4th dimenison isn't time.

I never thought it was time.

And I hope this thread doesn't evolve into another TheSomeone technical debate. Which it shouldn't, because I don't think anyone argues that the 4th dimension is time.
 
None of my threads should have turned into debates, they presented clear scientific and mathematical facts.

:smoking:
 
But really, what is time but a constraint devised by man?
 
You have been reading too much Kurt Vonnegut.

Time is currently one of the few fundamental quantities (=quantity which can not be defined via other quantities because there is nothing more fundamental known at present). Thus, similar to definition of other fundamental quantities (like space and mass), time is defined via measurement. Currently, the standard time interval (called conventional second, or simply second) is defined as 9 192 631 770 oscillations of a hyperfine transition in the 133caesium (Cs) atom.
Click to expand...

Prior to Albert Einstein's relativistic physics, time and space had been treated as distinct dimensions; Einstein linked time and space into spacetime. He said that time was basically what a clock reads; the clock can be any action or change, like the movement of the sun. Einstein showed that people traveling at different speeds will measure different times for events and different distances between objects, though these differences are minute unless one is traveling at a speed close to that of light. Many subatomic particles exist for only a fixed fraction of a second in a lab relatively at rest, but some that travel close to the speed of light can be measured to travel further and survive longer than expected (a photon is one example).
Click to expand...
 
sooooo, who's gonna take us all to the fourth demension for a party?
I kinda wanna go....
We can bring spaghetti monster along.
 
sinkoman said:
But really, what is time but a constraint devised by man?
Click to expand...

The way we measure time as it passes maybe, but time itself was not created by man.
 
TheSomeone said:
You have been reading too much Kurt Vonnegut.
Click to expand...

Haha! Vonnegut is like, my all time favorite writer!

But really, I don't see how what you posted outlines time as a definable substance and/or dimension.

Really, what IS time? You could define it as the phase between two distinct oscillations, but really, WHAT is time? That doesn't tell you anything but that time is a space between to happenings. Is that definable at all?

And yes yes yes, I know that whole Einstein thinga bout turning on a flashlight in a train traveling the speed of light.

Sainku said:
The way we measure time as it passes maybe, but time itself was not created by man.
Click to expand...

But is that not time? Just a measurement between two oscillations or events?
 
Time is a fourth dimention. In geometry, which is what your link was referring to, no the fourth dimention is usually not time. But in geometry, the first three dimentions aren't strictly height, width, and depth, either.

Geometry is a pure math, and therefore doesn't strictly have anything to do with the physical world. It just so happens that the physical world seems to have three spatial dimentions that have a lot in common with three-dimentional geometry. If you add more dimentions to a geometric space, you lose your ability to project it into the three spatial dimentions of the real world, and the real world dimention of time is sometimes used as if it were another spatial dimention.

(height, width, depth, time) is indeed a four-dimentional space. (At least, it seems to be 4d locally. Some physicists are speculating otherwise globally.) If you accept that (height, width, depth) is a three-dimentional space, then denying that time is another dimention is basically asserting that by going sideways, up, down, forwards and backwards, you can travel to any arbitrary point in time. However 4d geometry isn't natural to think about in terms of time. Many other 4d spaces exist in theory. Economists often use spaces with a dimention for each product in a market with hypercurves representing cost or indifference. Mathematicians even use infinite dimentional spaces. Heck, the space of all real-valued functions is infinite dimentional.
 
My point about the Einstein thing is that if time and space are directly corrolated, and you are existing in space, then time is very much concrete.
 
TheSomeone said:
My point about the Einstein thing is that if time and space are directly corrolated, and you are existing in space, then time is very much concrete.
Click to expand...

So much concrete that you could manipulate it, much like you manipulate matter?

See what i'm saying.

If indeed, time IS (and i'm not arguing that it isn't, i'm just trying to show why I believe it isn't), then what drove man to invent measurements of time?

Really, how would one know of the existence of this dimension aside from viewing change over time?

And now you say that time is matter. Is time matter, or a dimension?

WHAT is time?

EDIT:

Wikipedia said:
The Oxford English Dictionary defines time as "the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future, regarded as a whole."

Another standard dictionary definition is "a nonspatial linear continuum wherein events occur in an apparently irreversible order."
Click to expand...

If that is indeed true, then time does not "exist" in the litteral sense, but is rather just a creation of man to document events.

WHAT THE **** IS TIME???
 
