Biggest and most important political event of 2005

[Razor]

Ok, we're just a short way into 2005 and a lot has happened since new years day. What do you think is the biggest and most important political event of the past 4 months, and why?

 

[Locust]

Probably the Tsuname. This is because it drew attention from America's involvment in Iraq.

 

[GhostFox]

I don't think there is any other option then the Iraqi Election. In 100 years this event may be looked back upon as the event that changed the political climate of the world. It's hard to see it now, but if the domino effect continues with any great signifigance, the election may be the most important political occurance of the 21st century.

 

[staticprimer]

I don't think there is any other option then the Iraqi Election. In 100 years this event may be looked back upon as the event that changed the political climate of the world. It's hard to see it now, but if the domino effect continues with any great signifigance, the election may be the most important political occurance of the 21st century.

I think saying the Iraqi election being the most important political occurance of the 21st century is a little pre-emptive. After all, we still have 95 years left in this century and I have a that something will happen in those years that will be bigger. I wouldn't be suprised if something bigger happens in the next decade.

 

[DarkStar]

Of 2005?

Definitely the Iraqi election.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Iraqi Election. no doubt about it..

but what else is on the Calender for this year?
any1 know?

 

[Apos]

The Iraqi election? It's practically a non-event in the US, so, no. Terri Schiavo is the biggest political event in recent memory, because it made a lot of Republicans suddenly wake up and see what a bunch of complete lying nutjobs they'd got into bed with.

 

[DarkStar]

The Iraqi election? It's practically a non-event in the US, so, no. Terri Schiavo is the biggest political event in recent memory, because it made a lot of Republicans suddenly wake up and see what a bunch of complete lying nutjobs they'd got into bed with.

If democracy manages a toehold in Iraq and actually begins to spread throughout the Arab word, well, that's major. The Iraqi election was the first bright spot in an otherwise extremely cloudy American campaign. Hopefully it'll prove to be a turning point in the war, a first step in bringing our soldiers home. Hey Apos, I'm a liberal too, but even I have to admit that the Iraqi elections were not only a major occurence, but a wholly-positive step for the region. Non-Event? Hardly.

The Schiavo episode will be forgotten mere days after the woman dies. You'll see.

 

[GhostFox]

Terri Schiavo is the biggest political event in recent memory, because it made a lot of Republicans suddenly wake up and see what a bunch of complete lying nutjobs they'd got into bed with.

How does a legal battle between the rights of Next of Kin vs. Spousal rights have anything to do with republicans? The whole case is simply about which party has the legal right to make this kind of medical decision. In the end the husband will win, because realistically he should, although it is quite strange he waited 8 years to come up with this "she wanted to die" story. I don't think the courts would be doing anything wrong by granting the rights to the parents because of this, but I think they are out of options already.

The point is that none of this has anything to do with party affiliation. Certain people may want to try to bring that into it, but they are just being silly.

 

[DarkStar]

How does a legal battle between the rights of Next of Kin vs. Spousal rights have anything to do with republicans? The whole case is simply about which party has the legal right to make this kind of medical decision. In the end the husband will win, because realistically he should, although it is quite strange he waited 8 years to come up with this "she wanted to die" story. I don't think the courts would be doing anything wrong by granting the rights to the parents because of this, but I think they are out of options already.

The point is that none of this has anything to do with party affiliation. Certain people may want to try to bring that into it, but they are just being silly.

The Republicans on the hill were the ones who spearheaded the effort to circumvent states rights and get a personal medical matter tossed into federal court. Tell Bill Frist and Tom Delay that this hasn't been a Republican issue.

 

[GhostFox]

The Republicans on the hill were the ones who spearheaded the effort to circumvent states rights and get a personal medical matter tossed into federal court

I don't know if it is really circumventing states rights as I understand it. I can see the parents perspective and isn't that what the Federal Appeals court is for? The husbands claim is suspect, but I'm sure he will win out for legal status in the end. But I don't see anything wrong with the parents challenging that legal status.

 

[bliink]

This thread isn't here to argue the Schiavo case.

 

[Calanen]

/me puts away Schiavo case file......

I'd agree on the Iraqi election. The left said, noone will vote, its a disaster, thousands will be killed on polling day provind what a failure it all is. They are not 'ready' for democracy, people don't want democracy.

