Aquestion about fire in the game

[Ashton]

I have 1 question, can you start fires in the game, and if so will they spred to other flammible objects? p.s. I can not spell
oh one more thing I lied
another thing wouldn't it be cool to have a building that has realistic walls. ((example)) If you shot the wall with a big gun, and you blew a hole in it you could see the wood inside the wall aswell as the insalation and plumming and eletrical... and if you hit say an important eletrical outlet the power to that area would go out or if you hit some plumming water would spill out basicly what im saying is it would be awesome to see layers of stuff not just a cardboard wall what are your thoughts? pluse, if you started the room on fire it would slowly spred to other rooms.. and then you could play a game called trying to run out of a burning building with out dying....

 

[Ahnteis]

No, it'd be boring and gimmicky. Sort of like having a game where you can blow holes in some walls but of course, then you have to restrict it horribly because it'd mess up the whole gameplay if you could just wander anywhere. Wait--someone already made that game. It sucked.

Now MP game, it might be decent--but still pretty much a gimmick without any real gameplay value.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Design desicion not technical limitation. :E

 

[TeeJay]

Yes you can start fires, objects/enemies in them catch fire too and they probably do spread to a certain degree. Not sure bout the burning building for a game idea but Max Payne certainly made it cool.

 

[BlazeKun]

Well I'm sure you could program it so fire spreads to flammable objects. In the base HL2 I think it only spreads between NPC's *see the traptown vid*

 

[Sprafa]

(...) Sort of like having a game where you can blow holes in some walls but of course, then you have to restrict it horribly because it'd mess up the whole gameplay if you could just wander anywhere. Wait--someone already made that game. It sucked.(...)

I'm sorry to say that Geo-Mod is a revolutionary step and should be applied more.
And Red faction didn't sucked.
But you're right about one thing, if you can wander anywhere, the game would just be too complex... Imagine blowing up the stairs you needed to go up in HL2...

 

[TeeJay]

Red Faction was alright but was let down by poor level design and plot. The ability to blast your way round locked doors was great fun, defeated the point of trying to open it and exactly why other games didn't add the feature.

Deforming the ground or walls to a certain degree (a small crater but no further) would add to the realism of most games now and I think Half-Life 2 has such an ability (design decision not technical limitation ) since the ground dynamically changes at the start of the techdemo vid.

 

[Sprafa]

And the Striders blow up the passageway and the wall of Kleiner's lab. So it has scripted geo-mod sort of like MP2.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

You can't really compare that because any game could have done what HL2 did in the Kleiner scene.

But...
I would imagine that many games in the not too distant future will all at least have the ability to GeoMod. Ok thats more of a hope....

 

[Sprafa]

Geo-mod will never be implemented in most games. Imagine that you really needed to get to a building in GTA 5(with GM) and some thugs would blow it up with a couple of rockets...

 

[BlazeKun]

I think Half-Life 2 has such an ability (design decision not technical limitation ) since the ground dynamically changes at the start of the techdemo vid.

You are correct, it is totally programmable in. The problem with doing this though is it requires the object to always have a deformation. This increases polygons by... well a ton... and I dunno if our computers are quite capable yet... who knows tho? supposedly all the outdoor areas are made out of deformations so maybe it is possible without sacrificing a huge amount of detail and lowering FPS a ton.

 

[zdub]

hey all, im back, been skulking for awhile. thie thread made me come outta my cave.

It is possible nowadays. if you guys have seen previews and info the the (russian made?) game soldner everything is deformable, trees, entire buildings etc. its like operationg flashpoint with updated graphics. Great M player, and most important everything is deformable and will affect gameplay. sniper hiding in a clump of trees? every soldier you send up there dies? get a tank blow up the general area and crush him with some tree limbs.

MG in the window of a house up the street, RPG will take care of that and noone will think or be able to use that window for a mg spot no more.

all im saying is its possible on a larger scale then red faction

 

[Sprafa]

Hey you stole my Avatar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vegeta897]

To answer the main questions. You will be able to start fires in the game, and, if Valve wants it, it will be able to spread. I guess it would be cool to have "realistic" walls but it wouldn't be that hard depending on the extent, say if you wanted the insulation to be weaker than the wood, then you would need seprate blocks in the wall, otherwise it would just be a texture of the different layers of the wall. The electricity question has nothing to do with the physics of the game, that is just a triggered event. And Half-Life 2 will not have water physics so don't count on that. It will not be implememnted in games anytime soon without causing insane FPS dropage. (Dropage?)

