Curious George Obama T-Shirt racist or not?

[CptStern]

Marietta bar owner Mike Norman says the T-shirts he?s peddling, featuring a look-a-like of cartoon chimp Curious George peeling a banana, with ?Obama in ?08″ underneath, are not meant to offend.

Norman acknowledged the imagery?s Jim Crow roots but said he sees nothing wrong with depicting a prominent African-American as a monkey. We?re not living in the (19)40?s,? he said. ?Look at him . . . the hairline, the ears ? he looks just like Curious George.?About a dozen prostestors rallied against the shirts Tuesday afternoon, condemning them as racist and asking Norman, longtime proprietor of Mulligan?s Bar and Grill on Roswell Street, to stop selling them.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/05/14/racist-obama-t-shirts-for-sale-curious-george/

t shirt:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/7/9/9/0/2/2/i/4/0/0/o/CG.jpg

 

[MJ12]

Numba 2.

 

[Sheepo]

I dunno, the shirt seems pretty stupid. Whether it's racist is another question. Just seems kinda lolwut

 

[Polaris]

I don't think so.
Politicians will be always ridiculed and monkeys are popular choice. Here is another example.

Obama is my favourite candidate, BTW.

 

[Cavalry]

Yes but who cares?the issue gets in the way of real issues, the public vote with their emotions

 

[Raziaar]

He doesn't look nor act like a monkey. I would say the motive behind it is to be racially derogatory, but there's no way to say it's actually racist for many reasons.

 

[Que-Ever]

Check it out, I'm the only ****er who voted for option one. I'm on the top, baby.

 

[No Limit]

What's funny about this is that the creator of curious george is now suing this idiot.

 

[Absinthe]

No, and who cares. It's just a dumb shirt.

 

[Que-Ever]

Goddammit lavaisse.

 

[CyberPitz]

Whoops, clicked the wrong one. Move mine up to the number 2 slot.

 

[Laivasse]

Goddammit lavaisse.

Hawheehaw *twirls moustache*

 

[Bad^Hat]

Where's the option for people who don't see any resemblance between the politician and primate in question?

Oh wow, this must be my first post on these boards in... ever? I must be getting bored. :|

 

[MiccyNarc]

Voted 4 cause it was cute.

 

[Solaris]

Whether it's racist or not I don't know. But it certainly looks racist and if I saw someone wearing it I would assume they are racist and do what I could to inconvenience them.

 

[Absinthe]

Can it really be helped if black people look like monkeys?

 

[Raziaar]

Can it really be helped if black people look like monkeys?

The rantings of a lunatic.

 

[Absinthe]

Of course, Bush can be compared to a chimp with little controversy.

Y'all just hate whitey.

 

[Slug Advisor]

No, and who cares?

 

[Sulkdodds]

I don't get it. It doesn't look anything like Obama. So to a casual eye it looks both nonsensical and potentially offensive. Without any other subtext apparent, one can only glean a vague association of black people and/or Obama with monkeys hur hur (?????)

 

[Krynn72]

Monkeys are always being used as insults. They should revolt.

 

[Kadayi]

Can it really be helped if black people look like monkeys?

That's a world of generalisations right there. :dozey:

 

[Emporius]

Numba 2.

Hey Numba 1

 

[Absinthe]

That's a world of generalisations right there. :dozey:

I hear they throw their own feces at each other too.

 

[Rizzo]

No and who cares. Bush gets compared to a monkey all the time. Just becouse you compare a black guy to a monkey doesn't make you a racist.

 

[CptStern]

no but monkey is used as a racist term:

Monkey, Blacks, Similar appearance/genetics.

Monkeyboy, Blacks, People once believed, because of their high cranium, blacks were close cousins to primates.

Mono, Blacks, A hispanic term for blacks meaning monkey in most dialects.

Chango, Blacks, Used by Hispanics. Spanish word meaning monkey.

Ghetto Monkey, Blacks, Blacks tend to live in ghettos.

Guttermonkey, Blacks, Monkeys that live in the gutter.

Mangro-Monkey, Blacks, Monkeys live in mangroves.

http://www.rsdb.org/

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah, but surely there's enough room for coincidence?

Nothing short of this dude calling him a porch monkey is going to convince me this was with racist intentions.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah, but surely there's enough room for coincidence?

Nothing short of this dude calling him a porch monkey is going to convince me this was with racist intentions.

oh come on, what other motivation would he have? because Obama's name is George, because he's curious? why not put a photo of the pillsbury dough boy? or Count chocula? why curious george?

