Clash of Civilizations?

[Man|-|unter]

In a recent global opinion survey, a majority of people questioned said they felt relations between Muslims and Westerners around the world were generally bad.

Who do you think is to blame for this, Muslims or people in Western countries? Why?

 

[Absinthe]

Both?

Western civilization has encroached, intervened to prop up dictators, generally ****ed about in foreign affairs, and has had its fair share of religious motives.

Muslims around the world have pretty much vindicated views of them as savage, backward people with their forms of retaliation and protest, while engaging in spectacularly retarded displays (ie. outrage over the Danish cartoons). And moral outcry over such bloodshed has been in small supply, usually with token sentiments.

 

[Man|-|unter]

It's hard to pin the blame on anyone. The problem with the Muslims in Britain, certainly the South Asian community, is they came from very low social backgrounds, from villages in Pakistan. These people had no other option but to ghettoize, and that's what happened.

The gap between civilizations was so great that they could not meaningfully integrate. The second generation was born and went gone to school here, and they suffer from a quite serious inferiority complex. Here are these young men, full of energy and aspirations, but it takes a while to integrate into the upper echelons of any society. I think there is a lot of frustration among a group which feels it has not been able to get where it could have or should have. And at the same time there is injustice against Muslims in the world.

The problem is that Muslims don't realize that it has also happened against other people. Injustice has happened to Christians and to Jews. The problem - and this is something the Jewish community is equally guilty of - is that when you are being persecuted you feel that that is the only persecution that has happened. The Jews feel that there is no greater tragedy than the Holocaust. The Muslims feel that the crimes perpetrated in Palestine and Iraq are the biggest crimes that are happening. What they don't realize is that if these crimes came to an end, Muslims would still have a serious problem of reform. Sixty percent of our population is still illiterate; women are totally marginalized in many of these societies. You've got a long, long way to reform. What worries much more is that issues such as Palestine have been turned from a political problem into a religious problem. People feel that if only we get Jerusalem back we will have God on our side again.

 

[Aenama]

well said.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Q1: Both.

Q2: Because religions are awful.


/topic.

 

[Aenama]

even if if the bible says stupid things,many Christians have done great things "in the name of god"
Im sure the same thing goes for the Quran.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I can also call you "that awful Lemonking person" in the name of god.
See how meaningless that statement is?

 

[Aenama]

.

 

[Jintor]

?

 

[Aenama]

I called him a jackass,but then I decided to delete...now I changed my mind.



People like,Sophia School and Hans School were devout Christians,and fought against Fascism,they even gave their life.Does it say you have to give your life for freedom any where in the Bible?
No.
Yet they still sacrificed them selfs for it,in the name of god.It doesn't really matter what it says in that silly book,If someone makes inner peace with god,and good things come from it,why be a asshat like Mecha?


Religon even keeps people emotionally strong through hard times,Sometimes thats all that poorer people got.Something that Mecha that lives in Canada and goes to a University wouldn't understand.


Her last words were "Die Sonne scheint noch," meaning "The Sun still shines." [1]This was a metaphor for God and her commitment to hope for the future.


Does that make religion wrong and obsolete?Even though it kept her strong right before she got her head chopped off?


My point is,as a Christian ,even if you dont always do what it says in the bible,you can still be a good person and a good Christian,because you made inner piece with god,if there is such a thing.

 

[Geogaddi]

People do good things in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

And,Jesus Christ,learn how to use,commas.

 

[Man|-|unter]

even if if the bible says stupid things,many Christians have done great things "in the name of god"
Im sure the same thing goes for the Quran.

As you say same things go for Quran, then a large majority of people in 10 countries around the world, including Britain, thinks Muslim nations should be more economically prosperous than they are today, then why the Muslim nations' are not as prosperous as Christian countries?

 

[Aenama]

Because they cant think out of the box,Christians alot of time have easier time doing that.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Because their countries are in geographical "shit zones" as i like to call them. You try and think outside the box in all that heat and sand.

Just thinking about that climate makes me want to suicide bomb a crowded marketplace...

WOH BAD JOKE, THAT'S JUST NOT CRICKET LADS!!

 

[15357]

Hehehehe...





I couldn't help it, sorry.

 

[The Monkey]

Because, while both Christianity and Islam has a long history of violence and conflict, the west has become less religious and those christians that do remain are far more open-minded and tolerant than their muslim counter-parts. Islam on the other hand, has for the most part failed to evolve since the Dark Ages. Islam today if violent, intolerant and hateful. Christianity and secularism is not (with a few exceptions). That's the bitter truth.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Both?

Western civilization has encroached, intervened to prop up dictators, generally ****ed about in foreign affairs, and has had its fair share of religious motives.

Muslims around the world have pretty much vindicated views of them as savage, backward people with their forms of retaliation and protest, while engaging in spectacularly retarded displays (ie. outrage over the Danish cartoons). And moral outcry over such bloodshed has been in small supply, usually with token sentiments.

That's agreeable.

It all started at Troy, I miss the good ole days. :-(

 

[CptStern]

if we're talking about the current situation, it all started with 9/11 (at least on a global conscious level)...americans couldnt care less what muslims did up until then but true to form it didnt take long for some americans to pick a scapegoat

 

[Nemesis6]

I'm so hitting this. This is too good to pass up. Here is the opinion of Wafa Sultan, a secular Syrian-American psychologist. She answers the subject of this topic perfectly.

http://video.google.com/url?docid=1...Sultan&usg=AL29H233EuR0sVW7z9MiA5ktscz5RdBgxA

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Arg, more google videos.

Why not summarize the main points of the video so that I, the viewer attempting to have a discussion, don't have to?

 

[Aenama]

thats a good vid.

 

[CptStern]

I'm so hitting this. This is too good to pass up. Here is the opinion of Wafa Sultan, a secular Syrian-American psychologist. She answers the subject of this topic perfectly.

http://video.google.com/url?docid=1...Sultan&usg=AL29H233EuR0sVW7z9MiA5ktscz5RdBgxA

posted about a million times, btw she identifies herself as muslim

this point bothered me:

especially a pointed criticism that "no Jew has blown himself up in a German restaurant",

no but they have no problems with hotels

 

[Nemesis6]

Sorry, there's quite a wide variety of topics it covers. An Imam accusing her of being a heretic and refusing to debate her if she is and debunking the theory that this is a "Clash of Civilizations". I would be quite amazed if the majority of people here hadn't seen it already.

 

[Man|-|unter]

Because they cant think out of the box,Christians alot of time have easier time doing that.

I think is a mixture of the two. One can't ignore the phenomenon of globalization and the contradictions of development. It's not entirely the West's fault, although as the dominant economic force there is a lot they can do. Also, the structures which have become quite entrenched - it will take a considerable time for reform to take place and set aside the legacy of colonialism. These countries themselves could do quite a bit more.

 

[GiaOmerta]

f we're talking about the current situation, it all started with 9/11

Perhaps, but the conflict predates Christianity and Islam.

 

[CptStern]

yes but that really has nothing to do with the current situation, at least from an american perspective