Confessions of an Abu Gharib Torturer

CptStern

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Interview with an Abu Gharib Torturer

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200604/20060405.html

listen to the interview here, it starts 2 minutes in


http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200604/20060405.html

click Part 1, You need Real Player


"Among the damning photos of U.S. soldiers tormenting prisoners in Abu Ghraib, there was one that held special meaning for my first guest. It's the one in which an Iraqi prisoner cowers in front of a snarling dog---his face two feet from the dog's open mouth. A U.S. soldier is fighting to restrain the dog.

That soldier, Sgt. Michael Smith, was recently sentenced to six months in a military prison--- bringing to ten the number of people convicted for their crimes at Abu Ghraib. While high-ranking officers have been reprimanded for the scandal, according to the New York Times, no soldier with a rank higher than staff-sergeant has been convicted.

Tony Lagouranis has never met Sgt. Smith, but he has followed his case with particular interest. That's because Mr. Lagouranis was an Army interrogator at Abu Ghraib, who also conducted interrogations in which dogs were used. He began his tour in January, 2004, just after the abuse was uncovered. But disgusted with what he witnessed in Iraq, he has since left the military.

Tony Lagouranis was a specialist with the U.S. Army from 2001 to 2005. He was in Chicago."


for those of you too lazy to listen to the short interview here's a summary

- Lagouranis was an interogator at Abu Gharib after the photos of torture hit the media
- He admits to abusing prisoners, hypothermia, stress positions, dogs
- given rules by CENTCOM (US central command) detailing everything they could and couldnt do, all that I listed above was allowed
- prisoners were left outside in the cold as punishmnet, they'd leave a rectal thermometer in the prisoners to monitor them so they didnt die ..this was the navy seals
- full interrogation on at 400 prisoners, partial interrogations on over 1000, yet he only wrote reports on 12 prisoners, says believed all others were innocent
- the majority of the prisoners were innocent: "most were taxi drivers, farmers caught up in the net, wrong place at the wrong time"
- admits breaking geneva conventions and international laws ...ordered by CENTCOM
- trained to use geneva conventions but ordered to do things contrary to the conventions
- interviewer asks: "did you cross a moral line" ...he answers "yes I definately crossed the line, I wish I had disobeyed orders more"
- Force recon Marines severly beat prisoners, during questioning: smashed feet, broken hands, ribs, hitting with tools, "severly messed up"
- complained about marines, wrote reports but he doesnt believe the reports were investigated
- interrogated some near death, talks about interrogating a guy with 4 bullets in his torso
- claims the higher ups knew about all that was going on, because the orders came from on top: US central command
 
- I didn't watch the video. real player is total shit -

Yes, this is one of the top ten stupid ****ing things we have done to make everyone hate us. So why hasn't anything been done? Everyone is pointing their finger, expendable soldiers have been expended. Now what? Whats the next step? I think it would be great if some ranking officers took the fall for the world to see.

On the other hand, if they would have been killed instead of taken prisoner, would anyone have cared or noticed? Iraqis are killed and Americans are killed. It's war. Nobody says, "omfg I can't believe you shot him to death, thats not very nice"

What about the torture they use? Many of our innocents have been taken hostage, beaten, starved, and even beheaded. Is this proper Geneva convention?

Shit, I'd guess that American soldiers needed to be criminally punished. Made an example out of, because thats what we should have been doing, setting an example. This whole situation is SUCH a ****ing MESS.

Starvation and beheadings is worse than being scared(dog barking in face), made uncomfortable (outside in the cold),and ridiculed(pose naked in piles for the camera), and injured while being beaten up during interrogation.

I'm the only one that has posted a view on this so far, and I don't really know hardly anything about this... .. um. Anyone?
 
VirusType2 said:
- I didn't watch the video. real player is total shit -

Yes, this is one of the top ten stupid ****ing things we have done to make everyone hate us. So why hasn't anything been done? Everyone is pointing their finger, expendable soldiers have been expended. Now what? Whats the next step? I think it would be great if some ranking officers took the fall for the world to see.

On the other hand, if they would have been killed instead of taken prisoner, would anyone have cared or noticed? Iraqis are killed and Americans are killed. It's war. Nobody says, "omfg I can't believe you shot him to death, thats not very nice"

What about the torture they use? Many of our innocents have been taken hostage, beaten, starved, and even beheaded. Is this proper Geneva convention?

