Bullet time possible in source?

S

schelle

Guest
Hey,
just reading a preview of Max Payne 2 an interesting question came to my mind. Would it be possible to code bullet time mode in source?
I think source is so a high performing engine that it should easily be possible, but maybe one of you guys knows more exact information (announced by valve?)
thx chris
 
I think I saw gabe mention that I dunno...but IMO yes...it is possible. Anything is :D
 
well, yes BUT
you would need to simpulate the bullets(if you want to be able to see them in slo-mo)

but The Specialists made it....cool mad for HL
 
Anything that is math is possible. And everything is math :)
 
its not possible in multiplayer is it?

unless thay made everyone slow down in the server except the player who activated it, but that would be kinda stupid.
 
Originally posted by Submerge
its not possible in multiplayer is it?

unless thay made everyone slow down in the server except the player who activated it, but that would be kinda stupid.
Click to expand...
Its may be nicely possible, with some trickery :)
One way I see for instance, is to speed them up for everyone else, while they speed down. When someone goes into bullet time, you see him move at 3 times the speed. But he actually see everything move at 1/3rd the speed. The problem is that its only an idea, and I have no idea if it works. Now when I think on it, I dont think its possible this way :)
Oh well, they did make it in that mod I beleive, I've never played it though, so I dont know how.
 
Originally posted by dawdler
When someone goes into bullet time, you see him move at 3 times the speed. But he actually see everything move at 1/3rd the speed.
Click to expand...

Errr... you already said it wouldn't work, but think about what you just said. This wouldn't be altering what happens in the game, this would be altering REALITY.

Anyway, in The Specialists, when someone uses bullet time, everyone's game slows down. I don't remember if this happens to everyone on the server - I think it's just everyone within a certain distance from the player activating bullet time.

* Remember - bullet time in The Matrix was just a great cosmetic effect. And a way to let us see in detail what happens in the gunfights and how Neo and the agents dodge the bullets.

* Bullet time in Max Payne had the extra functionality to make your character better in the game world than his enemies are.

* Bullet time in a multiplayer game doesn't have quite the same benefit for the BT user, but at least the one using it knows WHEN the game will slow down and will adjust his mouse movements and aiming accordingly.
 
Originally posted by *HEL*Karri
* Bullet time in a multiplayer game doesn't have quite the same benefit for the BT user, but at least the one using it knows WHEN the game will slow down and will adjust his mouse movements and aiming accordingly.
Click to expand...
My way would work perfectly, if it didnt stretch the laws of nature :p

Anyway, another idea to simulate it would to use area specific slowdowns... Quite large areas and quite short time of course, so that people cant interrupt from the outside (without being slowed down)... The difference between the one going into bullet time and the rest would be that of course he knows it, and he is able to turn (not move) faster than the other, they have everything slowed down, including camera. It would be kind of like MP. For example, doing it around a corner would work perfectly. Run, slow down, turn and shoot, the other players wont even have time to react before they see's bullets moving at them.
If they are lucky they are slowly moving in the right direction though :)
 
well i remember gabe saying they had real-time bullet physics in the game at one point... like you had to lead your target and aim a little higher than your intended point because of gravity... but than they took it out cause it was boring...

and yes bullet time is possible, they have it in hl1 as already mentioned in this thread :p
 
Originally posted by Kyle2
and yes bullet time is possible, they have it in hl1 as already mentioned in this thread :p
Click to expand...
Of course, I was merely suggesting new types of ideas to do it :)
 
Well of course it is possible, but would it be good for gameplay in multiplayer?

One possibility could be that way like Dawdler said earlier. But this would suck if you are on another side of map. And suddenly you would slow down because someone else has just used slow-motion. So it would have to be done like only those who are inside some certain radius (ie if u could see the user u would slow down) from the slow-motionist ;)
 
Originally posted by Submerge
its not possible in multiplayer is it?

unless thay made everyone slow down in the server except the player who activated it, but that would be kinda stupid.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. You could only do bullet time if you slowed down everyone, and now I'll explain why.


When you enter bullet time, you have slowed down your characters' perception of time and at the same time drasticly increased his/her speed. To all other people you should appear as a blur, but you see the bullet time. This is NOT possible in multi-player, because the second you engage bullet time your character drops out of sync with the server time. Because while your character's perception of time changes, everyone else remains in real time. Let me give a scenario as an example.


Player A is fighting Player B. Player A begins firing an M16/A2 at player B, player B enters bullet time.

On Player B's client, over the course of a minute, dodges all of the bullets and manages to deliver a powerful kick to player A's face, knocking player A into the wall.

In the game's real-time a minute has lapsed, in bullet time the equivilent of five seconds has lapsed.

According to player A's client he filled player B full of lead and then walked away well before the minute was up. The server would naturally give player A precedence since his packets arrived before player B. Player B basically dropped out of sync with the server because while his character's perception altered, the server exists only in real time. So it can only validate whatever gets to it first, in this case that'd be player A.

