All of this... over shadows?

[DimitriPopov]

All of this D3 vs HL2 is over shadows. The only seperating feature of the engines. Shadows and lights. Seriously.


Since ive seen MANY people try to say D3 is better. Im going to post some opinions of mine on the matter.


Story: HL2

Lightng: D3 (or HL2, its a different mood). Hell lighting barely matters

Feeling Music: D3, if youve ever played the Alpha , the bassline is awsome , like a horror movie youre playing.

Enemies: HL2 , I can only take soo much of the same monster jumping at me.

Physics and Interactivity: HL2

Weapons: HL2 (D3s are generic)

MODable: HL2 definetly

Multiplayer out-of-the-box: HL2 def , probably include TF2 or better CS2.

Shit your pants factor: D3




Thats all I can think of , feel free to post your rebutals , mature only plz thnx. Good to be back.

 

[The Mullinator]

Both games will be great, it seems to be something that alot of people just don't understand. I will buy both since each has their advantages and disadvantages. This list shows the reasons why I will be getting both games.

 

[Radeon]

Why do we even have to talk about this over and over again, i'm getting so sick of all this fighting betwin people on what game is the best, what game looks best, etc etc etc etc......

It's just taking up useles space on teh forums imo.

 

[scrayN]

The D3 Storyline.. omg.. the worst harry potter shit i've ever seen... "but something went wrong".. yeah, your sister didnt get pms that month :O

Well.. excuse me while i go take a huge crap...

 

[Nostradamus]

i do beleive that the lightning is very important..hellp, i would have loved if HL2 had such nice lightning..imagine making a real sneaking game..you cant make that with hl2..if you put a light ina room..the the whole room is pretty much lighted up...not very easy to make pitch dark areas in HL.. and try making a character disapear into the shadows...would be pretty damn hard, as far as i know..
but HL2 is gonna r0x0rz y0rz b0x0rz

 

[SnowBall]

For some reason I suddenly started to like DOOM3. I dont think it will stand up to Half-Life 2, but It does look like it will be a blast! I need a game thats gonan scare the poo out of me anyways.

 

[Peks]

hl2 wont ship with either cs2 or tf2 or dod2 or anything else 2

 

[Mac]

from what ive heard, cs2, tf2, dod, etc will be in seperate boxes much later.... think about it.. more money!!

 

[kelisis]

Yeah, this is getting old. Look, everyone knows that both games will rock. So, why keep doing this vs thing when you can post on forums and talk about the cool things of both games. In this instance being Halflife 2 and Doom 3. Now, if you want my thoughts in the matter, I believe Halflife 2 will be better, but I am still going to by both games. :cheers:

 

[Guest]

this is.
yes IS. The second oldest thread on this board.

amazing.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Time is ripe for another D3 vs. HL2 thread again it seems. I can't wait till somebody posts "Is Alyx black?" - we haven't seen those in a while.

 

[Guest]

alright i'll get right on that

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Quotidiansucces
alright i'll get right on that

Please don't I was only kidding.

 

[Prince of China]

Alyx is black, but she looks Asian...
Tiger Woods used the word(on MadTV) Caublasian...

 

[Curator]

I'm sure both games will be amazing. As a personal opinion, HL2 appeals to me more because of it's intricate storyline, moddibility, and general layout/design.

 

[subs]

no its blackanese.

 

[Guest]

but anyway.
DOOM III is going to be WAYYYYYY better

reasons

1. Hell is real half-life has fake made up worlds

2. Demons can kick your ass 2. Snarks are so gay and there name is rediculous

3. DOOM came before hl1 3. hl1 came after doom

4. doom kicks so much ass 4. hl1 kicked so much ass but did it later on.

5. doom had some ultra uber killer l33t ass weapon that nuked the **** out of everything
5. hl1 had .... snarks..

 

[Apos]

I don't get stuff like this. You award awards for categories that we don't even know about yet? All the NIN music and sounds are gone from D3, and we have yet to hear much of HL2's soundtrack, nor have we seen ANY of its multiplayer. We know next to nothing about the story of either game. It's just silly.

 

[Guest]

APOS, this thread is 'uber' old man.... we are discussing my post right above

 

[Apos]

DOOM III is going to be WAYYYYYY better

Actually, it sounds like you think DOOM1 is way better.

 

[Guest]

so?