Shit, I'd guess that American soldiers needed to be criminally punished. Made an example out of, because thats what we should have been doing, setting an example. This whole situation is SUCH a ****ing MESS.

Starvation and beheadings is worse than being scared(dog barking in face), made uncomfortable (outside in the cold),and ridiculed(pose naked in piles for the camera), and injured while being beaten up during interrogation.

I'm the only one that has posted a view on this so far, and I don't really know hardly anything about this... .. um. Anyone?

I'd just blame dick cheneny.
 
VirusType2 said:
- I didn't watch the video. real player is total shit -

Yes, this is one of the top ten stupid ****ing things we have done to make everyone hate us. So why hasn't anything been done? Everyone is pointing their finger, expendable soldiers have been expended. Now what? Whats the next step? I think it would be great if some ranking officers took the fall for the world to see.

On the other hand, if they would have been killed instead of taken prisoner, would anyone have cared or noticed? Iraqis are killed and Americans are killed. It's war. Nobody says, "omfg I can't believe you shot him to death, thats not very nice"

What about the torture they use? Many of our innocents have been taken hostage, beaten, starved, and even beheaded. Is this proper Geneva convention?

Shit, I'd guess that American soldiers needed to be criminally punished. Made an example out of, because thats what we should have been doing, setting an example. This whole situation is SUCH a ****ing MESS.

Starvation and beheadings is worse than being scared(dog barking in face), made uncomfortable (outside in the cold),and ridiculed(pose naked in piles for the camera), and injured while being beaten up during interrogation.

I'm the only one that has posted a view on this so far, and I don't really know hardly anything about this... .. um. Anyone?

I agree. Although Geneva doesn't effect them.
 
15357 said:
I agree. Although Geneva doesn't effect them.

while you're correct that because of their designation as unlawful combatants there's different interpretations of whether the accords apply or not HOWEVER, the US has stated on a number of occasions that even though it doesnt apply US interrogators abide by them:

"Rumsfeld replied that the Geneva Convention applies to all prisoners held in Iraq, but not to those held in Guantanamo Bay, where detainees captured in the global war on terror are held.

Any al-Qaeda or Taliban personnel taken prisoner are to be treated consistent with the Geneva Convention, under a decision made by Bush, Rumsfeld added. ''

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-05-12-rumsfeld_x.htm


VirusType2 said:
- I didn't watch the video. real player is total shit -

Yes, this is one of the top ten stupid ****ing things we have done to make everyone hate us. So why hasn't anything been done? Everyone is pointing their finger, expendable soldiers have been expended. Now what? Whats the next step? I think it would be great if some ranking officers took the fall for the world to see.

On the other hand, if they would have been killed instead of taken prisoner, would anyone have cared or noticed? Iraqis are killed and Americans are killed. It's war. Nobody says, "omfg I can't believe you shot him to death, thats not very nice"

What about the torture they use? Many of our innocents have been taken hostage, beaten, starved, and even beheaded. Is this proper Geneva convention?

Shit, I'd guess that American soldiers needed to be criminally punished. Made an example out of, because thats what we should have been doing, setting an example. This whole situation is SUCH a ****ing MESS.

Starvation and beheadings is worse than being scared(dog barking in face), made uncomfortable (outside in the cold),and ridiculed(pose naked in piles for the camera), and injured while being beaten up during interrogation.

I'm the only one that has posted a view on this so far, and I don't really know hardly anything about this... .. um. Anyone?


a few things to clear up some of your misconceptions:

- the interogator in the interview said this all took place AFTER the scandel hit the media. The interrogations happened in the same prison: abu gharib. Even after assurances that the US would stop torture it continues unchecked

- the orders came from CENTCOM (US central command) ..it implicates the highest level of the bush admin: bush, rumsfeld, cheney

rumsfeld himself knew about the torture BEFORE it even happened ..they looked for legal ways to justify torture as early as Dec 2, 2002. 4 months before the invasion of iraq

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB127/


he even questioned the severity of the methods to be used:

"However, I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?"

