Can an airplane fly if

[ailevation]

A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of treadmill). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyor moves at the same speed but in the opposite direction.

Can the plane take off?

:rolling:

 

[Vegeta897]

Oh god this again.

I made 2 flash movies explaining that this will work.

The answer is yes.

Please god someone close this before a huge argument starts again.

 

[Shakermaker]

Providing it builds up enough speed on the conveyor belt, yes. It will move fast through air = lift.

 

[Vegeta897]

Oh wait a minute. I'm stupid, I forgot what was the right answer lol. Shaker is right.

 

[Viperidae]

Nvm. Fail.

 

[B.Calhoun]

it wouldnt move at all

 

[HunterSeeker]

Its unable to lift. For all intents and purposes the plane is still, only its wheels are moving.

 

[ailevation]

But, with the constant acceleration wouldn't there be air coming toward the airplane?

 

[xcellerate]

Shaker, it's not going to MOVE through the air if the conveyor belt is always countering the speed of the wheels.

....are you kidding me??


How about this, if a water-plane is taking off up-stream..will it take off?!

Of course it will, because the wheels/floaters/skies/whatever have nothing to do with the plane's movement. The engines will ALWAYS suck in air, and will ALWAYS spit the air our the back. That is how airplanes move.

The wheels could be welded solid so they wont even spin, and if the tire doesn't destroy itself during take off...it will take off.

I promise you, if you look at the formula to create lift for a jet airplane, the rotational speed of wheels will NOT be found in it.

unless you guys are taking about strapping a plane to a moving runway...in which case...how is that even a question? Plane doesn't move...air can't move over it's wings...

 

[MiccyNarc]

A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of treadmill). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyor moves at the same speed but in the opposite direction.

Can the plane take off?

:rolling:

Yes, yes, a thousand ****ing times yes, anyone else that says otherwise doesn't know jack about airplanes.

And if anyone wants to argue with the aeronautical science major, go right ahead, I'll tear you a new one.

 

[Smoke]

Not this shit again.

Here's a better question.

If 0.999 recurring = 1, will the plane explode shortly after take off and kill all 386 passengers and 2 cats in the holding bay?

The answer is a hopeful yes.

 

[Vegeta897]

....are you kidding me??


How about this, if a water-plane is taking off up-stream..will it take off?!

Of course it will, because the wheels/floaters/skies/whatever have nothing to do with the plane's movement. The engines will ALWAYS suck in air, and will ALWAYS spit the air our the back. That is how airplanes move.

The wheels could be welded solid so they wont even spin, and if the tire doesn't destroy itself during take off...it will take off.

Likewise, you could make the wheels spin 1,000,000mph backwards, and the plane would still take off, the only difference would be when it takes off the wheels are now spinning, 999,800mph backwards.

unless you guys are taking about strapping a plane to a moving runway...in which case...how is that even a question? Plane doesn't move...air can't move over it's wings...

lol you just wasted your time man, I remembered right after that I was wrong. See my edit.

I feel like an idiot for thinking it was the other way for a sec because I remember discussing this and when I tried to remember which was the right answer, I fell right in the trap the question is trying to create. I remember now, the plane will take off.

 

[-Psy-]

Not this shit again.

Here's a better question.

If 0.999 recurring = 1, will the plane explode shortly after take off and kill all 386 passengers and 2 cats in the holding bay?

The answer is a hopeful yes.

Mebbe....maybe...

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

nevermind

 

[Viperidae]

If 0.999 recurring = 1, will the plane explode shortly after take off and kill all 386 passengers and 2 cats in the holding bay?

The answer is a hopeful yes.

You forget, the cats would have to be dropped from the Eiffel tower and sucked into the turbines.

 

[Ravioli]

but wont it just stay still in one place? Therefore there wont be any air pressure under the wings and it wont lift. Am i misstaken?

EDIT: nvm forgot about the jet engines lol

 

[ailevation]

Doesn't air hit you when you run on a treadmill regularly? I'd imagine same thing would happen with an airplane, but more air pressure since it's going much faster.

 

[giant384]

rofl you people are idiots. there is no such thing as acceleration and not moving at the same time. a jetstream of air has to flow over the wings of the plane and the wings, and the wings are angled so when air passes over them then it will cause it to life in the air.

 

[Vegeta897]

Doesn't air hit you when you run on a treadmill regularly? I'd imagine same thing would happen with an airplane, but more air pressure since it's going much faster.

lol... No, air doesn't hit you when you're running on a treadmill

The plane isn't going to magically hover in place. The plane actually moves forward. The takeoff will actually pretty much be exactly like normal.

Giant, if you stay in this thread, you'll soon realise you're the idiot

 

[Raziaar]

Since the propulsion of the airplane doesn't happen at the wheels(such as a human person walking on a treadmill, using his feet to propel himself forwards), the wheels are not a factor at all, and thus the treadmill isn't a factor if it's keeping the airplane stationary relative to the treadmill.

 

[ailevation]

Okay, how about this. Since the plane is able to accelerate at a constant speed on the treadmill, would if it uses it's turbines to suck in air and give itself a boost upward and forward like a forward jump and then it lifts off into the air?

 

[Dan]

The wheels cannot apply horizontal force to the plane if they spin freely. An ideal wheel is the same as having a hover cushion. I am a a mechanical engineer. The plane will take off.

 

[Raziaar]

All the wheels do on an airplane is to reduce or increase friction for takeoff and landing. That's it, they don't do anything else. They are not a factor in the ability for an aircraft to take off, they just facilitate it to happen easier.

 

[Uriel]

I am a a mechanical engineer.

I am the king of Asia, your argument is invalid.

