Cons of HL2

T

TJ Ruggles

Guest
i did a few tests.

- i teamed up with a citizen armed with a rocket launcher and we were fighting a strider. the strider kept 'striding' behind a building wall, and the citizen kept shooting rockets at the wall, instead of finding an opening and shooting the strider itself.

- whenever im sniping combine with my crossbow, another combine would just take the dead combine's place and this repeats till there's a huge pile of bodies in one place. learn from others' mistakes, dammit.

- i commanded one citizen to move from point A to B. instead of simply climbing over an obstacle, he ran around a whole block just to get to B.

- in an official hl2 screenshot i saw, there was a citizen crouching on a car. i decided to command a citizen to climb up a car and shoot from there. it was impossible cuz he was too stupid. this is the screenshot im talkin about:

http://www.planethalflife.com/screenshot.asp?src=/half-life2/screenshots/01n.jpg

- i came up with a really kool idea. use the gravity gun. pick up something flamable. find a source of fire and light it. when its lit, chuck it at a combine. unfortunately, this is IMpossible because nothing burns. wow, source is sure advanced.

- HL2 is fun, exhilarating and all but....it needs ALOT OF WORK. the AI just keep blocking u and they keep following me wherever i go, even when i walked in the washroom to take a piss.

- forget about all those e3 'bullshit' videos. HL2 relies heavily on scripted scenes and hardly any UNscripted ones are to be found.
 
I think a lot more work will/should go into the AI programming for expansions and HL3. Since they don't have to write a new engine it should free up a lot of time for stuff like that which would be awesome.

But i don't want wallhacking bullshit AI like in Far Cry or MOHAA. Challenging, yes, but it's stupid and cheap and is a massive shortcut. You're too busy getting shot in the head hiding in dense bushland 1000m away to notice that in fact the AI programming is woeful.
 
I wish that gun in the pic made it to the final version... HL2 definetly lacks in the weapons category (Manipulator Aside)
 
one con:

Steam

_____________________________________________-

Plus what you (original poster) said about the unscripted sequences. Yes the AI can create some pretty interesting situations at times but this game is almost as scripted as doom 3. After beating the game, not once did I see a combine kick in a door unscriptedly.
 
True, allthough the AI did an excellent job of avoiding fire, ducking behind obstacles and such until you focused attention on something else... is it me or is the combine AI smarter than the resistance?
 
I actually found the AI to be quite good. At least they get to you and don't get stuck somewhere forever.

Also note that screenshots from unreleased games are usually just promotional screenshots to get the hype up.

Rarely do I ever get to experience anything shown from screenshots in unreleased games, when they are released.

And yes, the fact that things aren't flamable was a let down.
I tried to set a matress on fire and walk onto a zombie and hope his blood would catch fire, but it didn't.
I instead gave him a comfy death.
 
Now now Zeus... do you need another opinion lesson? (lol..)
 
i always get mixed impressions of the AI when i play. for some reason they just seem really really stupid at times and pretty smart at other times.
 
nbk said:
Now now Zeus... do you need another opinion lesson? (lol..)
Click to expand...

If by "lesson", you mean fanboys jumping down my throat for talking about how steam is ruining my HL2 experience, then no, I don't need another "lesson".
 
I think the cons all lie in the glitches, if only they can come up with some fixes quick
 
I did find some problems with the allie AI. Like when I tell them to go to a place and stay there, after I shoot a little bit, they start following me, so they come and follow me when I don't want them to and get killed..
 
HL2 one of my favorite games but cmon people we cant keep bullshitting ourselves. The AI is pretty mediocre. We've seen AI like this in far cry (hate to say it) and other games. And lets face it, valve DID say there would be AI hints and things wouldnt rely completely on scripts, but thats very obviously bull. Everything, literally EVERYTHING in the game that happens is scripted. so much as spawning a resistance and a zombie is pathetic to watch because they look like idiots fighting one another (if they even contact each other). AI doesnt climb ladders with you, they dont jump, they dont swim, etc. The only thing they do is take cover behind objects.

Another is the fire spreading. Another thing that didnt make it. Kind of dissapointing. But easily forgotten.