And yet for all the threats by the terrorists, people did come and vote - a lot of them. A huge proportion of the population.

http://www.benadorassociates.com/pf.php?id=12376

 

[AzzMan]

In response to the thread title, nothing worth mentioning. Maybe the Iraq election. Maybe.

 

[Apos]

If democracy manages a toehold in Iraq and actually begins to spread throughout the Arab word, well, that's major. The Iraqi election was the first bright spot in an otherwise extremely cloudy American campaign. Hopefully it'll prove to be a turning point in the war, a first step in bringing our soldiers home. Hey Apos, I'm a liberal too, but even I have to admit that the Iraqi elections were not only a major occurence, but a wholly-positive step for the region. Non-Event? Hardly.

Sure, they are a bright spot. But they are a lot less of a big deal in the long run than people think. Elections != working democracy. Elections are held all over the Middle East all the time, and the result is not any sort of democracy that we could be proud of. Iraqis should be proud that their country is back on the right track, but they are nowhere near the point where they are assured to avoid a civil war, endless unrest, or the re-emergence of radicalism as a ruling faction (heck, did people forget that the Baathists were originally the U.S. backed party when Iraq was a democracy BEFORE all this?). Maybe the US can pour billions and billions into fixing an African country next? Nope. That's not going to happen. "Look, we can hold some elections!" was like the 80th justification for the war on a long list of lies and misleading claims. So, whatever.

What happened in Syria and Lebanon is far far more important for the region when it comes to the Middle East.

And the fact is, the American public hasn't shown a heck of a lot of interest in it. Jacko's trial has already gotten three times as much press.

So, I'm back to telling you: the Schiavo case is more important, politically. It has been a wakeup for many in the Republican party: the last straw on top of fiscal irresponsibility, liberal-style nannying, and secrecy. This is the watershed where the wave of the conservative movement broke and started to deconstruct on itself.

 

[DarkStar]

This is the watershed where the wave of the conservative movement broke and started to deconstruct on itself.

We can only hope bud.

 

[Calanen]

Elections != working democracy. Elections are held all over the Middle East all the time, and the result is not any sort of democracy that we could be proud of.

I'm trying to think where.........can you give some examples? I am not talking about Saddam's bizarre election at Baath party gunpoint so if you voted No you died.

Here i am talking about the ultimate guy. Please don't post a link saying that the city council in a suburb of Cairo has elections....I am talking about the main man, tnhe Head of State.

Egypt - President in for the duration, so no elections (lease no meaningful ones, Nasser, and Sadat were in forever, and I cant believe that was because of democratic elections. That said, I don't know for sure.....),
Jordan - Monarchy so no elections
Libya - Colonel Gaddaffi - Dictator so no elections
Qatar - Royal Family - Sultanate so no elections
Saudi Arabia - Monarch - so no elections.
Kuwait - Royal Family - so no elections.
Syria - Assad - dictatorship no elections
UAE - Royal Family so no elections.
Iran - Theocracy so no elections for the Ayotallah.

So where again are the democractic elections in the Middle East?

Israel has elections and the Palestian Authority do...now. Those are the only two places that I can think of. That said, I don't know what Yemen does.

 

[Nofuture]

We Had a Democracy Once, But You Crushed It
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Mokhiber-Weissman_Kinzer-Coups.htm

"Our task is to work with those in the Middle East who seek progress toward greater democracy, tolerance, prosperity and freedom. As President Bush said in February, ‘The world has a clear interest in the spread of democratic values, because stable and free nations do not breed ideologies of murder. They encourage the peaceful pursuit of a better life."

Now, if we only had a nickel for every time Bush, or Rice, or Colin Powell, or Paul Wolfowitz or Dick Cheney or Richard Perle or Donald Rumsfeld talked about bringing democracy to the Middle East.

Talk, talk, talk.

Here's something you can bet on: Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz will not hold a press conference this month to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the U.S.-led coup of the democratically elected leader of Iran -- Mohammed Mossadegh.

Rice and Powell won't hold a press conference to celebrate Operation Ajax, the CIA plot that overthrew the Mossadegh."

...

