Celsius 41.11

Absinthe said:
Retalitory drivel that isn't worth my time.
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Ah yes of course, but anti-american, Michael Moore is? Funny how he tells the public he makes his movies (they are not documentaries) to help America becasue he "loves the American people so much." Then, we hear comments like these:

''They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet," Moore told Britain's Mirror newspaper recently, referring to his fellow citizens as a whole.


And that's not all Moore had to say ''We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.''


''That's why we're smiling all the time,'' Moore told a rapturous throng in Munich. ''You can see us coming down the street. You know, 'Hey! Hi! How's it going?' We've got that big [expletive] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren't loaded down.''

To a crowd in Cambridge, Moore intoned: ''You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe.''

Here's Moore's reaction to the 9/11 attacks, offered while the rubble at Ground Zero was still smoldering: ''We, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we had better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants.''
 
I could care less about either one of them. They're both just propoganda for their beliefs.
 
Dude tell me where I can download it, and I'll watch it, but I have to tell you I am a commie to US standarts so I'll be critical.
 
I want to see ... all of the ... other stuff to Michael Moore's stuff. If these answer questions, I'll be happy.
 
I've seen "Michael Moore Hates America". I think it's safe for me to assume that this film is similar in terms of it's low quality and hollowness.

Moore, wether you like him or not, made his films off of current politics. Films like MMHA and C41.11 were born out of nothing but retaliation in an attempt to jump on the pseudo-documentary bandwagon (many people accuse Moore of caring only for profit, yet these filmmakers are just as guilty and have even more thinly-veiled intentions). Because they lack any worthy impetus, their arguments come off as pathetically weak.

This kind of shit just degenerates into a pointless political tag game. Fight bullshit with more bullshit.
 
Hiji said:
Ah yes of course, but anti-american, Michael Moore is? Funny how he tells the public he makes his movies (they are not documentaries) to help America becasue he "loves the American people so much." Then, we hear comments like these:

''They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet," Moore told Britain's Mirror newspaper recently, referring to his fellow citizens as a whole.


And that's not all Moore had to say ''We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.''


''That's why we're smiling all the time,'' Moore told a rapturous throng in Munich. ''You can see us coming down the street. You know, 'Hey! Hi! How's it going?' We've got that big [expletive] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren't loaded down.''

To a crowd in Cambridge, Moore intoned: ''You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe.''

Here's Moore's reaction to the 9/11 attacks, offered while the rubble at Ground Zero was still smoldering: ''We, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we had better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants.''
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well I guess the truth hurts
 
Hiji said:
Ah yes of course, but anti-american, Michael Moore is? Funny how he tells the public he makes his movies (they are not documentaries) to help America becasue he "loves the American people so much." Then, we hear comments like these:

''They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet," Moore told Britain's Mirror newspaper recently, referring to his fellow citizens as a whole.


And that's not all Moore had to say ''We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.''


''That's why we're smiling all the time,'' Moore told a rapturous throng in Munich. ''You can see us coming down the street. You know, 'Hey! Hi! How's it going?' We've got that big [expletive] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren't loaded down.''

To a crowd in Cambridge, Moore intoned: ''You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe.''

Here's Moore's reaction to the 9/11 attacks, offered while the rubble at Ground Zero was still smoldering: ''We, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we had better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants.''
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Do you attack him for saying the truth or what?

That last bit is so right...
 
I don't need a bunch of conservative idiots telling me Moore stretches facts. I mean come on, how are you going to consider something that has Ann Coutler in it truthful. :dozey:
 
shadow6899 said:
on an offtopic note, hey qck where the hell is hamburg?? i live in syracuse and never heard of it...
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Ha ha! Hamburg! qckbeam's a Hamburger!

...

*retreats into the shadow from whence he came*
 
Youknow, there is one VERY easy way to tell that moore isn't lying.

No one has sued him.

Do you THINK someone would EVER publish his movie(s)/books if they were just lies? They would ge sued before they could say i'm a rich piggy. Moore has a large team of lawyers going through everything he publishes, just to make sure that there's no chance that he can get sued for saying something that can't be proven.
 
shadow6899 said:
yea like they all said hiji, i guess the truth does hurt... the average person in america is an idiot to the standards of the world, especially when it comes to foreighn affairs and coverups. i never watched 9/11 and never plan on it. but i can say what u said michael moore said is very very true, and just hit's home in so many ways.

on an offtopic note, hey qck where the hell is hamburg?? i live in syracuse and never heard of it...
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And let me guess, you are an exception?
 