Also, people - you are LYING to yourself if you dont think this game needed more weapons/alien technology. There simply is NOT enough weapons to go around.

Physics - Most part - wonderful. However, there were many physics traps/uses like in the binks. Traptown was basically turned bland. The same spinning blade and car crush over and over again. The game really didnt show of the engines physics system.

Overall - too much was cut. Too much good stuff was cut. Over abundence of scripted sequences made it very non-believable. Not alot of fun with physics to show it off though it is a great physics engine. (ive never seen so many boxes in a damn city.) Also was kinda stupid how wooden fences when shot, half of it dissapears and the rest falls stupidly.
 
Valve lied in all those E3 videos, the AI simply sucked, Doom 3 zombies were smarter! (well maybe not) but Ai was pretty crappy they didn't know how to fight, got lost, got in your way kept on saying "reload gordon" I was embarresed for valve realeasing this game with such shoddy AI.
 
I wish someone at valve would tell us what the hell happened....
 
a bunch of enemies and weapons didnt make it back as well.
 
they changed the story a little and some maps didnt fit in, so they put em in the trash and kept eating their milk and cookies laughing at us
 
Meh...You wish they told and they wish you forgot.
Thats how world works it seems, opposites working against each other.
Anyhoo, as for the AI. It's not THAT bad...I mean in farcry if you werent hidden in a bush they would notice you in 2 seconds, if you were in a bush they wouldnt notice you from 2 feet. In half-life 2 sneaking was actually possible, and it felt how it should when it was possible ((There are only certain spots but i did find you can sneak up a bit on some combine, or they got shocked, thats quality detail.))
As for things cutt: Too many, the game felt so short and cutt it felt like 2 times shorter than half-life even though it took me longer to beat it. It just either had not enough repetition or too much.
 
I agree with the poster who said too much stuff was cut. It could have been so damned impressive with that extra stuff.


HEY. WHO THE HELL DECIDED TO GO WITH 9MM FOR THE PISTOL!?

45 ACP all the way, baby!
 
OMG GUYS I CANT BELIEVE THEY HAD TO CUT STUFF TO TRY AND HIT A RELEASE DATE

OMG, THOSE FOOLS, THEY SHOULD HAVE WAITED UNTIL THEY WERE READY


.............no, wait

Regardless of the fact that this is not a perfect game, it is without a doubt the single best game I have ever played.
 
We know what was cut from the game (and I don't think it was to make a release date) but we really don't know what was ADDED to the game.

That's the problem with the "it would have been longer if they hadn't cut stuff" argument (I'm speaking about levels of course - not weapons) - there is no guarantee that even if those things had remained in the game that they wouldn't have deleted content that we're playing now.

Game development, like movie making and book writing, is an iterative process. You go through many iterations until you get what you feel is a final product. If you add something at one point, you might have to cut something else because it doesn't "fit" into the context of what your final goal is.

If Valve had left some of the cut levels (say "Borealis" level for example), there's no guarantee the game would be any longer as more than likely something else would have needed to have been cut too.

Just my thoughts on this matter.
 
Oh yeah another thing was cut remember in the videos they showed that objects in the game were flammable and when a zombie caught on fire and another zombie ran into him they were both on fire? Well that was cut too :(
 
The AI is only disappointing because it's nothing we haven't seen before in other games. That being said, it's not bad AI for a game. It's actually pretty good, just not great or fantastic. The reason the AI seems so mediocre is because the graphics, physics, etc overshadow it so much.

There are only two complaints I have of hl2, and both are grossly overshadowed by the gigantic amount of things that hl2 did absolutely right.

1. the loading times were long.
2. the few sections of the game where you had to bring your squadmates through narrow-hallway parts of the levels. In those sections, your allies simply weren't affective and had a tendency to get in the way now and then.
 
are there any games with better AI than hl2? i haven't played far cry or halo 2 (two games that come to mind), but if hl2 has AI just as good as any other game, i'd hardly call that bad.
 
ShinRa said:
HL2 one of my favorite games but cmon people we cant keep bullshitting ourselves. The AI is pretty mediocre. We've seen AI like this in far cry (hate to say it) and other games. And lets face it, valve DID say there would be AI hints and things wouldnt rely completely on scripts, but thats very obviously bull. Everything, literally EVERYTHING in the game that happens is scripted. so much as spawning a resistance and a zombie is pathetic to watch because they look like idiots fighting one another (if they even contact each other). AI doesnt climb ladders with you, they dont jump, they dont swim, etc. The only thing they do is take cover behind objects.