rumsfeld wrote that comment attached to this report

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB127/02.12.02.pdf

- saying that "war is hell" ..doesnt justify barbarity or inhumane treatment. The US used as one of it's justifications of invasion humanitarian concerns because saddam was notoriously brutal to his people ...well the US is doing the exact same thing

- saying that the terrorists dont comply with the geneva accords and so this somehow excuses the coalition of doing the same is rediculous. The individuals who behead westerners/iraqis are terrorists ...they havent signed international treaties, they're not a recognized governmnet, they dont abide by international law ..I dont see how you expect them to comply with the accords if even the worlds only super power wont. In the US it is illegal to use torture; they're breaking their own laws

- if the americans need to be punished then it needs to start with bush and rumsfeld, they gave the orders
 
Its a real shame that no one in higher positions of power have been brought to justice yet on this and many other problems worldwide. A slap on the wrist because you're of a certain rank and jailtime and such because you're of a lower rank is just assinine to me. Did we learn nothing from Nuremberg???
 
it's swept under the carpet because no one wants to admit their country is capable of such unspeakable acts of inhumanity
 
while you're correct that because of their designation as unlawful combatants there's different interpretations of whether the accords apply or not HOWEVER, the US has stated on a number of occasions that even though it doesnt apply US interrogators abide by them:

"Rumsfeld replied that the Geneva Convention applies to all prisoners held in Iraq, but not to those held in Guantanamo Bay, where detainees captured in the global war on terror are held.

Any al-Qaeda or Taliban personnel taken prisoner are to be treated consistent with the Geneva Convention, under a decision made by Bush, Rumsfeld added. ''

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing..***msfeld_x.htm

Now only if the insurgents would adbide by the rules.... :)

CptStern said:
it's swept under the carpet because no one wants to admit their country is capable of such unspeakable acts of inhumanity

Yeah, the nations aren't like 12 year-olds.

"We're ****ing badass lol we torture people"
 
Whatever a murderer's personality, they're still a murderer. That's my analogy for today.
 
15357 said:
Now only if the insurgents would adbide by the rules.... :)

and what would compel them to do that? The US is the liberator here and a sovereign nation, they've signed countless treaties including the geneva accords and the declaration of universal human rights ...I doubt a good number of fighters in iraq had little more than basic education ..you cant possibly compare the two



15357 said:
Yeah, the nations aren't like 12 year-olds.

"We're ****ing badass lol we torture people"

no, I dont think citizens of the US think that way ..perhaps they think it's justified because they've been spoonfed that al quada is behind the insurgency and that the overwhelming majority of people in prison are terrorists ..but that's just not the case ..in fact the overwhelmingly majority are innocent of any crime
 
CptStern said:
no, I dont think citizens of the US think that way ..perhaps they think it's justified because they've been spoonfed that al quada is behind the insurgency and that the overwhelming majority of people in prison are terrorists ..but that's just not the case ..in fact the overwhelmingly majority are innocent of any crime
Or perhaps we're not as ignorant as you think? Hence the thirty some percent approval rating :rolleyes:
 
I dont think americans are ignorant (in the general insulting definition of the word) however approval ratings mean very little when the administration is yet to be held accountable for continuallby circumventing international/us law time and again. This interview proves that despite bush's assurances that he would clean up the prison system, it's business as usual and the torture of prisoners continues
 
CptStern said:
I dont think americans are ignorant (in the general insulting definition of the word) however approval ratings mean very little when the administration is yet to be held accountable for continuallby circumventing international/us law time and again. This interview proves that despite bush's assurances that he would clean up the prison system, it's business as usual and the torture of prisoners continues
Most americans are completely aware of whats going on and are seriously pissed and wish things would change. It's just that most people feel helpless with the republican controlled congress and that the only real option they have is through the electoral system, which unfortunately isn't very quick. Hopefully come november everything will change though
 
I dont get the impression the average american is pissed ...more like "ok let's just ride this out till there's an election" ..were bush a democrat the republicans would have publically crucified him ages ago just like they did to clinton
 
What the hell happened to the first like fifty posts of this thread?

In any case, the amount of first-hand reports of brutality that are coming out of Iraq increasingly disturbs me. It seems impossible now, if it wasn't in the past, to claim that such reports are isolated incidents rather than indicative of a more general policy/culture of nastiness within the ranks. I don't know why this surprises me.
 
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