Gabe did say that Half-Life 2 will include dynamic displacement maps for each surface. ("GeoMod")

Hope that helps...

 

[Letters]

Hell, just some good decals would do it for me... I thought Deus Ex: Invisible War looked good, and it doesn't have ANY!

 

[Sprafa]

Gabe did say that Half-Life 2 will include dynamic displacement maps for each surface. ("GeoMod")

But in the beta nothing happens to the walls when I shoot a OICW grenade to the walls.Maybe Geo-mod isn't applied yet...
And it would certainly trouble Valve's life, having to make multiple ways to get to important, plot-adv. places (imagine blowing up the last bridge to the other side of town - you would have to swim...)
And if it does, well, buildings. That's right buildings. It would make huge slowdowns for the processor to process a building being demolished by a few rounds of an RPG on its base floors.

Anyways, total interaction with env - fires that spread, geomod - won't be applied in most games in next few years...

 

[alehm]

I think the trade off of the computer rendering plumbing and insulation in holes in walls versus enchancing gameplay isn't a good one. However adding an occasional busted water pipe in an explosion shooting out steam or water would be pretty cool.

 

[zdub]

Hey you stole my Avatar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

psha look at post count and time of registering. you stole mine if you wanna get technical

 

[Sprafa]

That doesn't counts!!!
I had it 1st !!!!
I put it on as soon as the HL2 skin came out with it!!!!

 

[zdub]

lol...but i registered before you...therefor i used this avatar before you. so unless you were using it back in july under a different name....and even still...who cares?

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Meh, AnywaY!


Gabe said surfaces CAN have displacment maps. They probably don't use them for most if not all of the actuall game because there is no point. and its CPU hungry...

 

[Sprafa]

Meh, AnywaY!


Gabe said surfaces CAN have displacment maps. They probably don't use them for most if not all of the actuall game because there is no point. and its CPU hungry...

Exactly what I said - they'll script sequences for caracthers or enemies to blow up like MP2. Processing a building coming down is way tooo hard, it would make the game run at 5 FPS on a high-end PC. It's just impssible with the today's tech....

By the way I changed my Avatar annoying guy that kept bugging me....I'll show my support to EU more openly like this...

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

lol



Yeah, exactly. Hmmmm....


Another five years and buidlings in games are likely to be built from bricks and mortor....


God its gona be sooo much fun with an RPG!

 

[daveodeth]

you mean like baldur gate.

 

[BlazeKun]

you mean like baldur gate.

Brick and mortor was the name of Baldur's gate's level editor correct? Or am I way off?

 

[RFarmer]

Who's the dude that said it's impossible to have water-based physics in the game? They have no idea what they are implying. During an interview, Gabe Newell stated that the water-based physics will be just as complex as the physics on land. FPS drop? No. He even said that if you stand on a piece of wood floating amongst the surface, depending on the surface area, it would slowly sink from your weight. When you fell off, the board would than float back to the surface. I think that's damn cool stuff, as well as the other stuff in the game floating around in the depths of the water. This game is going to be like none-other for a long time to come........

 

[Vegeta897]

There is fire spreading in HL2, but it's scripted where to go, but it wouldn't be hard to do anyway...

One of the main things I'm impressed with was the camera system, very cool. I want to put a tv in front of the camera that is recording what's on the tv... I wonda what will happen? The endless cycle?

I think I tried it once in the beta, I forgot what happened...

 

[zdub]

i think it was more specific. something like waves arent made by dropping objects into water which is understandeable cause think of the calculations needed if a lvl was made where a large...say metal box was dropped into a pool in the middle of the room, the waves made would surely splash the water onto the ground around the pool and flood some rooms in a small bit of water, then the water would retract slowly back into the pool leaving some thigns wet, friction would have to be changed on certain surfaces etc....

 

[Letters]

There is fire spreading in HL2, but it's scripted where to go, but it wouldn't be hard to do anyway...

One of the main things I'm impressed with was the camera system, very cool. I want to put a tv in front of the camera that is recording what's on the tv... I wonda what will happen? The endless cycle?

I think I tried it once in the beta, I forgot what happened...

Does anyone know if anything has been said about moving cameras? I ask because I'd like to be able to use this for cutscenes by forcing the use of a camera that is made to move along a certain path, then destroyed after it's done.

If not, I think I might have an e-mail to send!

