Bully

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Well, today I had to take back by rented copy of GTA: San Andreas back to Family Video. But since It is still two day's away from GTA IV day and I feared I would suffer from the dreaded Rockstar withdrawl so I popped in my own copy of Bully to keep me sound until Tuesday.

But I noticed something as I played a few story missions and bought clothes and haircuts for Jimmy. This is a great game. A very good "spin off" from the GTA series, but when you compare it to it's older brothers (and it's really hard not to after playing SA for five day's) It's small and not that deep. Which kinda killed it a little bit for me.

But then I thought of something. What if Bully is a sort of experiment for Rockstar. To see if they could take the core of GTA and implant it into a pretty different story. And when I looked at Bully like that, the part that was killed for me was just brought back to life. You don't sink a hole bunch of money and manhours for a concept that sounds a little shaky. Such as "it's like GTA but with the violence toned way down". That would be stupid.

Instead you take a good hunk of money and make a really good game. Not on scale with San Andreas or even Vice City but something that if succeeds give you a good base to make a sequel that will blow the first out of the water and into space. So now I am more hyped then ever for Bully II.

What about you guy's? Did you like Bully and would like to see a sequel?

 

[Reginald]

It has no vehicles and the combat is based on the same engine as the GTAIII series. It doesn't hold any draws for me and I imagine will feel hugely archaic after playing GTAIV.

Having said that I haven't played it so I should really wait before passing judgement.

 

[smwScott]

The game has drivable bikes and go-carts and the combat is completely overhauled and far superior to anything in the GTA series. It's much closer to the Warriors actually.

I think that Bully is an example of Rockstar testing the waters before going out and creating GTA IV. It contains a lot of the same design philosophies, with the focus being on a smaller but incredibly detailed and authentic gameplay area and giving you a lot to do but making everything much more compact and localized. It's an amazing game that plays like a far more polished and refined evolution of GTA, but it lacks the scope and style that made GTA so great. It seems as if they've struck a perfect balance with IV.

Also, Rockstar did the same thing with Manhunt. Many of the gameplay features introduced in that later carried over to San Andreas - mainly the stealth, combat, and aiming elements.

I also wonder if Bully exists in the same universe as GTA like Manhunt does. In GTA3 they make direct references to Carcer City (where Manhunt takes place) and many of the brands such as Sprunk! carry over. I didn't catch anything so direct in Bully but it's possible they intended to tie it in.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Good post smwScoot (when ever I see your name I always thing of Shawn William Scott) but no I have not found anything in Bully that tied it to the GTA universe. But I feel it does exist in GTA. Which is kind of cool because Bullworth is in New England thus Bullworth is not that far from Liberty City at least a 2 hour drive I bet.

I hope we see Jimmy in the background in GTA IV. Bully II will be larger in the way of side missions (there were none in the first except a few race's). And at least a little larger in the way of the map. Just a little bigger. I also hope we get news of Bully II soon. Perhaps E3 08?

 

[Reginald]

Perhaps I need to give it a chance!

Anyway, even if Bully does exist in the GTAIII universe, there probably won't be more than a passing reference in GTAIV because it's a new universe technically.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Just because it's new tech GTA IV is runnning on doesn't make it a new universe. It just makes it a prettyer one.

 

[Reginald]

An interview confirmed that apart from Lazlow, Sprunk, Cluckin' Bell and a couple of other things, it's an entirely new universe.

If you want an entirely in-universe explanation, it's a parallel universe caused by the awesomeness of Vice City.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Damn. Why does it have to be a new universe? That suck's. Now Bully II and GTA IV will never refrence each other.

 

[Reginald]

Apparently the number after the name is the universe it takes place in. It's a convenient way of ensuring the games aren't ruled by inconsistencies.

GTA Universe 1 - GTA, GTA: London: 1961, GTA: London: 1969
GTA Universe 2 - GTA 2
GTA Universe 3 - GTAIII, GTA: Liberty City Stories, GTA: Vice City, GTA: Vice City Stories, GTA: San Andreas, Manhunt, Manhunt 2, Bully (?)
GTA Universe 4 - GTAIV

The problem comes when adding Bully. Do you then include Max Payne, Smuggler's Run, State of Emergency, Midnight Club or even Rockstar Table Tennis? The only game that includes references to being in the GTA universe is Manhunt. So unless we get further confirmation either way, that is what stays canon for me.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Bully is so simular to GTA it's very stupid for it not to be in the same universe.

 

[Reginald]

The Lord of the Rings shares similarities with Harry Potter. They both involve wizards and spells and magical beasties. But they aren't part of the same universe.

Half Life shares similarities with Halo. They both have ambiguous lead characters who shoot guns at aliens. But they aren't part of the same universe.


Catch my drift? :E

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Bully and GTA have the same creators. HA

 

[Hectic Glenn]

That is irrevelevant, not all developers create all their games in mind of linking them all together, Bully clearly is separate from GTA universes. It's only similarity comes from the engine and artistic direction taken by Rockstar. You can't bundle the two together just because it 'feels like it should', some cold hard quotes from Rockstar is what you need, or you are up the creek without a paddle.

 

[Reginald]

...

Resident Evil shares similarities with Devil May Cry. They both involve killing zombies/demons and compromise gameplay for style/art direction. They are both developed by the same company. But they aren't part of the same universe.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Who gives a shit? It doesn't really matter, unless you really don't want your Niko x Jimmy pedo slash fanfic to breach canon.

Also, I will eat my hat if Jimmy makes so much as a fleeting cameo in GTA IV. That's right, I will ****ing self-cannibalize over this shit. Noooooooot gonna happen.

 

[Raziaar]

If I remember correctly, Bully is a videogame in the GTA IV world that is referenced at times.