 

[Gray Fox]

If you admit it's funny, I'll admit it's racist.

 

[CptStern]

not really ..I watch curious george cartoon with my kids ..obama is no curious george

 

[Absinthe]

As a liberal-minded Democrat that: 1) Wholly supports Obama's candidacy, 2) Rejects racism in all forms (sans humor), I have to say I see a small resemblance. Although it's nothing to make a t-shirt about. I don't think it's racist. It's just stupid.

Is it possible he was intentionally making a racist statement? Sure. But there's no direct evidence to prove it. You're ultimately making an assumption to reach that conclusion, and it's setting a double-standard. Any white politician can be compared to a chimp, and we'll all giggle about it and mock his IQ. But when the same thing happens with an African American, it's an immediate kneejerk reaction to call him racially prejudiced. Innocent until proven guilty IMO, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not everybody from the South is socially backward, y'know.

 

[CptStern]

As a liberal-minded Democrat that: 1) Wholly supports Obama's candidacy, 2) Rejects racism in all forms (sans humor), I have to say I see a small resemblance. Although it's nothing to make a t-shirt about. I don't think it's racist. It's just stupid.

Is it possible he was intentionally making a racist statement? Sure. But there's no direct evidence to prove it. You're ultimately making an assumption to reach that conclusion, and it's setting a double-standard. Any white politician can be compared to a chimp, and we'll all giggle about it and mock his IQ. But when the same thing happens with an African American, it's an immediate kneejerk reaction to call him racially prejudiced.

not the same thing ..chimp does not have a racist connotation when it comes to whites ..the could have compared bush to a dolphin and it would have the same non racist undertones..the very fact that monkey is a derogatory word exclusivel to blacks puts a different meaning to the the tshirt entirely ..the bush as a chimp t-shirt would imply he's dumb or curious or innocent ..not so with a black person

Innocent until proven guilty IMO, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not everybody from the South is socially backward, y'know.

I really dont care what his intentions are/were he must have known he'd get some sort of negative reaction due to the comparison of a black man with a monkey

 

[Absinthe]

not the same thing ..chimp does not have a racist connotation when it comes to whites ..the could have compared bush to a dolphin and it would have the same non racist undertones..the very fact that monkey is a derogatory word exclusivel to blacks puts a different meaning to the the tshirt entirely ..the bush as a chimp t-shirt would imply he's dumb or curious or innocent ..not so with a black person

That's a connotation that anybody should be able to drop as their impression. Is it not possible that a black man can resemble a primate just the same as some white people do? Racism lies in one's intentions, and if there's no intention to invoke anything racially derogatory, I don't see the problem. People should be mature enough to discern between the two.

Remember that uproar over the Sony ad that depicted a white woman "dominating" a black one? Same deal. Everybody should just stop looking at these things purely by their skin color. That only contributes to this "us and them" mentality which makes race a divider.

 

[CptStern]

That's a connotation that anybody should be able to drop as their impression. Is it not possible that a black man can resemble a primate just the same as some white people do? Racism lies in one's intentions, and if there's no intention to invoke anything racially derogatory, I don't see the problem. People should be mature enough to discern between the two.

oh come on how long have you been out in the public? ..for the most part the public is stupid, they'll always go with the lowest common denominator rather than something that may have an ambiguous meaning

to say a white man can resemble a chimp is meaningless because there is no racist implied slur in calling a white person a monkey ..not the same thing. And you dont know there was no intention to provoke anything ..the very image along side a black person is an obvious provocation ..the conclusion it draws is inescapable. the person doesnt seem bright enough to attach dual meanings to his tshirt

Remember that uproar over the Sony ad that depicted a white woman "dominating" a black one? Same deal. Everybody should just stop looking at these things purely by their skin color. That only contributes to this "us and them" mentality which makes race a divider.

what people do and what people should do are leagues apart ..and if I remember correctly the majority of people who saw the ad could see how it could be interpreted as racist ..in fact it's designed in such a way as to provoke controversary ..had they not wanted that they would have gone with something less risque ..advertising company calculate everything when it comes to ad making, to say they didnt see the implied racism is just silly because of the very nature of advertising design

 

[Absinthe]

oh come on how long have you been out in the public? ..for the most part the public is stupid, they'll always go with the lowest common denominator rather than something that may have an ambiguous meaning

If they buy something because they think it's racist and it appeals to their views, so be it. That doesn't always mean it was the creator's intention.