Another is the fire spreading. Another thing that didnt make it. Kind of dissapointing. But easily forgotten.

Also, people - you are LYING to yourself if you dont think this game needed more weapons/alien technology. There simply is NOT enough weapons to go around.

Physics - Most part - wonderful. However, there were many physics traps/uses like in the binks. Traptown was basically turned bland. The same spinning blade and car crush over and over again. The game really didnt show of the engines physics system.

Overall - too much was cut. Too much good stuff was cut. Over abundence of scripted sequences made it very non-believable. Not alot of fun with physics to show it off though it is a great physics engine. (ive never seen so many boxes in a damn city.) Also was kinda stupid how wooden fences when shot, half of it dissapears and the rest falls stupidly.
Click to expand...

hahahaha this is great.

I personally love the game, and i do agree that the AI isn't that great.
You too love the game, but you're someone who loved the game even when you didn't have it. You kept arguing that it was better then any other game that was out, and it wasn't even out.
SURPRISE SURPRISE the game isn't as good as you made it out to be

this is a result of what happens when someone hypes a game up way too much for themselves.
 
I didn't hype the game up for myself. i made my judgement on how good the game would be based on what valve said. Sorry I didn't know valve was going to cut half of the game/features out of the final product.
 
Crisis King said:
Oh yeah another thing was cut remember in the videos they showed that objects in the game were flammable and when a zombie caught on fire and another zombie ran into him they were both on fire? Well that was cut too :(
Click to expand...

I don't know about zombies, but I had at least one flaming headcrab going around and lighting his pals.

As for the squad AI, my only complaint is that they have some trouble recognising and avoiding grenades.
The telling you to reload thing is useful for me because I'm always forgetting to, and I haven't really had any trouble with getting them to follow me or do as I say.
Really, they're the best ally AI I've ever encountered in a game.

ShinRa said:
I didn't hype the game up for myself. i made my judgement on how good the game would be based on what valve said. Sorry I didn't know valve was going to cut half of the game/features out of the final product.
Click to expand...

Half? That's a bit extreme. From what they announced, they cut one gun, one enemy and modified most of the level layouts from the binks. That's about it.
 
I liked the AI in Halo better for gameplay purposes (a real challenge on Legendary for sure), but Half Life 2 is fairly decent. At least they take cover and don't get stuck.

Well, Valve DID say they'd be adding content over Steam slowly. Let's hope it's good content...
 
TJ Ruggles said:
i did a few tests.

- i came up with a really kool idea. use the gravity gun. pick up something flamable. find a source of fire and light it. when its lit, chuck it at a combine. unfortunately, this is IMpossible because nothing burns. wow, source is sure advanced.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that Valve ever said that this would occur. I also don't recall seeing any other game, ever, that does this.

- forget about all those e3 'bullshit' videos. HL2 relies heavily on scripted scenes and hardly any UNscripted ones are to be found.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people have strange definitions of what "scripted" means.

HL2 has no scripting language. You cannot script events. You can have triggers, with inputs and outputs. i.e. when you get to the part of Raveholm with the fast zombies, they don't appear until you reach a certain point. Is that your definition of scripting? That's a necessity. Things have to occur at certain times and in certain places. That isn't scripting.
The striders aren't "scripted". The gunships aren't scripted (although they are constrained by paths). The closest thing to scripted sequences are the "cutscene" events which, again, are just triggers causing the dialogue.
 
You ever play the first aliens vs predator? It had aliens running around the map randomely. It was fun at first but then it got boring cuse they were just being...well random, and you never got the drama of a true attack.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
HL2 has no scripting language. You cannot script events. You can have triggers, with inputs and outputs. i.e. when you get to the part of Raveholm with the fast zombies, they don't appear until you reach a certain point. Is that your definition of scripting? That's a necessity. Things have to occur at certain times and in certain places. That isn't scripting.
The striders aren't "scripted". The gunships aren't scripted (although they are constrained by paths). The closest thing to scripted sequences are the "cutscene" events which, again, are just triggers causing the dialogue.
Click to expand...


