Did capturing Saddam make invading Iraq a success?

[JonTheCanuck]

I saw on cnn how so many people are convinced that because the US captured Saddam the whole campaign towards invading Iraq was a success. Now I'm glad he was caught, but really how does it make it any different? I dont see him being captured as a means of justifying an attack. People are saying how capturing Saddam suddenly makes them sure that US did the right thing. It doesn't make invading Iraq more right (I'm not saying invading it was wrong, I think it was the right thing but Bush did it for the wrong reasons. He's only concerned about oil).
The thing thats more frustrating is how much of a catch 22 invading Iraq was. The Iraqi people probably dont like the US because of how it killed the soldiers that were forced to fight because of the death squads that were shooting them if they didn't, but if US didn't go in, people would still be oppressed to a brutal dictator. Damn, politics and relations are difficult.

 

[Shinobi]

wasn't the initial search for WMD's?

 

[JonTheCanuck]

yeah but that was just an excuse made by bush. Iraq doesn't have the capabilities. No weapons have even been found. And considering the amount of time thats been available with unrestricted search locations, i find it unlikely any will be. Something like a location with WMD's wouldn't be something u could hide ...in a hole, unlike Saddam, haha.

 

[Korgoth]

No, capturing saddam didn't make the war a success, nor did it make it right and just. (obviously this is my opinion) See thats the great thing about living in America, or better yet being the leader of America. The sheep here are so easily infuenced, you could convince them that the pope was a terrorist threat and rome would be destroyed within days. Its very sad if you ask me, i hate living here.

 

[dawdler]

Even if it isnt a reason for invading Iraq, it sure is a small success, and thats whats important.

Though I still question whether it was worth it. I would have prefered inserting a sniper team and simply blow his head off, ignoring all rules about not assasinating other leaders. What will happen now? He is captured, so what? It wont make up for all the dead no matter what we do. All he can do is suffer or die. Considering the crimes, he will most likely get the easiest and smoothest way out.

 

[Revisedsoul]

its not patricotic to question the government in times of war, didnt you knwo that? they never do anything wrong even with the facts again them. was quite funny how he jumped from osama to saddam so quickly

 

[Varg|Hund]

its not patricotic to question the government in times of war, didnt you knwo that? they never do anything wrong even with the facts again them. was quite funny how he jumped from osama to saddam so quickly

I read the first line of your post, got really pissed off and prepared to flame you, and then I read the rest
Good man!
*gives Revisedsoul a cookie*

On Topic: NO, capturing Saddam does NOT make the war a sucess. Though it has probarly won Bush some more supporters and voters

 

[Korgoth]

Well obviously it was a success for Bush, in the polls. Even today still, men and women are getting killed over there, many Iraqis' are still without fresh water and electricity in some places. Its crap if you ask me, if the people of Iraq wanted Saddam killed or removed they could have done it themselves. I saw some video footage just the other day on CNN of Saddam in a crowd of hundreds if not thousands of people in the middle of the street. Some of these people were even shooting AKs' in the air while swarming around him, clearly if some one wished to assassinate Saddam, it wouldn't have been that difficult. If the people there longed so badly for change, they would have brought it about themselves.

 

[Dedalus]

what can i say, the public are for the most part a bunch of dullards and morons. capturing saddam is a small bonus. the reason they went was to find WMD's, which obviously haven't appeared. this war wil only have been a success if iraq is rebuilt properly and becomes a prosperous country to live in.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Innervision....have youe ver read the book Interesting times? Its a Discworld novel by Terry Pratchette...quite funny. Anyway, in it he mentions that on the CounterWeight Continent, they have something worse than whips...Obedience, its so drilled into the peoples minds that they must obey, that they wouldnt dare question the emperor. I think it was something similar in Iraq. Everyone was so afraid of Saddam, that they would not even think about questioning his dictatorship, because they were so afraid. After all, you remember what happened the last time they tried to rise up against the regime? Thousands upon thousands died and it merely left Saddam ina greater place of power. After that, noone could think about rising up again until they got real help. As for the problems of water shortages, well its difficult to fix those problems when you are being shot at isnt it. Remember the looting? Well, people blammed that on the Americans, yet it was in fact the Iraqi people doing it. Im not saying they are bad people, but you cant say that it was entirely Americas fault.
As for assassinating him, well if we odnt follow the rules thne who will? Perhaps the war was unjust, or maybe just un-precidented. Nothing quite like it had ever taken place, so people didnt know what to make of it and then infact turned against it.