 

[Vegeta897]

Of course they will have it. Don't worry about it. Besides, you can always have a camera sliding along a little ramp built into the level. Ahhh, physics. Oh man mark my word I bet somewhere in the game you will be looking at a monitor scrren showing a camera veiw and then it will fall and you will see the camera's POV falling and tumbling down say, a staircase. Just to show off their physics.

 

[OCybrManO]

The endless feedback cycle is implemented in HL2, but they said that (for some unknown reason) someone turned it off in the videos.

Almost any object (including cameras) can be made to move along a pre-set path (you don't have to use physics to do this). Sort of like the trains in HL but with more control.

Also, the cameras don't have to be actual physical objects. Why would you need to destroy it?

 

[SubKamran]

It would be cool to have more "realism" but then you get too caught up in that instead of what they want you to enjoy.

If Max Payne 2 is any indication of the physics, um, *DRRRROOOOLLLL* I saw the E3 video...yes...*mumbles*physics*mumbles*

 

[Letters]

The endless feedback cycle is implemented in HL2, but they said that (for some unknown reason) someone turned it off in the videos.

Almost any object (including cameras) can be made to move along a pre-set path (you don't have to use physics to do this). Sort of like the trains in HL but with more control.

Also, the cameras don't have to be actual physical objects. Why would you need to destroy it?

Awwww, sweet! Best news I've heard in a long time about this game! :cheese:

 

[Yakuza]

To answer the main questions. You will be able to start fires in the game, and, if Valve wants it, it will be able to spread. I guess it would be cool to have "realistic" walls but it wouldn't be that hard depending on the extent, say if you wanted the insulation to be weaker than the wood, then you would need seprate blocks in the wall, otherwise it would just be a texture of the different layers of the wall. The electricity question has nothing to do with the physics of the game, that is just a triggered event. And Half-Life 2 will not have water physics so don't count on that. It will not be implememnted in games anytime soon without causing insane FPS dropage. (Dropage?)

Gabe did say that Half-Life 2 will include dynamic displacement maps for each surface. ("GeoMod")

Hope that helps...

Just watch the e3 videos. The part when the ground shakes and grows, then listen to what the guy has to say.

 

[Fender357]

No, it'd be boring and gimmicky. Sort of like having a game where you can blow holes in some walls but of course, then you have to restrict it horribly because it'd mess up the whole gameplay if you could just wander anywhere. Wait--someone already made that game. It sucked.

Now MP game, it might be decent--but still pretty much a gimmick without any real gameplay value.

Red Faction wasn't that bad.

 

[Ashton]

Hey thanks everyone who gave there comment... P.S. did everyone notice that in the videos every glass window blew out the same way and left the same jagged edge design. I hope the change that, if there is one thing that takes me out of a game it's patterns like that. By the way If you did have an all deformadible map and you destroied a certan route like a bunch of stairs, then the could have a grappling hook or some gadget to counter any obstical.

 

[Stingey]

yes fire can be configured to spread, i asked Gabe in September

 

[The Brick]

Oh man mark my word I bet somewhere in the game you will be looking at a monitor screen showing a camera view and then it will fall and you will see the camera's POV falling and tumbling down say, a staircase. Just to show off their physics.

true, Max payne 2 showed of their physics very much (i.e. that guy outside a window(in that large building) is just waiting to be shot down and when he's dead you see him fall down in slow motion), but it still was very cool to see.

 

[Ro@cH]

There is fire spreading in HL2, but it's scripted where to go, but it wouldn't be hard to do anyway...

One of the main things I'm impressed with was the camera system, very cool. I want to put a tv in front of the camera that is recording what's on the tv... I wonda what will happen? The endless cycle?

I think I tried it once in the beta, I forgot what happened...

I e-mailed gabe about this a long time ago (the effect is called the Droste-effect). In the tech-demo, the player picks up a camera with his antigrav gun, and points it at the big tv screen, so you have a picture of the screen on the screen but in that picture of the screen, there is no second picture of the screen. Rewatch the video, you'll know what I mean. The Droste-effect only went one level deep. I mailed Gabe if semi-infinite Droste effect would be in HL2, and told him about what I noticed in the tech-demo, and he said that for some reason, one of the programmers turned it off for the tech-demo recording, but that in the final game, it should be turned on, so you can have a infinitely deep droste-effect.


And about the fire, it can spread dynamically, as was stated by Gabe in an e-mail. Search for it in the valve thread summary, it's probably in there.

 

[peoplesuc]

It would be cool to have a dead combine ragdolling down an ascending escalator. I wonder how long it would take till the body got contorted into a position that it stopped rolling. Better yet have a slinky type object that kept on going!!!