to say a white man can resemble a chimp is meaningless because there is no racist implied slur in calling a white person a monkey ..not the same thing. And you dont know there was no intention to provoke anything ..the very image along side a black person is an obvious provocation ..the conclusion it draws is inescapable. the person doesnt seem bright enough to attach dual meanings to his tshirt

No, it's exactly the same thing. If somebody looks like a monkey, they look like one regardless of their skin color. That is plain objective reality. In the absence of anything glaringly obvious or explicitly stated, you are the one projecting racist intentions onto what amounts to little more than just a dumb t-shirt, and at the same time trying to spin this as if it's somehow the maker's fault. The stereotype of ape-like negros wouldn't hold its power today if political correctness didn't make such a big deal out of it and feel the need to "save the blacks" any time something that could possibly be construed as racist came along.

what people do and what people should do are leagues apart ..and if I remember correctly the majority of people who saw the ad could see how it could be interpreted as racist ..in fact it's designed in such a way as to provoke controversary ..had they not wanted that they would have gone with something less risque ..advertising company calculate everything when it comes to ad making, to say they didnt see the implied racism is just silly because of the very nature of advertising design

If people dropped the comparison's historical context and accepted it at face value, there would be no controversy, and Mr. Norman would be a regular bar owner with a box of shitty t-shirts nobody cares about.

If they're deliberately provoking controversy, I still don't fault them. It's only successful if people perceive it to be racist. If people make a big deal out of it, that only tells me the general public needs to readjust its views.

 

[Polaris]

Yeah, let's stereotype racist stereotypes.

 

[CptStern]

If they buy something because they think it's racist and it appeals to their views, so be it. That doesn't always mean it was the creator's intention.

of course not ..now what was the intention behind the tshirt? surely there's some meaning to the word obama and a picture of curious george

No, it's exactly the same thing. If somebody looks like a monkey, they look like one regardless of their skin color. That is plain objective reality.

perhaps if we lived in a vacuum or in a bubble within the confines of our bedrooms then yes ..however the racist association is there whether you choose to see it or not ..the image of a monkey next to a black presidential candidate in this particular case has an implied meaning ..it would have been no different had he put a watermelon or a chicken drumstick next to obama the implication is the same ..had it been bush, it wouldnt have the same imlied racial slur because watermelon and fried chicken isnt a stereotype particular to white people

In the absence of anything glaringly obvious or explicitly stated, you are the one projecting racist intentions onto what amounts to little more than just a dumb t-shirt,

I'm not projecting anything; the obvious consensus 9poll results) is that it is racist imagery or that the image in this context is associated with racism

and at the same time trying to spin this as if it's somehow the maker's fault.

how is it not? he'd have to be pretty stupid not to know what it's associated with ..in fact he's not all that stupid because:

Norman acknowledged the imagery?s Jim Crow roots

The stereotype of ape-like negros wouldn't hold its power today if political correctness didn't make such a big deal out of it and feel the need to "save the blacks" any time something that could possibly be construed as racist came along.

give me a break ..as if the stereotype's longevity is dependant on political correctness ..it's still in use today despite political correctness not because of it

If people dropped the comparison's historical context and accepted it at face value, there would be no controversy, and Mr. Norman would be a regular bar owner with a box of shitty t-shirts nobody cares about.

in a perfect world ....we dont live in a perfect world

If they're deliberately provoking controversy, I still don't fault them. It's only successful if people perceive it to be racist. If people make a big deal out of it, that only tells me the general public needs to readjust its views.

they dont have to perceive it to be anything as it can be legitmately associated with either pov ..it all depends on how far you're willing to put aside personal pov and look at it objectively and within context

 

[Absinthe]

of course not ..now what was the intention behind the tshirt? surely there's some meaning to the word obama and a picture of curious george

He looks like Curious George.*

perhaps if we lived in a vacuum or in a bubble within the confines of our bedrooms then yes ..however the racist association is there whether you choose to see it or not ..the image of a monkey next to a black presidential candidate in this particular case has an implied meaning

You assume there's an implied meaning. You assume it has racist intentions.

..it would have been no different had he put a watermelon or a chicken drumstick next to obama the implication is the same ..had it been bush, it wouldnt have the same imlied racial slur because watermelon and fried chicken isnt a stereotype particular to white people

Well, no shit. I don't know anybody who looks like a watermelon or fried chicken.

