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electricitate12
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Using gravity gun?
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electricitate12
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Even if they did do something it would look horrible with even today's technology, how would they react when you spin them? It would have to be half ragdoll and half resistance cause they're alive.
songwriter
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I think the Gun will be upgradeable and later on in the game, you can pick anything up.
GuNzABlaZiN
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nicrd said:
Yeah, as long as you fling something heavy at them
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electricitate12
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i dont know maybe, u r from QC? montreal!!! YEAnicrd said:
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electricitate12
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this is different, first off this has to look more realistic than Psi Ops, second psi ops covered the body with a glow and that hid a lot of problems and it still wasnt good.lans said:
lans
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electricitate12 said:
He asked me weather it possible with current technology - and I replied it is possible, considering psi-ops.As for making it look realistic - it is the developers choice and how much they are willing to spend time on to make it as realistic as possible.Once they've achieved ragdolling of a live NPC in mid-air, so making them spin around and make them animate as though they are trying to resisit isn't too hard.
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electricitate12
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EYE C! OK I UNDASTAND! It would still look like crap, same thing with hair, no matter what they do the can't make realistic hair with today's technologylans said:
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electricitate12
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they can't even put any dents in objectselectricitate12 said:
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CHiLLaXen
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electricitate12 said:
Yes they can, but they just can't do it in real-time.
*edit* well actually, they can do it in real time, but only for short hair lengths. There is a ATi demo with a bear that shows off this technology. There's some other demo's out there that shows this off too but I can't remember any.
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McFly
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also on 3dmark 03, theres a demo with this girl with individual hairs...
it kicked my 5600's ass..........
it kicked my 5600's ass..........
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Envi_81
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hey if you want to see hair being rendered in real-time, check out the Ati demos "Bear/Monkey in jungle" or Download the new Nvidia tech demo for the "under water chick..."
it is extremly possible to render Long or Short hair in any game.
the few reasons they do not include these hair shaders is pretty much design choice to help out performance or it not being a realistic available option to everyone.
just think, 30 characters on screen with fully dynamic hair, shading with light, moving with physics and all that...
u'd have to have a really good system to handle it all...
most likely in 2006, hair shaders will be common in all games...
Who knows, valve might even inlcude an upgrade to source when DX10 comes out to include hair shaders...
Yea im new to the forums... Hi!
it is extremly possible to render Long or Short hair in any game.
the few reasons they do not include these hair shaders is pretty much design choice to help out performance or it not being a realistic available option to everyone.
just think, 30 characters on screen with fully dynamic hair, shading with light, moving with physics and all that...
u'd have to have a really good system to handle it all...
most likely in 2006, hair shaders will be common in all games...
Who knows, valve might even inlcude an upgrade to source when DX10 comes out to include hair shaders...
Yea im new to the forums... Hi!
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CHiLLaXen
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Envi_81 said:
That's what its called. :imu:
Maui
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It's more a question of how closely they want to emulate reality - for example, the physics system is an approximation. It makes several assumptions about the world, both major ones (e.g., objects do not deform) and relatively minor ones (e.g. earth is flat, gravity constant, bullets are considered forces on ragdolls and not momentum-carrying objects, etc.). But they are still able to tweak this system to give a pretty good impression of reality. Systems used in scientific fields can spend an entire day or more to simulate a ceramic coffee mug filled with glass spheres spilling over onto a wooden table (for around 30 seconds of simulated time), but even these systems make sacrifices. They simply don't make as many as Havok, because they don't have the pressure of being real-time.
While hair would be a whole other level of complexity (particularly with multiple characters) it could be partially done. Often, just making a single primitive (a partial hollow sphere, for example) can do an okay job of supplying hair movement from a distance. I could see a scalable LOD system being put in, but those often have the problem of suddenly popping into something that is shaped differently, and in this case possibly behaving quite differently. It would probably be tough to do smooth transition (I'm not sure about this).
Personally, I would much rather have a dynamic physics module (where objects can be deformed and broken based on the object and force applied to it) before worrying about something like hair. Vehicular combat is much more exciting when the damage is more realistic than just smoke steaming from an engine, or pre-generated damage models.
Requisite smiley:
EDIT: Missed the actual question in the thread, oops. It shouldn't be too difficult to define a single point on the Combine as the point where the manipulator takes effect, and throwing him around is trivial with Havok already in place. A muscular resistance model is certainly possible to simulate physically, I think the hard part would be figuring out the AI behind it. Think about when you've just fallen on your back. When you stand up, try to think about everything your body does. Maybe your legs rock toward your head and then away, your torso leans forward, your arms swing forward, you catch yourself on the ground, etc. In other words, you go through a LOT of actions to get up off the ground, and there is more than one way to do it as well. That's with a single, constant point of attraction (gravity pulling down) and a single plane to work against (the floor). Now consider the complexity of a moving point of attraction, changing planes to work against, and attempting to be combat effective, all at the same time. I think that would be tough for a human to handle, not to mention an AI system.
There are undoutably algorithms I haven't considered that would streamline this process, but there is only so much simplification you can do before you come up against reality. Beyond that, you begin sacrificing authenticity in your model in order to make it perform closer to real-time, like the physics system. There is a question of just how much you can give up and still have it be believable, because humans are much more accutely aware of small details exhibited by other human-esque objects than, say, the trajectory of a car flying through the air, so the consessions made to make the resistance module real-time would be very apparent very quickly.
To sum up this (rather long) post: Valve probably didn't do it
While hair would be a whole other level of complexity (particularly with multiple characters) it could be partially done. Often, just making a single primitive (a partial hollow sphere, for example) can do an okay job of supplying hair movement from a distance. I could see a scalable LOD system being put in, but those often have the problem of suddenly popping into something that is shaped differently, and in this case possibly behaving quite differently. It would probably be tough to do smooth transition (I'm not sure about this).
