Canadian Government?

[Fishlore]

Could a Canadian try to breifly explain what's happening with the Canadian government? I just read an article that said there was some sort of vote to disband the current government on Thursday. Is this true?

What's the root of this vote? The article didn't really talk about what issues are the cause of this. Is this unhappiness about the monarchy, or is there something more to it?

Thanks.

 

[Feath]

Why would it be about the Monarchy?

 

[CptStern]

the government will dissolve because of a no-confidence vote. Basically the current government is a minority one and because of the recent scandals the opposition is calling for an election

 

[Fishlore]

Why would it be about the Monarchy?

The article I read kept bringing up the Monarchy. Again, I didn't understand what was going on, that's why I asked.

Thanks Capt. Stern. What do you think might happen? Is this sort of thing common?

 

[The Mullinator]

All it means is what CptStern said. The only result being we get an early election. Which I am kind of happy about even though I want the current party to stay in power, the reason is because this will be the first time I will be able to vote.

Also from current polls what will likely happen is the party that is currently the official opposition (right wing) will get into power as a minority government displacing the liberals (center) and make policy decisions with the party in Quebec the Bloc Quebecois (Quebec separatist party). Also yes this kind of thing is rare but we have had several minority governments in the past.

Also this has absolutely nothing to do with the Monarchy. The only reason I can think of why that should be mentioned is because by coincident the Queen is going to be visiting Canada.

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

Also from current polls what will likely happen is the party that is currently the official opposition (right wing) will get into power as a minority government displacing the liberals (center) and make policy decisions with the party in Quebec the Bloc Quebecois (Quebec separatist party).

I just read in the paper that the Liberals are actually on top again, which is really interesting. Thank god for that, Harper is such a tool, it's not even funny.

 

[The Mullinator]

I just read in the paper that the Liberals are actually on top again, which is really interesting. Thank god for that, Harper is such a tool, it's not even funny.

Excellent, that is good to hear. Harper really is a tool. Even if I liked conservatives I still wouldn't vote for him.

 

[CptStern]

harper is a tool alrighty, albeit a scary one. Layton's my man but he'll never get into office

 

[The Mullinator]

WOAH!!! Major things happening now! Belinda Stronach defected and is now a Liberal!

This just keeps getting even more interesting.

 

[CptStern]

heheh I was just listening to the Current on cbc that had her on the show. Thee interviewer skewered her when he brought up a speech in which she said Paul martin wasnt fit to be prime minister ..yet she's joined his cabinet

 

[The Mullinator]

heheh I was just listening to the Current on cbc that had her on the show. He interviewer skewered her when he brought up a speech in which she said Paul martin wasnt fit to be prime minister ..yet she's joined his cabinet

Ya I saw that. However I don't blame her for outright defecting when apparently she was completely chewed out by Harper in private last week. Apparently he told her she would never amount to anything in the conservative party.

 

[CptStern]

really? Never liked harper

I dont blame her for defecting either ..I mean the conservatives care little for the stability of this country if they make deals with the bloc quebecois in an attempt to seize power

 

[BirdMan]

Personally, I think the liberals need to get out. I'm nowhere close to conservative, hell i'm 500% more left wing then right wing, but heck, they've been doing too much shit lately, and if that scandal can't take em out, nothing will. Im a Quebec separatist so that's why I don't care if the conservative gets on top of the country because IMO, that will just help Quebec to leave faster :bounce: .

 

[Tr0n]

the government will dissolve because of a no-confidence vote. Basically the current government is a minority one and because of the recent scandals the opposition is calling for an election

Kinda reminds me of Star Wars episode 1..

 

[CptStern]

hehe refresh my memory, I saw it but lost interest 30 seconds into it so it's all a blur

 

[Newbie's Journey]

I think they have made a game for Quebec separatist

 

[Tr0n]

hehe refresh my memory, I saw it but lost interest 30 seconds into it so it's all a blur

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html

Palpatine's moment of opportunity came as a result of a trade embargo. The Trade Federation, in protest of government measures that would tax their outlying trade routes, blockaded and invaded Naboo. Naboo's planetary leader, Queen Amidala, rushed to Coruscant for Palpatine's aid. Together, the two pleaded to the Senate for intervention, only to see their request stalemated by Trade Federation filibustering. Frustrated by the government's inability to do anything, Queen Amidala acted upon Palpatine's suggestion, and called for a Vote of No Confidence in the Republic's leadership.

Chancellor Valorum was voted out of office, and Palpatine was soon nominated to succeed him. The crisis on Naboo prompted a strong sympathy vote, and Palpatine became Chancellor. He promised to reunite the disaffected, and bring order and justice to the government.