TheSomeone said:
My point about the Einstein thing is that if time and space are directly corrolated, and you are existing in space, then time is very much concrete.
Click to expand...
Time is a temporal, not a spatial dimension. And the fourth dimension in geometry is very different from the fourth dimension in physics.
 
sinkoman said:
So much concrete that you could manipulate it, much like you manipulate matter?

See what i'm saying.

If indeed, time IS (and i'm not arguing that it isn't, i'm just trying to show why I believe it isn't), then what drove man to invent measurements of time?

Really, how would one know of the existence of this dimension aside from viewing change over time?

And now you say that time is matter. Is time matter, or a dimension?

WHAT is time?

EDIT:



If that is indeed true, then time does not "exist" in the litteral sense, but is rather just a creation of man to document events.

WHAT THE **** IS TIME???
Click to expand...

Man created measurements of time to schedule his life. There were two parts of his life, light and dark, night and day. So these put together would be one day. Seems logical.
This is what has been an answer to the Bible thing where God created the universe in seven days. No one can say wow that is way too short of time because no one knows how God measures his time. So then time has no real measurement but what is making this go by. What is the cause... The beginning... What came first God or time?... How could God exist in no time... How could time exist with no start... (Brain explodes)
 
JellyWorld said:
Time is a temporal, not a spatial dimension. And the fourth dimension in geometry is very different from the fourth dimension in physics.
Click to expand...

I never said otherwise.
 
madog said:
Man created measurements of time to schedule his life. There were two parts of his life, light and dark, night and day. So these put together would be one day. Seems logical.
This is what has been an answer to the Bible thing where God created the universe in seven days. No one can say wow that is way too short of time because no one knows how God measures his time. So then time has no real measurement but what is making this go by. What is the cause... The beginning... What came first God or time?... How could God exist in no time... How could time exist with no start... (Brain explodes)
Click to expand...

What in gods name are you talking about?

I posed the question, WHAT is time.

You're going on about god creating the universe.
 
madog said:
No one can say wow that is way too short of time because no one knows how God measures his time.
Click to expand...
:LOL: People don't argue against it because it's only seven days... unless they're stupid. Seriously, if you assume that a being is omnipotent then you must also assume that it can do anything... which includes making an entire universe snap into existence instantaneously. The question then becomes "Why did it take Him so ****ing long?"

-Angry Lawyer
 
The Fourth Dimensoin is time, just it's not a a spacial dimension.
To meet someone somewhere in the universe you need four co-ordinates.

x,y,z co-ordinates and the time.
 
I dont belive in time anyway, i mean, we measure it by the time our planet rotates around the sun...but what if we are somewhere in another solar system, time would be messed up...its just a bunch of planets rotating, its not a "thing", its just a measurement. When people talk about time stopping, they have to stop earth from spinning in other words, and why would that make everything on earth still, it would make everything fly off to space, to stop time you have to stop all planets movement in space.

Time as a forth dimentions...pfft
 
PFT! Cant draw a 4th dimension?!! (attachment)

In all seriousness though, I always thought time was the fourth because it kinda made sense to me :\

In computing when we database minging and such like its helpfull it think of 4d and 5d as colours and opacitys, but hey, that just me :)
 

Attachments

  • untitled.JPG
    untitled.JPG
    8.2 KB · Views: 123
Ahhh this brings back the memories of reading "A Wrinkle in Time".
 
TheSomeone said:
you fockah.


This misconception arises from the fact that time is often used to represent the fourth dimension in graphs and such.

But really the fourth dimension is an inconceivable direction.

http://tetraspace.alkaline.org/introduction.htm
Click to expand...
1. The "you fockah" is unnecessary.

2. I think the misconception comes from HG Well's "The Time Machine".
 
Misconception? There is no way to prove the crap here, so for the time being I'll believe Einstein thank-you-very-much.
 
vegeta897 said:
And I hope this thread doesn't evolve into another TheSomeone technical debate. Which it shouldn't, because I don't think anyone argues that the 4th dimension is time.
Click to expand...

Lock and bail! LOCK AND BAIL!!
 
pomegranate said:
Lock and bail! LOCK AND BAIL!!
Click to expand...

God, shut up.

That's not even funny, it's stupid.

There's an interesting, legit topic/debate going on here, and you just have to bring the spam in.

Please, stay on topic.
 