Good quotes by M.M. :thumbs:

If any of the facts, he tells in F9/11 were not true, republicans would have used it a long time ago...but everything is correct ;)

btw: Hamburg is a big City in northern germany
 
Not true at all. He just distorts the truth. I welcome you to argue Dave Kopel's 51 points.
 
gun-toting god fearing Dave Kopel? sorry he has a conflict of interest, ...........not valid
 
seinfeldrules said:
Not true at all. He just distorts the truth. I welcome you to argue Dave Kopel's 51 points.
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If he did distort the truth, wouldn't you think someone like say... the WEAPONS industry would sue him?
 
MaxiKana said:
If he did distort the truth, wouldn't you think someone like say... the WEAPONS industry would sue him?
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I think it's more of a case of not revealing the whole picture; he makes very biased arguments. He doesn't ever lie, he just purposefully leaves things out to make his outlook more beleivable. I hated Farenheit 9/11 for this very reason; it was so damned one-sided.
 
You expect him to put across both sides? He doesn't like the other side, why should he fight for it.

That's up to them, sorry.

Regardless of leaving out certain info (which is important) MM raises good points and he at least makes the average joe aware of some of the things FOX news leaves out.

Par example; the election scandel, the Bin Laden family being flown out the country, the prior warnings to 9/11 etc. If the right have an answer for them it is up to them to reveal it.
 
Why can't it be like the old fashioned days..
If you didn't like somebody, shoot him.
I hate bush but im not siding with moore.
Personally, but said he would take it slowly and war was a last resort. War was one of the first ideas in bushs mind in my opinon. People use things that osama did again saddam which personally makes no sense... I certainly don't care if alot of countries thought saddam has weapons of mass desturction. Everyone might think this one guy killed another guy but without any evidence its stupid reasoning. I hate bush, there were plenty of other countries who were and are and have nuclear weapons of mass desturction that kinda hate america. In my opinon bush lied to me, and he better not start...another...war... I still can't believe his in office :(. We should of got some independent guy in there. We should of got some guy that can speek proper english, and knowns more than the game "Spin the Globe"(A game in which you spin a globe, place your finger on the globe whereever you place it is where you declare war).

I hope bush actually does something good once.
I think the last election most voters voted for kerry.
-They hated bush

Those who voted for bush
-Hated kerry.

I think neither canidate is that good and hopefully next election we will have some better...or even decent canidates. Cuz and kerry well... both of them were..... rather..... I can't find the words anyone wanna help me out?
 
gun-toting god fearing Dave Kopel? sorry he has a conflict of interest, ...........not valid
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And then there is American hating, gun right destroying, God abhorrer Michael Moore. Oh, do I see a comparison here? If he is as extreme as you claim Stern, it shouldnt be too hard for a man such as yourself to prove him wrong. You have yet to prove any of the points wrong, only attack his character. What a shocker.

If he did distort the truth, wouldn't you think someone like say... the WEAPONS industry would sue him?
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It isnt illegal to cut sound/video clips, exaggerate, and do other very questionable practices.
 
Sorry, I had to laugh at every post herein. You're all wrong :D

It will be proven in 42 days. ^^
 
that's the shittiest trailer ever, if they're gonna take a stab at a talented film maker they might want to get some skills themselves.
 
Most of the counter-movies to Moore's are really tacky, cheap knockoffs of his own style, they're poorly done, and the information used is worse than moores.
 
Yeah, can't say the trailer for the film showed off...erm, anything relevant at all. Some protesters, Sept. 11th footage, Bush and Kerry speaking...that's it. What was it supposed to do achieve exactly?
 
Hiji said:
Great moive exposing Moores lies and the scandels of the liberal left.
Anyone who has seen Farenheit 911 needs to see this movie, you will learn a lot.
http://www.celsius4111.com/
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Don't watch one propaganda movie about another. All you'll get are two opposing viewpoints each having different extremes and niether entirely accurate.

If you want to know about Fahrenheit 9/11 go here and read this entire site. It's a bit more effort than watching a movie, but it's worth it. ;)

http://www.newsaic.com/f911index.html
 
He_Who_Is_Steve said:
Ha ha! Hamburg! qckbeam's a Hamburger!

...