"Kinzer has written a remarkable new book, All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror (Wiley, 2003).

In it, he documents step by step, how Roosevelt, the Dulles boys and Norman Schwarzkopf Sr., among a host of others, took down a democratically elected regime in Iran.

They had freedom of the press. We shut it down.

They had democracy. And we crushed it.

Mossadegh was the beacon of hope for the Middle East.

If democracy were allowed to take hold in Iran, it probably would have spread throughout the Middle East.

We asked Kinzer “what does the overthrow of Mossadegh say about the United States respect for democracy abroad?”

"Imagine today what it must sound like to Iranians to hear American leaders tell them – ‘We want you to have a democracy in Iran, we disapprove of your present government, we wish to help you bring democracy to your country.' Naturally, they roll their eyes and say -- "We had a democracy once, but you crushed it,'" he said. "This shows how differently other people perceive us from the way we perceive ourselves. We think of ourselves as paladins of democracy. But actually, in Iran, we destroyed the last democratic regime the country ever had"

 

[CptStern]

I don't think there is any other option then the Iraqi Election. In 100 years this event may be looked back upon as the event that changed the political climate of the world. It's hard to see it now, but if the domino effect continues with any great signifigance, the election may be the most important political occurance of the 21st century.

I'm sure that's what they said when there was a US orchestrated regime change in:


Greece
Iran
Guatemala
Laos
Haiti
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Congo
Brazil
Indonesia
Bolivia
Uruguay
Cambodia
Chile
Angola
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Honduras
Panama


anyways, while the election got tons of western media attention far more important events (IMHO) recieved little coverage

Burundi's cease fire agreements and consolidation of rival warring factions with governmental forces that has brought some stability to the nation: the Hutus and Tutsis finally working together after years of brutal atrocities on both sides

the peace agreement in Sudan while nowhere near enough is a small step in the right direction

The Palestinian election

Nepal's failed steps towards democracy culminating in the king dissolving parliament and putting all politicians on house arrest


The formation of the African Peace and Security Council which has committed peacekeepers to somalia from neighboring african
nations

Ukrainian presidential election: while the actual elections were held in november and december 2004 the final results werent announced till Jan 10 2005. The importance of the "Orange Revolution" was a true democracy in the making

 

[Tr0n]

We Had a Democracy Once, But You Crushed It
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Mokhiber-Weissman_Kinzer-Coups.htm

"Our task is to work with those in the Middle East who seek progress toward greater democracy, tolerance, prosperity and freedom. As President Bush said in February, ‘The world has a clear interest in the spread of democratic values, because stable and free nations do not breed ideologies of murder. They encourage the peaceful pursuit of a better life."

Now, if we only had a nickel for every time Bush, or Rice, or Colin Powell, or Paul Wolfowitz or Dick Cheney or Richard Perle or Donald Rumsfeld talked about bringing democracy to the Middle East.

Talk, talk, talk.

Here's something you can bet on: Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz will not hold a press conference this month to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the U.S.-led coup of the democratically elected leader of Iran -- Mohammed Mossadegh.

Rice and Powell won't hold a press conference to celebrate Operation Ajax, the CIA plot that overthrew the Mossadegh."

...

"Kinzer has written a remarkable new book, All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror (Wiley, 2003).

In it, he documents step by step, how Roosevelt, the Dulles boys and Norman Schwarzkopf Sr., among a host of others, took down a democratically elected regime in Iran.

They had freedom of the press. We shut it down.

They had democracy. And we crushed it.

Mossadegh was the beacon of hope for the Middle East.

If democracy were allowed to take hold in Iran, it probably would have spread throughout the Middle East.

We asked Kinzer “what does the overthrow of Mossadegh say about the United States respect for democracy abroad?”

"Imagine today what it must sound like to Iranians to hear American leaders tell them – ‘We want you to have a democracy in Iran, we disapprove of your present government, we wish to help you bring democracy to your country.' Naturally, they roll their eyes and say -- "We had a democracy once, but you crushed it,'" he said. "This shows how differently other people perceive us from the way we perceive ourselves. We think of ourselves as paladins of democracy. But actually, in Iran, we destroyed the last democratic regime the country ever had"

Wow...thats eye opening...