...and we all know who palpatine truely is.

 

[CptStern]

...hmmm is there cliffe notes version? I lost interest after "Palpatine's moment ..."

 

[Tr0n]

...hmmm is there cliffe notes version? I lost interest after "Palpatine's moment ..."

Basically they voted for no confidence and got that evil old bastard into power.

There damn't...and yes it was a boring movie.

 

[CptStern]

what was that about star wars ..I lost interest ..hehe ..ya it was boring in the sense that I dont remember not one scene from that movie ..which is rare cuz I usually remember every movie I've seen

 

[diluted]

I didn't vote for the Liberals last election (I threw my vote away to the Greens, actually ) but I definately would have voted for them in the election that could have been forced today. My opinion of the Conservative Party and Harper is pretty low, what with this blatant power grab (even when a majority of Canadians don't want to go to the polls right now) and the fact that his party aligned itself with the Bloc Quebecois, a party that is determined to break up our country. I'm reserving my judgement of the Liberals until the Gomery Report is issued, which is what most Canadians want to do... the Conservatives couldn't seem to understand that. Too bad for them I guess.

 

[A True Canadian]

If anything, their actions have made me despise the Conservatives even more. Harper's alliance with the Bloq showed that he will do absolutely anything for power. He's not the type I want to run Canada.

That's why I too, am waiting for the Gomery Report before I make my decision. If it's proven that Paul Martin didn't have a part in the scandal, then I'll vote him back in (I'm so used to Liberals anyway).

However, if it's revealed that he did have a part to play in the scandal, then I'll go with Jack Layton. In this whole fiasco of the past couple of months, he's the one who acted the most professional/mature. The only concern with the NDP is that the last time they were in office, they spent too much too quickly (increasing our debt, and in turn increasing our taxes to make up for it).

I'm just glad that the vote passed, and we can move on with our lives.


/me goes back to focusing on the NHL lockout...

 

[JJiggssaw]

No...

Uh... dude the NDP was never in power. N-E-V-E-R. That party that DID cause the huge deficit was the Progressive Conservatives, and Paul Martin as finance minister pretty much cleaned it all up.

Now he has his own party's mess to clean up.

Good luck Martin!

 

[xLostx]

All hail communist Canada!

 

[mortiz]

In soviet canada the moose hunt you :O

 

[trizzm]

soon there will be a new country in north america, that's what's happening basically. as for the rest, it will stay pretty much the same. by buying that vote they only pushed it a bit further down the road.

 

[BirdMan]

soon there will be a new country in north america, that's what's happening basically. as for the rest, it will stay pretty much the same. by buying that vote they only pushed it a bit further down the road.

I believe in that too, this scandal may not have a big impact on English Canada, but here in Quebec, it's a boost for the separatist and the idea of Quebec as a Country is really strong and we must open our eyes on. I'd like to know what the english canadians think about the separation of Quebec.

 

[The Mullinator]

I believe in that too, this scandal may not have a big impact on English Canada, but here in Quebec, it's a boost for the separatist and the idea of Quebec as a Country is really strong and we must open our eyes on. I'd like to know what the english canadians think about the separation of Quebec.

Most think it will result in the breakup of the rest of Canada. They also feel that if Quebec seperates that it will be more of a problem for Quebecers than the rest of Canada.

 

[trizzm]

yeah, we'll have to get used to not having our money stolen, to paying low taxes just like everybody else, having an office that cares for it's populace, it also means survival of a french state and culture in north america etc etc, you are right major changes on the way, I hope we'll handle it well enough

and I'll explain what's going on since western canadian media must believably be liberal. 332 million dollars which were headed for the national treasury of quebec, were put in the pockets of a handful of hypocritic, federalist bastards who were friends with the liberal party of quebec instead. for absolutely no reason/work/whatever. usually people call this fraud or robbery. the rest of canada somehow wonders how come we're pissed. however we do see the action with new revelations daily on the news, and what I can say is that the liberals are getting owned on every side, and it's the last time EVER, a liberal steps foot in office.

For those not in the situation, i'll do some imagery. You are an Albertan. Your province is ruled by the Tories. but you are Liberal. The Tories put up an election campaign, and put the funds (that come straight off your paycheck) into the hands of a few redistribution agencies. The said companies never distribute the money, very probably having a six-week rhumba in the bahamas instead. The Tories wash their hands of it, blame everyone else, and forget the whole issue.
Well replace the Tories with Liberals and Liberals with Quebecers, and you have the current events.
I wish I was making this all up. I used to like Canada and totally put the past aside. However they can't seem to do much other than prove my patriot ancestors were right to fight them in the name of common justice.

