A project on Keyboard Mouse vs GamePad and Number of Players!

[Asuka]

So ya, does anyone have saved sources/interviews on FPS game mechanics PC vs Console. I need proof on how console games are designed with less of a vertical focus and more horizontal. As well as how the recoil is easier and auto aim mechanics.

This isn't a flame war I'm trying to prove something.

A friend of mine who is a hardcore console gamer thinks. Its easier to play with mouse and keyboard and harder to play with a controller. In the sense that its "Easy" and "noob" to play on the PC and HARDCORE to play on the console.

I love my console fps games but i just need to PROVE this is simple wrong.

I need to prove to this person why Mouse and Keyboard > then controller for FPS.

I need developer interviews video and written.

I need to prove that there is a "limit" to the skill you can obtain with a controller and that the keyboard and mouse are limitless.

Reasons:
Sources:
Mechanics:
Level Design:
Recoil:


I usually save interesting interviews and sources like this but my favorites have recently been deleted and searching for old sources like time takes a very long time. So all the help i can get is appreciated.

I also need 100% legit NPD/Numbers on player base Console Vs PC.

This includes online and offline for both sides.

If there are 18 million 360s and 10 million PS3's and 24 million wii's i need proof in how many PC Gamers are clocked in.

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Sources on Numbers:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/878/878144p1.html
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10711&Itemid=2
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/682760/NPD_To_Track_Online_Games.html
http://nexgenwars.com/
http://www.vgchartz.com/
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53403

Source on Gameplay:


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Stats.

PC:

255 million new PCs Sold Last Year (2007)?
260 Million Worldwide (Online PC Gamers) by Gartner Group
15 Million Steam users
10 Million WOW users

Consoles:

Nintendo Wii - 28.18M Units Sold
Xbox 360 - 19.48M Units Sold
Playstation 3 - 13.77M Units Sold
Nintendo DS - 74.69M Units Sold
PSP - 35.82M Units Sold

 

[Acepilotf14]

He's completely right.
But it's not hardcore.

 

[Eejit]

It is harder to use a controller, but the keyboard and mouse setup has a higher skill 'cap'.

Tried to find some numbers on console vs pc shooters but it's kinda hard when the picture is muddied by pc players downloading the game. (be it legitmate or illegal).

 

[Acepilotf14]

Really, there's no specific which is better, although to new players,a mouse and keyboard gives slightly better aiming. Through years of practice, a person with a controller could be better, technically. It really depends on the person's skill.

 

[Gray Fox]

The only way his friends statement holds true is if pc games were identical to console
games, with just a different control scheme. But like Asuka said they aren't. IMO you're
making it way to difficult on yourself. There are PC shooters which you can play with a
controller, like Crysis for example. Let him play that with a controller.
Although TBH he sounds like an idiot, so why bother having him as a friend.

edit: Halo 2 has controller support, and bioshock also, but I think bioshock changes the difficulty.

 

[AiM]

OP What you're asking is quite a lot of data for a pretty trivial question. Accuracy-wise, the Mouse and Keyboard is essentially arming the user with a sniper rifle whereas the console is giving you an Uzi. They both require a certain amount of skill to master but they should be judged independent of each other. But when push comes to shove, the Mouse and Keyboard user will virtually always beat the console user if they're equal-skill level.

Although one game does come to mind, I believe it was released for the 360 and PC (forgot the name unfortunately). One of the supposedly highlight of the game was that PC users would fight with / against 360 players. However, the dev's "balanced" this out by applying a sort of aiming-penalty to PC users that the 360 players didn't have.

 

[Gray Fox]

Shadowrun
Good thinking there Aim.

 

[Evo]

Well... he's basically right. The shitty controls that console shooters tend to have do make the game more challenging; in fact, things like auto-aim and "snap-to-target" buttons exist solely to make the game bearable. If a console shooter didn't have any sort of auto-aim whatsoever, it'd be a nightmare to play.

Speaking of aiming penalties, I'm pretty sure that the reason they opted out of cross-platform play for Halo 2 on the PC was precisely because in all their testing, the PC users would completely decimate the console users, leading to a completely imbalanced (and not very fun) experience.

^^ so true =]

On the statistics of PC/console players...well good luck with that one! You ain't gonna have much luck finding hard statistics on PC gamers as everything is so different with Steam/Impulse/Gamers Gate etc. and the fact that not every PC sold is going to be gamed on. Good luck with that!

 

[CyberPitz]

The fact they put an aiming penalty kind of proves a point in itself, imo...

 

[Warbie]

I need to prove to this person why Mouse and Keyboard > then controller for FPS.