Even if you had pre-scripted fight sequences the server auto-decided, it'd still leave the character that went into bullet time inert to every other player until it completed its sequence. The only way to do bullet time in MP is to force everyone to enter bullet time and thus everyone experiences the same passage of time.
 
Originally posted by Fallout2man
Yes and no. You could only do bullet time if you slowed down everyone, and now I'll explain why.


When you enter bullet time, you have slowed down your characters' perception of time and at the same time drasticly increased his/her speed. To all other people you should appear as a blur, but you see the bullet time. This is NOT possible in multi-player, because the second you engage bullet time your character drops out of sync with the server time. Because while your character's perception of time changes, everyone else remains in real time. Let me give a scenario as an example.


Player A is fighting Player B. Player A begins firing an M16/A2 at player B, player B enters bullet time.

On Player B's client, over the course of a minute, dodges all of the bullets and manages to deliver a powerful kick to player A's face, knocking player A into the wall.

In the game's real-time a minute has lapsed, in bullet time the equivilent of five seconds has lapsed.

According to player A's client he filled player B full of lead and then walked away well before the minute was up. The server would naturally give player A precedence since his packets arrived before player B. Player B basically dropped out of sync with the server because while his character's perception altered, the server exists only in real time. So it can only validate whatever gets to it first, in this case that'd be player A.

Even if you had pre-scripted fight sequences the server auto-decided, it'd still leave the character that went into bullet time inert to every other player until it completed its sequence. The only way to do bullet time in MP is to force everyone to enter bullet time and thus everyone experiences the same passage of time.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should read the entire thread, this exact type was my first suggestion and first rejection as it broke some stupid laws of nature and time ;)
The idea with slowing down camera for all affected except bullet time person should still work though. Gives the player an advantage, while not breaking any rules.
 
You could code bullet time where you go fast/normal while everyone else goes slow, but not where it looks like you are going super fast while they are going at a normal speed. At least not without making some predipicted sequence, which is impossible because of how inconsistent humans are.
 
TS handles bullet time wonderfully.. better then Enter the matrix IMO

Slow Motion - slows everyone down on the server, basicly to look cool but also helps recoil on akimbo uzis and stuff... but does the same thing for the other players XD

Slow Pause - Slows everyone down again, but this time ALOT, bullets will fly and you will see em do it, moveing no faster then your normall running speed, everyone slows down apart from yourself, who slows down about 1/3rd of what everyone else does

TS is the best multiplayer mod I have played, honestly, CS (dare I say it) and TFC etc where great, but nothing beats diveing sidewards in slow motion, letting out a round of Dez Eagle fire into whoever is unlucky enough to get to close... im sorry, nothing is better then that XD but thats just my persanly chooseing, one thing about hl2 that would do it better is right now Katanas suck ryoal ass, but in Hl2 they would rock, and act real (you would be able to parry and stuff with them :p)
 
Isn't Bullet time patented?

Wouldn't you need to change it to some extent so that it isn't replicating that of Max Payne style Bullet time?

I could be stupid or mis-informed, you decide.
 
I have a system that works perfectly, I've thought about it alot:

Basically each person is surrounded by an area of effect, a circle. Inside that circle, when bullet time is activated, everone INSIDE the circle will move slowly (bullet time user can still move fast if you want that in your mod).
Bullets outside of the circle act normally, going at super high speeds, but whenever anything enters the circle (when bullet time is enabled) it automatically slows down. So someone can be going at normal speed outside of the circle, he will see everyone inside it moving slowly, he will be able to shoot, but once his bullets enter the circle they're easy to dodge.
That's the only way I've been able to think of doing it well.
 
Originally posted by babywax
I have a system that works perfectly, I've thought about it alot:

Basically each person is surrounded by an area of effect, a circle. Inside that circle, when bullet time is activated, everone INSIDE the circle will move slowly (bullet time user can still move fast if you want that in your mod).
Bullets outside of the circle act normally, going at super high speeds, but whenever anything enters the circle (when bullet time is enabled) it automatically slows down. So someone can be going at normal speed outside of the circle, he will see everyone inside it moving slowly, he will be able to shoot, but once his bullets enter the circle they're easy to dodge.
That's the only way I've been able to think of doing it well.
Click to expand...

That's probably the most plausable way of doing it in multiplayer.. but one question. What happens if two people in bullet time cross each other's sphere's of influence, does it cancel bullet time out for one, for both, do nothing atall or double bullet time so everything pretty much pauses
 
Nothing, it stays at normal bullet time rate. The overlap zone is the same as ever, otherwise it would get kind of wierd with overlapping bullet time zones.
 
okie cool, i was just curious what the effect would be.. Maybe make it an option that can be changed, could be interesting to see how different methods effect gameplay
 
Yeah, I obviously haven't tested this. (I was thinking about why they didn't make max payne mutliplayer when I thought of this idea) So, having the overlapping bull time effects slow down double or cancel eachother out might have a neat effect in game.
 