I believe Iraw can be rebuilt, but the Iraqi people need to take pert in it as well. It will also take time...remember the saying, "Rome wasnt built in a day"? Well, Iraq cant be "refurbished" overnight.

 

[Dedalus]

some people in iraq didn't mind saddam simply because he didn't do anything bad to them. the sunni muslims directly benefitted from saddam's rule, that's the area around tikrit, and in the south. the kurds in the north didn't listen to saddam and he just let them get on with it, persecuting a few here and there. the rest of iraq suffered under saddam, but they didn't have a means of striking back. they were poorly fed, poorly clothed etc. so the people innervision saw not trying to assasinate him were the people who directly benefitted from saddam being a bastard towards everyone else.

so the people on saddam's side are like the rich and well looked after, they know now they won't be on the top of the pile anymore, they'll be treated as equal to everyone else and they don't like this idea so that's why we'll see more violence etc.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

while i whole-heartedly disagree(d) with the war, i think you all should all realize that assassination was not a valid option for dealing with saddam. can you imagine the shit that would have gone down had qusai or udai succeeded? if not them, there were hundreds of ruthless bathists around saddam, how would they have been any better? or it could have been a fundamentalist shia mulah that took over.. better? taliban? yeah.

also, saying the iraqis could have gotten rid of saddam (and coincidentally the entire bathist regime) if they wanted to is very easy to say from our suchy little democratic mc-society. try living in a tyrannical regime with dissidants disappearing day after day before you tell the iraqis how to deal with their lives. i'm just sayin' is all.

on-topic: politically it's a huge success, b/c americans are dumb. capturing him was no sort of strategic or military victory unless they can get some useful info out of him (not that i'm sure he would even have any about anything?). it may be a victory in terms of reducing violence in iraq/hated towards US military from the common man, but we'll have to wait and see about that. i don't know if you guys remeber, but a while back all the news outlets here were talking about how saddam could come back into power if he wasn't captured. now that's just retarded, so i don't think there was any victory in that sense. the pictures of him in that huge beard werre cool though.. that's probably the biggest victory imo, saddam clause.

 

[Asus]

I know of a family here that used to live over in Iraq. The only reason they were approved to leave Iraq was because he was going to be getting an University education in the USA.
They weren't able to call them because the phones over there were monitored and their family might be targeted.
Their family in Iraq stayed in doors until Saddam was captured just resently. Out of fear, they stayed inside. Even after the military entered Bagdad they still were afraid to get jobs. Afraid to align themselves with the US and be targets from others loyal to Saddam.
Most of Saddam's supporters are factions that have come into Iraq from Sieria and Iran. The real Iraqis are glad they are now free,have a chance to get a job and a fresh start with out being surpressed. Think about that...

As for "was it was worth it?"...
...How many soldiers have we lost?
How much of an impact has this made?
Our ratio of the impact that we have made compared to deaths is very low.

 

[Korgoth]

yeah good point, it is easy for me to say that, for one, because i've never had to do it.
I am not going to say that I know %100 of what the deal was. I'm not against the war for the reason of eliminating Saddam and his regime from power. Thats a good enough reason. My complaints about the war are: The way it was handled (no clear exit strategy), the way it was brought about (i think we have went through six different reasons for the war I.E. weapons of mass destruction are an eminent threat to US, Saddam has clear ties to al qaeda (untrue) to liberate the iraqi people.... i guess 2 out of three aint bad) the "unilateral" approach we took which left a bad taste in the mouths of many allies and the UN.. I could list more but i'll save it.

Farrowlsparrow: No i haven't actually read that book, sounds interesting... You know if you go back and read the discreption you gave of it one more time with america in mind instead of iraq it seems to work for us to. Only we don't see the "emperor" as the threat, but the "emperor" leads us to believe everyone else is.. so we follow him blindly.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

i can understand what u mean asus, its just bothersome how bush can send people under his command do go and do it for him. He claims victory, when infact bush himself would never go do anything like that if he himself had to fight. He gets others to die for him and claims that HE's doing the right thing.

 

[Kadayi]

It is a good thing that Saddam has been captured and his regime toppled. I have reservations about real motives behind the liberation of iraq, however at the same time I think it is all for the good at this stage.