified field theory, the present models are either partly incorrect or just arnt thorough enough, Aslong as scientist's recognise that these problems are probably because Lorentz symmetrised maxwells equations, effectively ignoring vacuum (done mainly because they didnt have the computing power to calculate the complex origional equation's) we can correct the intial mistake and use Maxwells origional paper and use his prediciton of broken symmetry, O(3) electrodynamics may hold a practical solution.

When present models dont work and cant be modified without contradictions, then new models need to be used. origional electrodynamics is null and void from the get go, because it doesnt compilment General relativity, the origional model doesnt apply conditions of the earth as an area curved space time, which is a total contradiction.

Classical theory is null and void too because it considers all matter to be arbitrary forcefields in space with no source, totally ignoring the presence of vaccum.

Quantum is nearly there, but it cant quite unify with GR, because curved space time relies on an active vacuum space time, and the scalar potential or virtual particle isnt considered real in quantum. So therefore vacuum is mostly ignored as not having any real effect on the process.

In O(3) electrodynamics, the scalar potential is real and is a precursor to the existance of matter.. a prestate before the energy becomes physical... like a sub matrix.. this totally compliments GR, as it is now considered real it may be possible to reverse engineer a physical EM wave to manipulate its virtual precursory element, which can be used to work within vacuum, manipulating the base fundementals will have direct physical consequences from the inside out, so you can mess around with mass and susequently EM, and gravity, both being a result of mass.

I thought science was about common sense, not pulling something out of thin air.

The whole reason is because science is very physical, because simply.. we are physical beings. It's hard to contemplate anything coming out of thin air, but matter did. We clearly take it for granted thinking its normal and has always been here... anything beyond physical we have difficulty comprehending, but as particle physics and quatum physics are expanding, they are hitting barrier's of weirdness.. where you cant figure out where the energy is coming from without a Vacuum. The energy that creates all matter must be coming from somewhere, its our understanding of energy that seems to confuse us.. matter is energy.. just not directly physically usable in an Electromagnetic sense (using it for direct physical work), thats why i had difficulty understand to start with.. I was fed like everyone ideas that the main definition of energy is say a battery's input creating visible electrical flow, but that electrical flows fundemental vacuum origin is its actual energy source which determines its existance.

The Casimir effect cant be explained without the presence of vacuum, its natural, the reason its confusing is because we are confused under the presnt physically focused paradigm, and subsequently have developed contradicting models, its still science, its just getting way advanced. We are seeing indications of a universe where all the energy input needed to create what we see, hear, touch, and feel is invisible but required to logically explain the existance of matter, so something is definately there beyond the physical or none of this would be possible. Otherwise you can uphold the confusing idea that everything came from nowhere which doesnt really make a lick of sense.