*retreats into the shadow from whence he came*
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Hamburg-Germany> yes the Hamburger was invented there but was a fish Burger not a Meat Burger
 
yes the Hamburger was invented there but was a fish Burger not a Meat Burger
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Wasn't it like... the kind.. or shape... of the meat in today's hamburgers was invented there? Just what I remember.

(Though Hamburg is famous for its 'fish-burgers')
 
seinfeldrules said:
And then there is American hating, gun right destroying, God abhorrer Michael Moore. Oh, do I see a comparison here? If he is as extreme as you claim Stern, it shouldnt be too hard for a man such as yourself to prove him wrong. You have yet to prove any of the points wrong, only attack his character. What a shocker.
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I've proved that he is a hypocrite ...every oner of his points are on insignificant small little details that can be easily explained away as artistic license. Not once does he examine the real issues presented in F9/11 (much in the same way as you do seinfeldrules). He glosses over the big issues and attempts to discredit moore by using the time-honoured method of nitpicking little points in an attempt to invalidate the whole ..it's questionable at best and outright.


F9/11 is a documentary it's supposed to be an emotional one-sided look at a particular subject. Just as Ken burns was chastised for removing some facts or relying too heavily on a single source when he made his documentaries on Baseball, Jazz and the Civil war, but that didnt invalidate the entire documentary, if anything it made it more poignant as the cracks were filled later on. Moore may have presented facts in such a way as to make more of an impact, his research is still sound. Which is evidenced by the fact he has no pending lawsuits on any of the facts in the movie


seinfeldrules said:
It isnt illegal to cut sound/video clips, exaggerate, and do other very questionable practices.
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see above
 
hahaha you still cannot refute them. Claiming they are 'insignificant' is akin to claiming all of F9/11 is insignificant, he hits upon most parts of the movie. Just admit defeat and move on, its quite clear you are grasping at thin air.

PS Your definition of a 'documentary' is laughable. You described almost the exact opposite of what it should be. Emotional? hahahahah

www.dictionary.com
Documentary- Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.
 
:upstare: suuuuuuuuure

I'm not wasting my time researching each and every single small insignificant point when he wont even have the decency to examine all the issues presented in the movie ..not just the ones he can twist to agree with his agenda. Seinferules, dont even go there cuz I have a list a mile long of things you just wont answer ..Orlando Bosch, Iran UN resolution, WMD etc etc etc ..whould you like to try again?


I dont care about F9/11, It's not my raison d'etre (he's speaking french let's lynch him!!!) Moore is not my source of all things anti-iraq war. He's just a bit player in a large stage filled with major players making major discoveries around the lies and deceit of the war. There are far more credible and more impactful evidence out there.


btw what you describe as a documentary is non-existant ..it's just not possible to have a completely non-objective viewpoint in a documentary ..much in the same way it is impossible to have a non-objective historical body of work. The bias of the journalist creeps in no matter what measures are taken ..it's in our human nature to become emotionally attached to an issue, you cant objectively seperate the 2


btw here's a good read on the issue:


"I want to start with a question about the word documentary. How comfortable are you using that label?

I do use it, for convenience, but I hate it. Why? Because everybody thinks they know what the term means, because everybody has seen some television programs labeled documentary neither televisual "white papers", that is, so-called objective journalistic presentations of social problems, or history programs that chronicle certain social movements, or portraits of famous artists or historical figures and the like. Unconsciously embedded in these forms called documentary is the conceit of "the real", which substantiates the truth claims made by these films. These general notions about documentary film produce a fairly limited understanding of what non-fiction cinema can be and do"


source
 
I'm not wasting my time researching each and every single small insignificant point when he wont even have the decency to examine all the issues presented in the movie ..not just the ones he can twist to agree with his agenda. Seinferules, dont even go there cuz I have a list a mile long of things you just wont answer ..Orlando Bosch, Iran UN resolution, WMD etc etc etc ..whould you like to try again?
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He examined all the issues known to be deceitful or false. Why would he post anything else? You arent making sense. He isnt using opinion to refute Moore, but fact.

I have answered over the Iranian UN Resolution, Orlando Boosch, and WMD. All of them! The only one avoiding the issues here is you. I admitted that the US was wrong on WMD, but made a correct call on the given intel. You never responded to my rebuttal of the Iranian UN resolution, you left the topic. You never admit anything against your cause and that is quite dangerous.