Ok, so they just took the word scripted and changed it to triggered, because thats essentially the same thing. Because no matter what, it does the SAME thing over and over again. When valve stated we would be able to go back and do something different and the ai would react differently.
 
As CookieCuttah pointed out, triggered events are necessary. Every single game in existence uses them. There's no way you can have a linear FPS game like HL2, Doom 3, MoH, CoD etc without them. Sure, you could build a map and add a player start, throw a bunch of weapons and enemies in. That's really not the same thing, though.

People want interactivity. That comes from scripting. People want a story. That comes from scripting. People want event-led action. That comes from scripts.

Valve never stated that the game wasn't scripted. They said the AI wasn't. It isn't.
 
It does, heres a little situation i got into.

The bit with ravenholm where father Grigori throws you the shotgun and then you call the lift. Before that I knew that fast zombies where going to come up the pipes and knock down the door, so I barricaded the doors and i was feeling all smug withmyself then suddenly BANG they came through the sky lights.
 
^Ben said:
It does, heres a little situation i got into.

The bit with ravenholm where father Grigori throws you the shotgun and then you call the lift. Before that I knew that fast zombies where going to come up the pipes and knock down the door, so I barricaded the doors and i was feeling all smug withmyself then suddenly BANG they came through the sky lights.
Click to expand...

yes thats the one time everyone can recall. and wheter u barricaded the door or not it wouldnt come through the door if it was closed. the ai knows it can go through glass. amazing. :hmph:
 
Holy shit guys....did you forget this was a game ?
I think for a game the AI was alright. I've never played any other gave with better AI. Physics were awesome as well as graphics.

Sure Valve said this and Valve said that....It's marketing fellas, whataya think sells products.

I've been praising this game since it's release. Nuttin better.....nuttin.

Of course the AI is scripted "triggered"...they don't have a brain of their own.

Sure they could have made a few things catch on fire but big deal...they could have made spiderman swing through Ravenholm too.

This games rocks.
 
^Ben said:
It does, heres a little situation i got into.

The bit with ravenholm where father Grigori throws you the shotgun and then you call the lift. Before that I knew that fast zombies where going to come up the pipes and knock down the door, so I barricaded the doors and i was feeling all smug withmyself then suddenly BANG they came through the sky lights.
Click to expand...

That part ws too easy...all I did was stand at the edge of the drain pipe they climb up and BLAM...the shot gun prevents them from getting to the top. :cheers:
 
For all those complaining bout AI- Go to store, buy a gun. SHoot your neighbor, wait for cops to come. And then enjoy shooting at them while enjoying the AI of the cops, they will try to hide behind stuff,charge at you, infiltrate your house through windows/vents. And it will all be dynamic and random =D
 
LOL, it's funny to see this discussion :LOL:
For me, HL2 is the best GAME in the world.

Just like CookieCuttah said, if you want to achieve realism, it won't be a GAME, it will be a simulator. Which, for me, is not fun at all. I don't find Hostile Intent (mod) fun, because it's too real just like Red Orchestra (?) those Quake mod of WW2.

Imagine this, a combine saw Gordon Freeman in Nova Prospekt through a monitor with a bunch of Antlions, if it's not a game, I would expect the combines to runaway. As a human, I will be freaked if I saw that. "OMG!! It's the Freeman, OMG! Look at that Antlions, OMG!! I'm gonna die OMG!! Nooo, OMG!!!"

Hey, but it's all again down to preference. Some people would really like to see AI that can really behave like a human. I don't, because it will ruin the fun for me.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
I don't know about zombies, but I had at least one flaming headcrab going around and lighting his pals.

As for the squad AI, my only complaint is that they have some trouble recognising and avoiding grenades.
The telling you to reload thing is useful for me because I'm always forgetting to, and I haven't really had any trouble with getting them to follow me or do as I say.
Really, they're the best ally AI I've ever encountered in a game.
Click to expand...
Word. I was a bit mad at the grenade thing though, I can never kill combines with grenades, they're too smart so they just avoid them. But my allies don't really care for them.
 
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