 

[Vegeta897]

Notice how all the people who say yes it will take off either provide real arguments, or state that they are professionals in a related field. And all the people who say no, say something that doesn't make any sort of point at all like "there is no such thing as acceleration and not moving at the same time"

Now please close the thread before I kill myself. I have like this unstoppable urge to correct people, threads like these make me go insane.

 

[DreamThrall]

This doesn't make sense... If the airplane is effectively sitting still on the treadmill, how could there possibly be enough lift from the wings to allow it to take off? If that was the case, they wouldn't need multimillion dollar wind tunnels to test airplanes in, they could just put them on a bigass conveyor belt.

Yes, the airplane is accelerating, but LIFT, not ACCELERATION is what makes airplanes take off. FFS...

 

[ailevation]

okay in this picture, the plane is shown to be going at it's constant speed, appropriate for take-off on the treadtmill. While the turbine is sucking up lots of air.

then in this diagram, the plane's lift controls are pointed down so that the force from the turbine's push would make the airplane do a jump into mid-air.

is this possible? Turbines used to suck in air and since it's sucking in air it causes a boost/propulsion all at the same time the lift control panels are pointed downward, creating a air friction which will make the plane jump.

 

[Vegeta897]

This doesn't make sense... If the airplane is effectively sitting still on the treadmill, how could there possibly be enough lift from the wings to allow it to take off? If that was the case, they wouldn't need multimillion dollar wind tunnels to test airplanes in, they could just put them on a bigass conveyor belt.

Yes, the airplane is accelerating, but LIFT, not ACCELERATION is what makes airplanes take off. FFS...

Bolded is where everyone goes wrong. They always assume the plane isn't moving. This is incorrect because the jets push the plane forward, not the wheels. The wheels can spin as fast as they want in any direction really, they have nothing to do with the plane moving.

Ailevation, just stop, lol. I don't even want to know what you're talking about.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

I am the king of Asia, your argument is invalid.

There is a windmill in my beard. Therefore YOUR argument is invalid.

 

[Jimmeh]

^
That's what I was thinking. Surely if the plane is effectively not moving, there's no air flowing over the wings and creating lift?

But it's probably worth noting though that I have no real idea of what I'm talking about.

Edit - That was in response to DreamThralls post. But as everyone's saying otherwise, I'm not gonna bother questioning it.

 

[Vegeta897]

HEY LISTEN EVERYBODY. BEFORE YOU THINK YOU'RE SMART AND POST THAT IT WON'T TAKE OFF, YOU'RE FORGETTING THAT THE TREADMILL CAN'T DO SHIT TO STOP THE PLANE FROM MOVING. WE KNOW PLANES CAN'T TAKE OFF IF THEY AREN'T MOVING. BUT YOU ALWAYS ASSUME THE PLANE ISN'T MOVING, AND THAT'S INCORRECT. SO SHUT YER MOUTHS!

Thank you.

 

[DreamThrall]

Bolded is where everyone goes wrong. They always assume the plane isn't moving. This is incorrect because the jets push the plane forward, not the wheels. The wheels can spin as fast as they want in any direction really, they have nothing to do with the plane moving.

^
That's what I was thinking. Surely if the plane is effectively not moving, there's no air flowing over the wings and creating lift?

But it's probably worth noting though that I have no real idea of what I'm talking about.

Edit - That was in response to DreamThralls post. But as everyone's saying otherwise, I'm not gonna bother questioning it.

The plane could be moving whatever speed you want in relation to the treadmill, but if its NOT moving in relation to the AIR AROUND IT, there will be ZERO lift from the wings, and therefore NO TAKING OFF.

 

[Jimmeh]

@ Vegeta.

In any case, googling the problem all the results say it will take off.

Edit - Well in a second look, on the first few there's pretty much half and half saying both yes and no.

 

[AKIRA]

if a tree falls down and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?

lolzorz

 

[Raziaar]

This doesn't make sense... If the airplane is effectively sitting still on the treadmill, how could there possibly be enough lift from the wings to allow it to take off? If that was the case, they wouldn't need multimillion dollar wind tunnels to test airplanes in, they could just put them on a bigass conveyor belt.

Yes, the airplane is accelerating, but LIFT, not ACCELERATION is what makes airplanes take off. FFS...

If you have enough acceleration, you don't even need lift, from a humorous perspective. I can launch a giant square if I strap enough ****ing explosives to the bottom of it. Lift or no lift, that mother****er is going up!

 

[Vegeta897]

The plane could be moving whatever speed you want in relation to the treadmill, but if its NOT moving in relation to the AIR AROUND IT, there will be ZERO lift from the wings, and therefore NO TAKING OFF.

I'm not TALKING ABOUT SPEED IN RELATION TO THE TREADMILL. The plane IS ACTUALLY MOVING AGAINST THE AIR. IT IS GOING. ****ing understand that because it has freespinning wheels, the treadmill's movement can't ****ing affect the plane's movement because it can only spin the wheels.

 

[ailevation]

Did my idea work back on page 2?

 

[Jimmeh]

Yeah a bit more reading on it and it's clear that it would take off as normal.

Just when I first read the question the first thing that popped into my head was a plane at full throttle on a treadmill going nowhere. But obviously unlike a car, the thrust doesn't come from the wheels.

And calm down Vegeta.

 

[Krynn72]

A better question:

 

[Vegeta897]

Yeah a bit more reading on it and it's clear that it would take off as normal.

Just when I first read the question the first thing that popped into my head was a plane at full throttle on a treadmill going nowhere. But obviously unlike a car, the thrust doesn't come from the wheels.

And calm down Vegeta.

I can't help it ;(