 

[smwScott]

The problem comes when adding Bully. Do you then include Max Payne, Smuggler's Run, State of Emergency, Midnight Club or even Rockstar Table Tennis? The only game that includes references to being in the GTA universe is Manhunt. So unless we get further confirmation either way, that is what stays canon for me.

While I don't want to argue that Bully is in the same universe as the GTA3 games, there is reason to believe that it could be. Rockstar has already shown that they're willing to link unrelated games together in the canon in the case of Manhunt, and Bully is a very similar case. If anything, Bully has far more in common with GTA than Manhunt ever did. They also both served as "bridging" games between major GTA releases.

The difference between this and other Rockstar titles is huge. First of all, I can't see how it would matter if games like Midnight Club or Smuggler's Run are canon or not because they don't affect anything. But more to the point is that stylistically those games are far different. When you look at Bully, you see that the gameplay, style, art direction, and even the way they present concept art for the characters is almost exactly the same. It just feels like it's in the same universe, and since Rockstar was already willing to do that with Manhunt - it's plausible that they could tie it in somehow.

But yeah, it's unlikely. Pretty much impossible now that they've moved onto IV, but if they had released another PS2 GTA (or possibly a future PSP GTA) I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see Jimmy make a cameo.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

I got it today. And looking around on the ingame internet I think I found something that shows GTA IV exists in GTA III universe and not it's own. Now I'm still in the early part so I might have changed but go to Myroom.com and go to Ravenvamp11's profile. Theres an ad for a Everquest game, click on it. In the first paragraph it reference's the

Spoiler

Los Santos riots

I also saw a reference to Vice City.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Mega hyper super fun time win! I have just found proof that Bully and it's setting Bullworth exist in the GTA universe HA! to all those who said it wasn't.

Go watch the Ingame tv and find a show called "I'm Rich" it was on at 2:00 Tuesday ingame. There's a story about a young heiress in her teens and they talk about her father sending her to the best boarding school.
Well, They showed a shot of the school and it was The Bullworth Academy's main building. I was right! (so was smwscott but I found it)

But that's not it. They then talked about her have a tree house manned by a butler in the same school. They showed the butler and he was wearing the same apparel seen in Bully. Even the white and red striped scarf.

This is just great. I always knew it to be true but some of you had me doubting with your post's. But not now. I'm sorry I'm being a bit of a jerk about it but I love spotting reference's few others have seen and being proved right. Which is something that rarely happens for me.

 

[Slug Advisor]

This thread made me think of Death of the Author and Misaimed Fandoms.

Oh, and Buttback, ever heard of homages, references or cameos?

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Wow. I have undeniable proof and I still get this crap. Whatever. Bully exists in GTA IV case closed.

 

[Slug Advisor]

Undeniable proof? A cameo of Bully's setting? If anything, it looks like R* are playing around with the idea.

What does it matter anyway? Was Portal set in the HLverse not enough for you?

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

It matters to me because I'm right, I love Bully, I love GTA and I'm very happy about getting confirmation that one of my favorite games exists in another one of my favorite games universe.

Bully's in New England which is close to NYC thus Bullworth is close to Liberty City which means Jimmy Hopkins is about 100 miles or less away from Niko! :E I'm Happy.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Wow. I have undeniable proof and I still get this crap. Whatever. Bully exists in GTA IV case closed.

Ricky Gervais and Katt Williams appear in GTA IV. The game takes place in our universe.

UNDENIABLE PROOF.

 

[Slug Advisor]

You can find a crowbar similar to Gordon's one in SA. Half-Life is set in the GTAverse.

UNDENIABLE PROOF.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

What the hell ever. Believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to.

 

[-Psy-]

It's all a conspiracy!

 

[Slug Advisor]

Shoes, I'm not saying it's implausible, but your UNDENIABLE PROOF attitude is pretty ridiculous. I mean, you may be right, but a cameo isn't exactly proof.

 

[Reginald]

The thing is, there are explicit references, crossovers and overarching plots between GTAs 3, LCS, Advance, VC, VCS, SA and Manhunt 1 & 2.

Some of the things that happen in San Andreas only occur because of things your character did in Vice City. Nothing similar occurs in Bully.

Rockstar have stated that GTAIV is a new clean slate. Nothing in it is bogged down by continuity.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

This just in.

During the opening cutsceen for the second mission for Elizebeta, When Niko and Playboy X leave the room and Liz is saying "I'm number one" Jimmy can be seen doing the robot in the back of the room.

I have not confirmed this. And I have started a new game but It will take me a little bit to get back to that point. I hope this is true.

I just would like to point out that in San Andreas there was a cutsceen Which tied in the relation ship between Claude and Catalina and Claude could be seen. So if this Jimmy Hopkins thing is true this could be the UNDENIABLE PROOF that tie's Bully to the GTA universe.

Also I've heard that the in the new's they talk about the roller coster being moved from Bullworth. Haven't heard this.

 

[LackingSaint]

Bully's the only Rockstar game I ever played all the way through. And it was awesome.

 

[Acepilotf14]

On the show on the GTA4 television, on I'm Rich$ or whatever, one of the screens is from the bully commercial where it shows the plaque at the front entrance.. I think. It looked similar.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Yes I brought this up above. Not only does the plaque show the Bullworth crest (the crest is accurate btw) but they show Bullworth academy's main building.

 

[Slug Advisor]

Wel to be perfectly fair, both Bully and GTA are based of a similar idea and were both developed by R*, Easter Eggs pointing at eachother are only natural. You can believe whatever you want, but IMO, this is a bit of a Misleaded Fandom moment.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Well, I took back the rented copy of GTA IV so I can't confirm the Jimmy sighting. Perhaps you can. If true you really need to start thinking about the possibility that Bully is in GTA's universe.