99.vikram said:
Misconception? There is no way to prove the crap here, so for the time being I'll believe Einstein thank-you-very-much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well personally I choose not to believe in Einstein's theory of relativity. According to Einstein time and matter are related and therefore both can be manipulated. I just can't believe that time can be altered distorted whatever (even by a black hole), simply because time does not exist, it would have to exist physically in order to be altered now wouldn't it? Besides, Einstein has proven his theory only theoretically, until someone can demonstrate practically that it's true I'll keep my opinion.
 
sinkoman said:
There's an interesting, legit topic/debate going on here, and you just have to bring the spam in.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. It's another meaningless debate where people argue semantics rather than the actual topic they like to think they're talking about, as we've seen many times before in threads started by this pretentious little man who thinks he's an amazing intellect, to the bemusement of everyone else. It always goes the same way when he starts a thread with some supposedly insightful proposition/question. Hence my 'spam' response. So you shut up, please.
 
pomegranate said:
No, it's not. It's another meaningless debate where people argue semantics rather than the actual topic they like to think they're talking about, as we've seen many times before in threads started by this pretentious little man who thinks he's an amazing intellect, to the bemusement of everyone else. It always goes the same way when he starts a thread with some supposedly insightful proposition/question. Hence my 'spam' response. So you shut up, please.
Click to expand...

You are a very happy person aren't you.
 
pomegranate said:
No, it's not. It's another meaningless debate where people argue semantics rather than the actual topic they like to think they're talking about, as we've seen many times before in threads started by this pretentious little man who thinks he's an amazing intellect, to the bemusement of everyone else. It always goes the same way when he starts a thread with some supposedly insightful proposition/question. Hence my 'spam' response. So you shut up, please.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's funny how these threads get started and go on forever without anyone actually supporting their assertions or often even clarifying what the question is asking.
 
The point isn't the forth dimension is time or not.

The real issue is : Is time a dimension, which begs us to debate -
What is a dimension? A co-ordinate? If so then time indeed is one. It coulld be the 2nd dimension or the 3rd or even the 11th. It is however not a spacial dimension.
 
Solaris said:
The point isn't the forth dimension is time or not.

The real issue is : Is time a dimension, which begs us to debate -
What is a dimension? A co-ordinate? If so then time indeed is one. It coulld be the 2nd dimension or the 3rd or even the 11th. It is however not a spacial dimension.
Click to expand...

Some people could consider another dimension as a parallel universe, which would be connected to time. Right now, people associate a dimension with co-ordinates.
 
dream431ca said:
Some people could consider another dimension as a parallel universe, which would be connected to time. Right now, people associate a dimension with co-ordinates.
Click to expand...
I don't think you know what a dimension is.
How can a??....Dimension??.....Different!?! Hard to word that up.
 
Solaris, you've never heard of what scifi writers call an alternate dimension? :p

I stand by time being a dimension.

Say you had a square, a 2-dimensional figure. Now imagine you discovered the third dimension, and discovered that your square varied in size over that third dimension -- it get smaller until it disappears along this new measurement. This would produce a pyramid, a 3-dimensional figure.

Now imagine you discovered time as your fourth dimension, and let's say for argument's sake that you could observe time as freely as the other three dimensions, and you saw that the pyramid--I dunno--grows or changes shape in the other three dimensions in some way over time. There's no way to represent this statically, obviously. This is what I would call a 4-dimensional figure.
 
Thats not a different reality though, just a different time :/
 
Nature doesn't have a numbered list of dimensions.

Time is the 4th dimension, simply because that's what we've defined it as.
 
Solaris said:
Thats not a different reality though, just a different time :/
Click to expand...
That first remark was just an aside, the explanation was just a demonstration of time as a dimension (in the measurable sense)

I guess what it all boils down to is whether the question is

is time THE 4th dimension
or
could time be A 4th dimension

It's impossible for us to imagine swapping time for x, y, or z the way we can switch around x, y, and z themselves (when we are drawing a figure on paper). So spatially, I say time cannot be the 4th dimension; in fact, I posit that there is no 4th dimension in this sense.

Is time something we can use as a 4th dimension? That is what I argued in my previous post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Krynn72
You guys, what the **** is up.
Replies
11
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
HL2.NET HORROR SLAP
Replies
7
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
Chris D
Forum update
Replies
8
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
TechnoHippyChic
If you post it, they will come...
2
Replies
63
Views
6K
TechnoHippyChic
TechnoHippyChic
bbson john
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum!
Replies
11
Views
6K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
Back
Top