You won't be able to prove this as neither is better - they're just good at different things.

Look at it this way - Golden Eye would have been utter shite with a mouse and keyboard and Halo was considerably better with a pad. On the flip side, Q3 was terrible with a pad and sublime with m&k. The same is true of game like RTCW and prety much anything else that focusses on twitch aiming and fast gameplay.

 

[PvtRyan]

It's hardcore to play a game using a controller like it's hardcore to compete in the Olympic sprint with a wooden leg and a severe case of polio.

 

[Asuka]

By harder i mean this.

Its Harder to play on a keyboard and mouse because you have:

More options
More Buttons
More Accuracy
More functionality
More customization
There is no limit to how good someone can get

Its easier on a Game pad because you have:

Less options
Less buttons
Barely any customization
There is a limit to how much you can do there for a skill limit.


Point being, its harder to "aim" on a console but the games give a certain push to players. Which make it easier to play but less "fun" or "functional" as a PC..

For example a game like F.E.A.R you can Shoot a guy, slow time down throw a nade, change weapons mid air, shoot another guy, bring time back to normal, slide, right before a kill throw a nade to the side, kill the guy in front then watch the guy on side explode. Its what made FEAR great. Now on the game pad its virtually impossible to do this.

Or the Crysis mechanic. Speed, Power jump, shotgun to the face, Speed behind someone and blast his face, cloak move behind a car, jump run power jump. ALL while shooting and reloading and changing weapons. Its HARD to do and impossible on a gamepad.

Point:

Because you can do this doesn't make it easier. You have the option to become this good and pull off moves like this. HARD moves. On the console its "Generally" easier because its simple, and there simply isn't as much to do. There for its grab and play. Rather on the mouse/keyboard you learn and learn and learn and keep adding to what you can do. Limitless potential in speed, accuracy, movement and game mechanics.

On a game pad you have to let go of certain buttons to press other buttons that doesn't make using the game pad harder its simply a limit.

If you bring it down to rock bottom basics. Its.

Harder to aim on a game pad
Easier to aim on a Keyboard and mouse

Bring that 1 step further.

and that easy becomes hard.

Because:

You add more challenges. Vertical/horizontal games mechanics. Accuracy skill, Recoil control, reflex's and simultaneous event's and so on.

On the game pad.

The Vertical is rare.
Accuracy is limited by speed of analog
Recoil is almost none existent.
Reflex is there but limited by speed of analog
Simultaneous events are limited due to having to let go of certain keys.

This is what makes using the game pad easier, and that's not a bad thing. I love my PS3/360 controllers for most games but saying they are "harder" simply because of the one point in aim is not valid once you consider the entire game.

I'm looking for interviews when developed talking about the changes in recoil and enemy placement. As well as the vertical game mechanics. I remember Gears of War had a big thing on vertical enemies.

About the numbers i know we cant find 100% fact because NPD has just NOW started tracking SOME online sales and revenue. But whatever we can find. Lets gather all information here on this subject. ANYTHING you can find. This is a very interesting project for me. Its turned into something more then a conversation/argument i had with a friend.

EDIT
PS

Can a mod change the title to something more presentable or meaningful. Was in a rush for quick info. Now this is a true project.

 

[ailevation]

hmm interesting. i've tried Battlefield: Bad Company demo for both, PS3 and Xbox 360 to see which one plays better and looks better on either. I like the DS3 controller better than the 360's and the graphics are on the same level for both, but i got the final release for 360 due to the multiplayer being far superior on Live.

Now this makes me want to buy COD4 for PC to compare against the 360's controls... i dunno... should I, for the sake of this thread!?

 

[Asuka]

hmm interesting. i've tried Battlefield: Bad Company demo for both, PS3 and Xbox 360 to see which one plays better and looks better on either. I like the DS3 controller better than the 360's and the graphics are on the same level for both, but i got the final release for 360 due to the multiplayer being far superior on Live.

Now this makes me want to buy COD4 for PC to compare against the 360's controls... i dunno... should I, for the sake of this thread!?

That's what started this btw. The comparison of COD4. My friend has never played any games on the PC. We were playing COD4 on the PS3 when it all started.

 

[CyberPitz]

hmm interesting. i've tried Battlefield: Bad Company demo for both, PS3 and Xbox 360 to see which one plays better and looks better on either. I like the DS3 controller better than the 360's and the graphics are on the same level for both, but i got the final release for 360 due to the multiplayer being far superior on Live.

Now this makes me want to buy COD4 for PC to compare against the 360's controls... i dunno... should I, for the sake of this thread!?

Well, the MP is fun as hell on the PC