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Quotidiansucces
but anyway.
DOOM III is going to be WAYYYYYY better

reasons

1. Hell is real half-life has fake made up worlds

There is no god! Prove me wrong

 

[Guest]

prove me wrong...

 

[Guest]

Well, I figured you would have moved past reasonable doubt when you picked your religion...

Anyways, this thread isnt going anywhere. Not that Im helping.

 

[Guest]

Story: HL2

We know too little of either story to make any real judgment. People make the mistake of assuming that because older iD games lacked an in-depth story that doom3 will be the same. The simple fact is that iD has never tried to do much with a story UNTIL now, and they are focusing on the doom3 story a great deal. We dont know enough at this point to make a judgment.

Lightng: D3 (or HL2, its a different mood). Hell lighting barely matters

Actually, lighting is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of how we precieve the game world. Since 3d games were invented they have tried to emulate reality, to be as real looking as possible with the power of the current hardware, and therefore as immersive as possible. In the real world, light defines what we see. Light defines the color of what we see, light defines the shape, value, texture, and form of what we see. Light is the defining factor on how we see the world. period. It is extreamly important to the progression of how realistic games look that we emulate how real lighting works. It is of the upmost impoirtance. Doom3 is a huge leap toward that.

Enemies: HL2 , I can only take soo much of the same monster jumping at me.

As opposed to the same alien jumping at you?

MODable: HL2 definetly

Doom3 is very much moddable. I dont see why source will be any easier to mod for.

Multiplayer out-of-the-box: HL2 def , probably include TF2 or better CS2.

We know nothing of hl2s multiplayer. Given how eager valve is to praise everything about their game, and given the fact that they are overly quite about the MP in their game, it seems as if they dont feel too good about it, so neither do i.

All the NIN music and sounds are gone from D3

Chris Vrenna was seen at quakecon hanging around the iD guys, which makes it reasonable to assume he will have a hand in the soundtrack. Chris Vrenna has worked with NIN in the past. Just something to ponder. Also, we dont know if Trent will have anything to do with doom3 or not. ONE nin fansite said he was no longer working on it, and since then iD nor Trent as denied or confirmed that. It should be treated as a rumor until they do.

 

[Guest]

what religion?

 

[Guest]

Well I assume you must have a religion when you defend the ideal of a god and hell, I guess you could just be a very open minded person.

 

[Guest]

it is possible. i havn't been able to prove to myself there isn't a god. but i don't agree with most religions, if not any. i don't believe you should have to go to church on sundays to keep a clean concious.... etc. etc. but a relation with god, seems to actually change your/my life. can i explain it? no. can't prove it wrong thou. but why would i take the side of saying it isnt' if i can't prove it wrong, when i have nothing to lose thinking that it is, cuase what if it is all true? i believe. so i'm saved. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Guest]

Bah, if Im ever god im going to make it really aparent that I exist. And I wont do a bunch of vague crap, only straight up miracles will do, like bringing people back to life (just more documented and provable).

 

[Guest]

well i mean, sopposivly he did that, but it no matter what time period you do it... documents will get lost destroyed distorted scewed and just generally ****ed over. i mean 'the bible' lists straight up miracles etc. that had other books written by different people (which is what the bible is made up of) and they all correlate.

but im not basing my ideals off just off the bible.. i prefer the studies of non-christian/religious scientist who set out to geologically prove the bible wrong and always fail.... that seems to interest me more

 

[Styloid]

Yeah, lighting is a big deal... you have to chose the right type of lighting
for your game. If HL2 chose to use the Doom3/CloakNT/Amp2 per-pixel dynamic lighting and shadows, it probably wouldn't be able to do a lot of the things that it can now and the game probably wouldn't look as natural as it does (it would look more like Doom3).

 

[Guest]

No, i didnt say doom3s lighting technology would go well with hl2, doom3s lighting is perfect for setting the mood doom3 is trying to set with the player. Hl2 isnt going for the same mood or the same type of gameplay. What i was saying was that the kind of lighting model that doom3 will introduce is a huge first step towards a lighting model in future games which will emulate how natural light works in the real world. Doom3 isnt there yet ofcorse, but because of doom3 we are a hell of a lot closer to it. When we do get there however, when we get to the point that game engines properly emulate how light works, there wont be anything that cant be achived with it. A game like hl2 would look a ton better with that engine, but it wont be around for quite some time now.