Bullet-time is possible even with the HL1 engine. Look at The Specialists. Im not sure its the same bullet-time system Max Payne use but it feels like Max Payne.
 
Originally posted by babywax
I have a system that works perfectly, I've thought about it alot:

Basically each person is surrounded by an area of effect, a circle. Inside that circle, when bullet time is activated, everone INSIDE the circle will move slowly (bullet time user can still move fast if you want that in your mod).
Bullets outside of the circle act normally, going at super high speeds, but whenever anything enters the circle (when bullet time is enabled) it automatically slows down. So someone can be going at normal speed outside of the circle, he will see everyone inside it moving slowly, he will be able to shoot, but once his bullets enter the circle they're easy to dodge.
That's the only way I've been able to think of doing it well.
Click to expand...

The problem still is still relative perception, even with limited spheres of influence where the physics slows down. Unless you expect the other players to percieve the one in bullet time as wading through jelly, then you can't really do it.

Remember, bullet time is altered perception of the passage of time, for it to be done correctly, the player in bullet time must appear as moving much much faster then normal to other players.
 
No, he can still appear to be moving slowly. Your perception of bullet time is skewed, what I'm saying is when someone activates bullet time they slow down, maybe you add a 'wavy' effect to the area of bullet time to make it recognizable, but the idea remains the same. Instead of having the people in the sphere speed up, you have them move slowly, as they see themselves. The people inside the sphere see others inside the sphere as moving slowly, and people outside the sphere as moving at normal speed.
 
This isn't true bullet time, and your reactions wouldn't be fast enough to do a whole lot with it - but my idea is to speed up the character that uses while keeping everyone else normal. He simply runs faster, fires faster, whatever while he has bullet time. It would give you a nice advantage over the other players and wouldn't mess much up.

The only way to do it IMO while keeping true bullet time in all of its coolness and still give the player enough of an advantage to use it - is to have the player who activates it run normal, fire normal, etc. but everyone else slows down. This way you still get the cool bullet time effects and a good advantage over the other players.

But this would not be fun in a large game at all. It would be quite horrible actually. I think a game like MP2 should have a 6 player or so limit, and small maps with 1-2 main fighting arenas.
 
My idea wouldn't give enough of an advantage? Dang man, it would give a huge advantage, it all depends on the radius of the bullet time circle and the slow down % though...
 
Originally posted by babywax
My idea wouldn't give enough of an advantage? Dang man, it would give a huge advantage, it all depends on the radius of the bullet time circle and the slow down % though...
Click to expand...

Honestly I hadn't read yours before I posted mine. In the first paragraph when I said it wasn't true bullet time and you wouldnt have fast enough reactions I was talking about my first idea, not yours.
 
I <3 The Specialists Beta 2.0! Best mod ever made for Half-Life if you ask me (besides Counter-Strike, of course).
 
What about a bullet-time system where everything slows down, except for the bullet time initiator, who is moving at normal speed (subjectively). Everyone else's mouse sensitivity is cut in half, as well as their movement and any events (like bullets). So whoever is not in bullet time is moving slowly , subjectively, while the main character is moving at what the player considers normal speed. Meanwhile, the bullet time initiator doesn't suffer these effects, but everyone around him seems to be moving slowly. When two people initiate bullet time, neither suffer the penalties.

Then you would have to have a videocamera that shows the entire battle in "normal" time...
 
Originally posted by babywax
I have a system that works perfectly, I've thought about it alot:

Basically each person is surrounded by an area of effect, a circle. Inside that circle, when bullet time is activated, everone INSIDE the circle will move slowly (bullet time user can still move fast if you want that in your mod).
Bullets outside of the circle act normally, going at super high speeds, but whenever anything enters the circle (when bullet time is enabled) it automatically slows down. So someone can be going at normal speed outside of the circle, he will see everyone inside it moving slowly, he will be able to shoot, but once his bullets enter the circle they're easy to dodge.
That's the only way I've been able to think of doing it well.
Click to expand...

*cough* THATS THE WAY TS DOES IT cough*

Oops, sorry to bust your bubble, but that idea is allready in-use :dozey:
 
What's being talked about isn't true bullet time. True bullet time is where any character who enters bullet time basically slows down the entire world and moves at say about 1/2 normal speed but to every other player he moves up to 20 times faster then normal and has insane reaction time.

That can never be done without finding a way to speed up and slow down the real world :p
 
The way TS does bullet time is area of effect (i think). Because i have been walking at normal speed and then i see someone floating through the air? sure, it's not true bullet time but it's pretty damn close.
 
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