Personally, I would much rather have a dynamic physics module (where objects can be deformed and broken based on the object and force applied to it) before worrying about something like hair. Vehicular combat is much more exciting when the damage is more realistic than just smoke steaming from an engine, or pre-generated damage models.
Requisite smiley:
EDIT: Missed the actual question in the thread, oops. It shouldn't be too difficult to define a single point on the Combine as the point where the manipulator takes effect, and throwing him around is trivial with Havok already in place. A muscular resistance model is certainly possible to simulate physically, I think the hard part would be figuring out the AI behind it. Think about when you've just fallen on your back. When you stand up, try to think about everything your body does. Maybe your legs rock toward your head and then away, your torso leans forward, your arms swing forward, you catch yourself on the ground, etc. In other words, you go through a LOT of actions to get up off the ground, and there is more than one way to do it as well. That's with a single, constant point of attraction (gravity pulling down) and a single plane to work against (the floor). Now consider the complexity of a moving point of attraction, changing planes to work against, and attempting to be combat effective, all at the same time. I think that would be tough for a human to handle, not to mention an AI system.
There are undoutably algorithms I haven't considered that would streamline this process, but there is only so much simplification you can do before you come up against reality. Beyond that, you begin sacrificing authenticity in your model in order to make it perform closer to real-time, like the physics system. There is a question of just how much you can give up and still have it be believable, because humans are much more accutely aware of small details exhibited by other human-esque objects than, say, the trajectory of a car flying through the air, so the consessions made to make the resistance module real-time would be very apparent very quickly.
To sum up this (rather long) post: Valve probably didn't do it
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Envi_81
Guest
yea man... For games today, I think only RPGs and 3rd person Horrors like Silent Hill should have the hair physics/shaders.
About the partial physics bit, I think they're actually very accurate in games cause they're only perfect to the extent of developers adding specific real-world forces in approximations to objects...
If they had the perfect exact measurements for all the forces in the world, implented them into the code, had an extreamly powerful processor to handle it all, I think it would come down to a decimal for the measurement between differences of Real World vs. Digital World comparrisons...
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_nalu_home.html Hair physics... look really accurate...
About the partial physics bit, I think they're actually very accurate in games cause they're only perfect to the extent of developers adding specific real-world forces in approximations to objects...
If they had the perfect exact measurements for all the forces in the world, implented them into the code, had an extreamly powerful processor to handle it all, I think it would come down to a decimal for the measurement between differences of Real World vs. Digital World comparrisons...
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_nalu_home.html Hair physics... look really accurate...
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Envi_81
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Sorry I guess I must of read your post wrong to an extent...
Kazuki_Fuse
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Thats a good question, I mean about weather or not secondary fire pushes the combine. I don't think it does, why shouldn't it though? Would it be possible to pic up human bodies after they're dead, ala Technical video presentation? If so we could very well still have human shields in the game people!!
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Envi_81
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HAHAHAHA human shields! good idea...
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TheLightElf
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LOL picking up an alive combine would own, like grrr KILL FREEMAN
"WTF PUT ME THE ARSE DOWN ARRRRRGHH"
/repeatedly smashed into a shed until brains spill
"WTF PUT ME THE ARSE DOWN ARRRRRGHH"
/repeatedly smashed into a shed until brains spill
chriso20
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loooooool cool, nice one As for the stupidly long post my Maui. I don't doubt you know what you're on about, its just i think all the alternate planes and stuff is just too complicated.
All you'd need is, if the enemy has been picked up by the manipulator, enemy fires at you if facing and isn't spinning round or anything and squirms (sp?) if he's not. Then when he gets tired he just hangs there as a ragdoll lol.
Human shield would be COOL.
Here's an idea, use the manipulator, but change it to what looks like a hook, and make a mod called the "bone collector" where you stealth it about, ambushing prey with melee(sp?) weapons only in dark, dank maps and you pull your kill back to your hideout and you get points for each body you collect, but as you're pulling you're vulnerable
Also when you get above 10points example, you can pick a certain ability (From a list) eg. climb walls, see better in dark, super speed etc... then have add on weapons like hooks so u can hang ppl from a wall (so if someone comes u climb the wall and hang your prey there so you're not seen by the enemy)
I've thought of so many cool mod ideas since HL2 and source was annonced (sp?) I've also got shitter at spelling too lol (sp?)
As for the stupidly long post my Maui. I don't doubt you know what you're on about, its just i think all the alternate planes and stuff is just too complicated.All you'd need is, if the enemy has been picked up by the manipulator, enemy fires at you if facing and isn't spinning round or anything and squirms (sp?) if he's not. Then when he gets tired he just hangs there as a ragdoll lol.
Human shield would be COOL.
Here's an idea, use the manipulator, but change it to what looks like a hook, and make a mod called the "bone collector" where you stealth it about, ambushing prey with melee(sp?) weapons only in dark, dank maps and you pull your kill back to your hideout and you get points for each body you collect, but as you're pulling you're vulnerable
Also when you get above 10points example, you can pick a certain ability (From a list) eg. climb walls, see better in dark, super speed etc... then have add on weapons like hooks so u can hang ppl from a wall (so if someone comes u climb the wall and hang your prey there so you're not seen by the enemy
)I've thought of so many cool mod ideas since HL2 and source was annonced (sp?)
I've also got shitter at spelling too lol (sp?)
ship
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I know this is totally off-topic, but, yeah, he is. And so'm I. But I'm anglophone, bwahahaha! :cheers:electricitate12 said:
Anywho, back on topic. It'd be awesome to just pick one of them up and chuck them in river. Although it won't be happening, I'd absolutely love to do it.
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