I dont care about F9/11, It's not my raison d'etre (he's speaking french let's lynch him!!!) Moore is not my source of all things anti-iraq war. He's just a bit player in a large stage filled with major players making major discoveries around the lies and deceit of the war. There are far more credible and more impactful evidence out there.
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If you dont care about this topic, then stay out. I dont see why you are arguing about something you care nothing about.

PS I posted the definition of documentary. How is it anything else? If I remember correctly, Moore even admitted it was propoganda.

www.dictionary.com
Documentary- Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.
 
seinfeldrules said:
He examined all the issues known to be deceitful or false. Why would he post anything else? You arent making sense. He isnt using opinion to refute Moore, but fact.
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fact???? what about the foxnews election results ...am I supposed to take his word on the matter that they received the results seconds before PBS? How can you prove something like that? it's subjective at best

seinfeldrules said:
I have answered over the Iranian UN Resolution, Orlando Boosch, and WMD. All of them!
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what answers? you gave me non-answers "the US made the right decision" ...that's not an answer, it's a cop-out. I want facts to back up your answers, or else why even bother?

so you want to try answer my questions again, this time providing evidence to back up your statement

seinfeldrules said:
The only one avoiding the issues here is you. I admitted that the US was wrong on WMD, but made a correct call on the given intel.
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no, bullshit, I have proved time and again that the bullshit intel came from a CIA stooge who wasnt even in Iraq at the time: current Prime minister of Iraq Iyad Allawi

seinfeldrules said:
You never responded to my rebuttal of the Iranian UN resolution, you left the topic. You never admit anything against your cause and that is quite dangerous.
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:upstare:

because you were sidestepping the issue and I got tired of your non-answers. I want real concrete evidence that what they did was the right thing to do ..you couldnt even give me a semblance of an answer ...btw you cant possibly answer that without making yourself look like a hypocrite


seinfeldrules said:
If you dont care about this topic, then stay out. I dont see why you are arguing about something you care nothing about.
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no I'm just tired of all you conservative morons jumping on Moore's back when there's bigger fish to fry. You get all hot ad bothered foaming at the mouth for the public execution of Moore (figuritively) for his apparent "bending of the truth" yet you completely whitewash the the outright lies that led to the invasion and subjugation of the iraqi people
 
DeusExMachinia said:
I could care less about either one of them. They're both just propoganda for their beliefs.
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Quoted for truth.
 
CptStern - 1 seinfeldrules - 0 ;)

I do think Moore plays with the facts and has the editing power to make things look more dramatic than they really are. However, he is a liberal and HIS documentary will reflect HIS views. I simply don't know how the hell you can listen to some right wing movie with Ann Coutler in it and take everything as truthful (this is no different than liberals taking everything Moore says for 100% fact). I still don't know how Coutler was in the movie since she admitted she has never seen F9/11, she only read about it :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:.
 
fact???? what about the foxnews election results ...am I supposed to take his word on the matter that they received the results seconds before PBS? How can you prove something like that? it's subjective at best
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Look at the links he provided....


what answers? you gave me non-answers "the US made the right decision" ...that's not an answer, it's a cop-out. I want facts to back up your answers, or else why even bother?
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Untrue. If you need to reread my answers to see evidence of this, then go for it.

no, bullshit, I have proved time and again that the bullshit intel came from a CIA stooge who wasnt even in Iraq at the time: current Prime minister of Iraq Iyad Allawi
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And it was the intel given to Bush, blame the CIA for this, not Bush. Hopefully the new intel. reform that Bush helped to pass will help to prevent these kinds of mistakes in the future.

because you were sidestepping the issue and I got tired of your non-answers. I want real concrete evidence that what they did was the right thing to do ..you couldnt even give me a semblance of an answer ...btw you cant possibly answer that without making yourself look like a hypocrite
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Again, you were arguing about something that happened in 1983, when the bulk of the Kurdish genocide campaign began in 1988. It was referred to as the Anfal Campaign.


no I'm just tired of all you conservative morons jumping on Moore's back when there's bigger fish to fry. You get all hot ad bothered foaming at the mouth for the public execution of Moore (figuritively) for his apparent "bending of the truth" yet you completely whitewash the the outright lies that led to the invasion and subjugation of the iraqi people
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So you're basically saying its OK for Moore to lie/distort/deceive because it is against Bush?
 
Lemonking said:
Hamburg-Germany> yes the Hamburger was invented there but was a fish Burger not a Meat Burger
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Naw, dude...see, if a person is from New York, then they're a New Yorker, so then a person from Hamburg would be a Hamburger!
 
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