 

[The Mullinator]

yeah, we'll have to get used to not having our money stolen, to paying low taxes just like everybody else, having an office that cares for it's populace, it also means survival of a french state and culture in north america etc etc, you are right major changes on the way, I hope we'll handle it well enough

:sigh: Is that what hardcore separatists tell you? Last time I checked Ontarians pay pretty much the same in Federal taxes and we don't get any of these equalization payments like Quebec does. Plus you obviously have no idea how many business contracts are diverted away from Ontario to Quebec by the federal government. Also notice how many politicians are currently from Quebec and how many past Prime Ministers are from Quebec.

Also read this:
http://www.global-economics.ca/dth.chap15.htm

Whether you want to accept it or not Quebec isn't exactly a rich province. Thats why it gets equalization payments.

Also don't talk to me about the fact you will be the last surviving French nation in North America. The fact that Quebec even exists as a french speaking province here is incredible considering what could have happened. Plus it isn't the only french speaking area in all of Canada. There are a huge number of french speaking towns in Ontario and Manitoba. Plus your culture has lasted, and remained unique and even evolved in unique ways despite being part of a mostly english speaking nation for many years. In fact with the almost draconian use of language laws I would be surprised if Quebec culture will change at all given separation.

I would also like to point out that there are signs that the Bloc and pro-yes groups may have done the same as the Liberals when it comes to the ad-scams during the same time period.

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

:sigh: Is that what hardcore separatists tell you? Last time I checked Ontarians pay pretty much the same in Federal taxes and we don't get any of these equalization payments like Quebec does. Plus you obviously have no idea how many business contracts are diverted away from Ontario to Quebec by the federal government. Also notice how many politicians are currently from Quebec and how many past Prime Ministers are from Quebec.

Also read this:
http://www.global-economics.ca/dth.chap15.htm

Whether you want to accept it or not Quebec isn't exactly a rich province. Thats why it gets equalization payments.

Also don't talk to me about the fact you will be the last surviving French nation in North America. The fact that Quebec even exists as a french speaking province here is incredible considering what could have happened. Plus it isn't the only french speaking area in all of Canada. There are a huge number of french speaking towns in Ontario and Manitoba. Plus your culture has lasted, and remained unique and even evolved in unique ways despite being part of a mostly english speaking nation. In fact with the almost draconian use of language laws I would be surprised if Quebec culture will change at all given separation.

Quoted for emphasis.
Seperatists are... dim

(referring to a post made earlier...)I'd vote for Layton too, if I thought the NDP actually stood a chance. It's all about strategic voting; I'll vote for anyone as long as Harper doesn't get into office... Christ what a douche

 

[trizzm]

i'm pretty sure you have heard about the Budget of the Year One(it can be viewed at http://www.pq.org/nv/tmp/finance_quebec.pdf ), which more or less proves that a sovereign quebec would gain 5.3 billion yearly for the first three years. that said, I know that quebec is poor I know the facts, however this will only change as we get rid of liberals who centralise all of the industry into Montreal and out of the rural regions causing massive unemployment.
Also if equation is so fair why do we need Quebec Sales Tax to be added on top of the Products and Services Tax, raising it all up to 15%. That's right nothing in quebec really costs 100$ it's 115. We have to calculate each time we buy stuff it the tax won't be too much. I can tell you absolutely no person who lives here holds that tax dear. It was also proven it will automatically go away as soon as we're sovereign, without any loss.
Oh and, about two million french people persist throughout canada outside quebec? new france is saved!!

edit- SEPARATISTS ARE DIM!! what else now! that's like me saying all Liberals are a bunch of thieves! (however evidence points to the latter.) If anything we're logical. and don't no ****ing canadian put some vague accusations on the Bloc for doing what the liberals are doing right now. no ****ing way. or back your sayings with evidence like we do. Also we'd have noticed. Almost all of the Parti Québécois is composed of raw economists, same with the Bloc. To my knowledge quebecer liberals have been pointed out the ad-scams by members of the parti québécois (after that sageman Jean Brault thought he'd get away with the whole thing if he backstabbed a few of his friends.). notice your own ****ing goofs, then you can assume others do the same thing.