 

[Anwar]

Take a look at this screen of HL2... it doesn't even need to be a close look. Shadows matter a little bit you must admit that

http://www.halflifesource.com/images/screenshots/hl2/13.jpg

Tell me its not very easy to notice how they shadows appear for no reason in some places. and that shadows very close to each other are falling in different directions.

The building should have a shadow on the second floor... it doesn't
The tank in front of the building should have a shadow going the same direction of the building... it doesn't
The person next to the horse pole in the center should have shadows going in the same direction... they don't
The guys painting the sing have shadows... umm why? there is no visible light.


look at this one
http://www.halflifesource.com/images/screenshots/hl2/01.jpg
and this one
http://www.halflifesource.com/images/screenshots/hl2/16.jpg


The guns should have shadows... they don't


In this pic fires dont make shadows
http://www.halflifesource.com/images/screenshots/hl2/23.jpg

The fire is in front of the headcrab zombie guy... the shadows is in front too



I think the only reason people bring up doom3 >hl2 shadows is because there are so many examples where HL2 shadows are FUBAR.

p.s. I want to buy hl 2 this is in no way a bash. I know they will fix this before release


EDIT: Forgot there is also a problem in the vids that show shadows in doorways before people pass through them.

 

[Feath]

All of these are very old screenshots and they've had about 3 months at least to work on the shadows and stuff. And at one point Gabe said they were going to go back and address shadows.

Is the shadows-showing-through-walls problem to do with the sorting error that was mentioned do you think?

 

[Anwar]

Yeah they have had about 3 months but we dont know if they made any progress or not. Since they don't tell us.

Also they had problems with shadows going through the table in traptown.


I am just pointing out that shadows have actually been a huge problem for hl2 in just about every bit of media they have released. So its no wonder people can say they will be better in another game such as doom 3.

EDIT: Some times the shadows are so bad they are distracting and that just is not good. I have no doubt they will be fixed before release even if they need to delay the game to have more time to work on this problem.

 

[MrD]

its funny, re: the first post ...

you claim that shadows/lighting is the "only separating feature" then go on to list some other differences.

lol

 

[Pagy]

too many people see the d3 vs hl2 situation the same way as a "amd vs intel" or "nvidia vs ati" rivalry.

when in truth, I would bet that most people that have modern computers and components will buy both titles without thinking twice about it. Which games plays or looks better is moot when you consider how fantastic each title looks and apparently plays.

 

[Anwar]

if I had enough money I would buy ati and nvidia, intel and amd, hl2 and d3

=D


but im poor so I will play favorites.

 

[Pagy]

Originally posted by Anwar
if I had enough money I would buy ati and nvidia, intel and amd, hl2 and d3

=D


but im poor so I will play favorites.

i'd settle for any one, or part of one

 

[Yantra3D]

One feature of the new HL2 engine that will definitely succeed D3's engine is its ability to utilize "normal maps" as opposed to simple "bump maps" to simulate and REPLACE hi-res geometry needed to create realistic real-time shading effects within the game engine.

Although the use of both of these methods are meant to achieve the same effect - the use of a "normal map" is far superior to that of a "bump map". Bump maps do not contain the same sort of information that can be stored in a normal map and the difference is VERY significant (especially for a real-time game engine).

The difference (to me) in terms of the end result is comparable to that of a displacement map vs. a simple bump map. A bump map will NEVER be able to produce anything more than a simple surface variation whereas "normal maps" (like displacement maps) are capable of producing 3d geometry-like surfaces that have a depth of at least 100,000 times greater than a simple bump map and will actually simulate hi-res geometry in such a way that there really is no comparison imo.

Bump Map = Minor Surface Variation
Normal Map = Complex 3D geometry-like Surfaces

Being an avid professional Softimage user for more than 8 years, I have extensive experience in using bump maps to simulate geometry and though it has its rightful place in simulating detailed surface features - it is still very limited compared to what a normal map can do. IMO, this feature alone will go a long way at setting these two engines apart.

Also, I am not familiar with D3's lighting system but I can say that after attending E3 this year and viewing both engines first-hand; I would say that I was more impressed with Troika's Bloodlines than any other game at the conference. I'm not personally into the Vampire genre, but the LOD was way impressive and I have to give huge props to Valve for creating such a great engine.

-Tony