"Monkey" isn't an inherently racist word, or a racist animal, or a racist anything. While it can be used as a slur, there is no direct evidence here of it being employed in such a fashion. You are only making grumbles because, of all people the comparison could have been made with, it just happened to be a black person. And through some unexplained cosmic equation, this renders it racist.

I'm not projecting anything; the obvious consensus 9poll results) is that it is racist imagery or that the image in this context is associated with racism

So what? They're idiots for all I care. Hell, you said that the public was stupid any way in your previous post.

how is it not? he'd have to be pretty stupid not to know what it's associated with ..in fact he's not all that stupid because:

Oh no, he's not stupid. If he's anything like the person you're making him out to be, what with his clever manipulation of peoples' dumb PC sensibilities to buff up his exposure and sales, then he must be a genius.

And if people want to see those roots severed, they should stop making a fuss over ambiguous, trivial bullshit like this. Save the indignation for a more offensive t-shirt.

give me a break ..as if the stereotype's longevity is dependant on political correctness ..it's still in use today despite political correctness not because of it

I never said it was dependent on it. Just that political correctness here isn't benefiting anybody and is arguably more counter-productive than anything.

And as long as there are (black) people who look like monkeys, I imagine the comparisons will be around for a fair while longer. So might as well make the best of it.

in a perfect world ....we dont live in a perfect world

Oh, then I guess we should all just go home and give up, ceding ourselves to the masses' ignorance on what is wrong and right.

**** it. Just why bother?

they dont have to perceive it to be anything as it can be legitmately associated with either pov ..it all depends on how far you're willing to put aside personal pov and look at it objectively and within context

I agree that it can be viewed either way. But I'm going to take the creator's intentions as the base of my evaluation. Otherwise I'd just be getting riled up over a figment of my imagination.

EDIT: Didn't mean to say monkey.

 

[Kadayi]

A lot of black footballers get bananas thrown at them when they play in Spain by the crowd, and there's nothing well meaning about it.

 

[CptStern]

He looks like a monkey.

that's your opinion ..I dotn agree ..in fact I cant see a resemblance at all

You assume there's an implied meaning.

it has meaning, what is that meaning?

You assume it has racist intentions.

I'm not assuming anything ..the tshirt guy pretty much spelss it out:

Norman acknowledged the imagery?s Jim Crow roots

Well, no shit. I don't know anybody who looks like a watermelon or fried chicken.

you're purposefully sidestepping my point

"Monkey" isn't an inherently racist word, or a racist animal, or a racist anything. While it can be used as a slur, there is no direct evidence here of it being employed in such a fashion. You are only making grumbles because, of all people the comparison could have been made with, it just happened to be a black person

you completely contradict your own point; you yourself said it can be a racist slur ..racist against what demographic? blacks? the evidence is self explanatory: it's implied racism becaus ethere is no other discernible reason besides the blatantly obvious

So what? They're idiots for all I care.

hl2.netters are idiots? or only those that voted yes?

Hell, you said that the public was stupid any way in your previous post.

and? what does that have to do with how the majority percieve something? regardless of intelligence or lack of the consensus is that there's implied racism

Oh no, he's not stupid. If he's anything like the person you're making him out to be, what with his clever manipulation of peoples' dumb PC sensibilities to buff up his exposure and sales, then he must be a genius.

he's a restaurant owner lookign to make a poitn rather than a buck ..you're giving him far too much credit

And if people want to see those roots severed, they should stop making a fuss over ambiguous, trivial bullshit like this. Save the indignation for a more offensive t-shirt.

so ignore casual racism so that you can concentrate on the bigger race issues? seems like a cop out to me

I never said it was dependent on it. Just that political correctness here isn't benefiting anybody and is arguably more counter-productive than anything.

yes you did say it was dependent on it, you said it wouldnt be a big deal if not for the poltiical correctness police

And as long as there are (black) people who look like monkeys, I imagine the comparisons will be around for a fair while longer. So might as well make the best of it.

so ignore the words pasrt and just reserve it for people who look like monkeys ..that doesnt make any sense

Oh, then I guess we should all just go home and give up, ceding ourselves to the masses' ignorance on what is wrong and right.

**** it. Just why bother?

you're championing progress by advocating casual racism ...ignoring the issues obviously doesnt work

I agree that it can be viewed either way. But I'm going to take the creator's intentions as the base of my evaluation. Otherwise I'd just be getting riled up over a figment of my imagination.

the intentions while unspoken are pretty clear ..he admits it's jim crow past ..what e;se could it possibly mean? to push the idea that it's because Obama looks like Curious George is just being willfully ignorant