 

[The Mullinator]

i'm pretty sure you have heard about the Budget of the Year One(it can be viewed at http://www.pq.org/nv/tmp/finance_quebec.pdf ), which more or less proves that a sovereign quebec would gain 5.3 billion yearly for the first three years. that said, I know that quebec is poor I know the facts, however this will only change as we get rid of liberals who centralise all of the industry into Montreal and out of the rural regions causing massive unemployment.
Also if equation is so fair why do we need Quebec Sales Tax to be added on top of the Products and Services Tax, raising it all up to 15%. That's right nothing in quebec really costs 100$ it's 115. We have to calculate each time we buy stuff it the tax won't be too much. I can tell you absolutely no person who lives here holds that tax dear. It was also proven it will automatically go away as soon as we're sovereign, without any loss.
Oh and, about two million french people persist throughout canada outside quebec? new france is saved!!

err we here in Ontario have provincial sales tax as well and naturally none of us like it, and I don't think seperation for Quebec would make that go away. I also don't think you read that article I posted. You think unemployment is bad in Quebec now? Think about what will happen if Quebec seperates and all of those major Canadian businesses in Quebec relocate their main offices and headquarters to Toronto. I also have not heard of the federal government relocating jobs from rural Quebec into Montreal. If anything that sounds like something the Quebec government would have done.

Also I find it laughable that Quebec thinks it is taxed unfairly by the federal government

The income tax system also works to Quebec's advantage. Because personal income tax takes a larger percentage of earnings as incomes rise and because Quebeckers have lower average incomes than other Canadians, they pay less in federal taxes as a group than their population share. In 1992, Quebeckers contributed less than 23 per cent of federal revenues, while accounting for more than 25 per cent of the population.

Add to that the fact I already stated how we in Ontario have to pay our own provincial sales taxes.

Also don't tell me it has been "proven" that there would not be any loss due to separation. Anyone claiming that is either a fool or hasn't properly looked at the numbers, or is stretching the truth by a very long way.

Seriously read that article I posted. It also talks about the negative impacts that seperation would have on the rest of Canada as well.

 

[trizzm]

ontario does not have 15% sales tax but 7%. I never said I wanted it to disappear, just get rid of the additional 8%.
There would be no loss due to separation, globally. YOU read the document I pointed out. Yours is clearly a liberal economical scare tactic like i've seen many. Proof is it does not include any fact. like if a canadian page would tell the truth about separation
Also I never said we were taxed unfairly. But look at any chart, if you find any fairness in the redistribution of taxes, get better glasses.

 

[CptStern]

in my experience there's no changing the mind of a separatist ...it'll harm both sides

 

[A True Canadian]

Uh... dude the NDP was never in power. N-E-V-E-R. That party that DID cause the huge deficit was the Progressive Conservatives, and Paul Martin as finance minister pretty much cleaned it all up.

Now he has his own party's mess to clean up.

Good luck Martin!

Oh yeah, what the hell was I thinking??? :rolling:

Seriously read that article I posted. It also talks about the negative impacts that seperation would have on the rest of Canada as well.

With Quebec gone, it will be difficult to pay off Canada's debts, but on the other hand, with the largest province gone, Canada could take resources that would have gone to Quebec and put them elsewhere.

The problem is that no one can really predict what would happen if Quebec seperated. It could benefit Canada, benefit Quebec, benefit both, or quite possibly destroy both economies. It'll likely be the latter.

 

[The Mullinator]

ontario does not have 15% sales tax but 7%. I never said I wanted it to disappear, just get rid of the additional 8%.
There would be no loss due to separation, globally. YOU read the document I pointed out. Yours is clearly a liberal economical scare tactic like i've seen many. Proof is it does not include any fact. like if a canadian page would tell the truth about separation
Also I never said we were taxed unfairly. But look at any chart, if you find any fairness in the redistribution of taxes, get better glasses.

heh I tried reading it. My french isn't all that great. Also I wouldn't call what I posted a liberal scare tactic because the evidence you have supporting that opinion is the same as I have supporting my opinion that whatever you posted is most likely a separatest propaganda message filled with misinformation, stretchings of the truth and conveniently missing chunks of information to further support for the seperatest movement.

In fact I have to say that what you posted is not as legitimate as what I posted simply because it looks as if what you posted was written by the very people who are trying to convince people to seperate from Canada while what I posted was most likely written by an independant individual.

I also just looked up the sales tax in Quebec:
http://www.taxtips.ca/provincial_sales_tax.htm
I'm not sure what this 15% tax is comming from unless you including the GST with the provincial tax. Which is what we also do in Ontario.

 

[trizzm]

right it's in french I forgot. yes this budget is from the people who promote separatism but it has been verified by various qualified people and has been accepted throughout as legitimate. no one to date has came up against it. of course liberals pointed out "omissions" (to be expected in this kind of essay) but everything actually inside the paper makes sense. http://www.lautjournal.info/default.asp?manchette=155 this article from the eic of an independant newspaper describes my point of view justly (in english).