Dumbasses fight lowlifes in Prague (Nazis versus Anarchists)

[Nemesis6]

PRAGUE (AFP) - Brandishing yellow stars and red flags, more than a 1,000 people rallied in Prague's old Jewish quarter Saturday to block a far-right march on the anniversary of a notorious Nazi-era pogrom against Jews.

More than 1,500 armed police officers sealed off the Jewish quarter, where members of the far-right Movement for Young Nationalist Democrats (MND) had planned to meet.

Earlier Saturday, Officers had also arrested a number of skinheads, some armed with batons, truncheons and home-made molotov cocktails, said CTK agency.

Prague's mayor Pavel Bem said police had managed to keep apart most of the 400 neo-Nazis and about a 1,000 anarchists counter-demonstrators from entering the city's old quarter.

Some clashes did however break out between anarchists and neo-Nazis in several streets in the central part of town, leaving at least one person injured, witnesses said.

Anarchists also clashed with police in other parts of the city, injuring several people.

"The march was unacceptable," said Bem, who joined the counter-demonstration against the neo-Nazis. He had come to keep an eye on the situation but also to express his indignation.

"We need to cultivate the national memory to avoid what happened in the past," he added.

The date chosen for the march, November 10 is the anniversary of the day in 1938 when Nazis across Germany and in parts of Austria ransacked Jewish homes, shops and synagogues and killed more than 100 Jews.

The pogrom became known as Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) because of the number of windows smashed.

The MND march, officially to protest the Czech military presence in Iraq, was banned after a series of court judgements, but the neo-Nazis nevertheless maintained their call for a demonstration.

Czech President Vaclav Klaus was among the politicians who condemned the planned MND demonstration.

And the counter-demonstrations organized by civic and religious groups marked a departure for the Czech Republic, where public protests are rare and neo-Nazi rallies have never drawn much emotion.

Some of the counter-demonstrators wore the yellow stars of David that Jews were forced to wear during the Nazi era.

"Never Again," proclaimed several signs in front of one of Prague's synagogues, near a museum dedicated to the memory of the more than 77,000 Jewish victims of the Nazi genocide from former Czechoslovakia.

"I came because I don't like these idiots with their shaved heads," said one 17-year-old teenager, who identified herself as Vera, a star sewn on her coat.

"I am neither Jewish nor anarchist, nor I don't know what, I am a normal girl and I live in a normal country."

Czech authorities had ordered tighter border controls after press reports suggested neo-Nazis from neighbouring countries might travel to Prague for the march.

Three busloads of far-right supporters from Germany were spotted at the border where Czech police dispatched an escort to check their final destination, the country's CTK news agency reported.

On Friday, leading Czech tour operators warned tourists to avoid central Prague and said organised tours would not venture into the area Saturday.

A number of curious tourists were nevertheless on hand to view the demonstrations.

I hate the Nazis and I hate the Anarchists perhaps even more for capitalizing on the suffering of others to further their own extremist agenda which has actually killed... roughly 4 or 5 times more people than Nazism. Now, if only normal people were as organized as the Anarchist lowlifes and could meet up in equal numbers, we would have an efficient middle-finger to raise to the skinheads. Problem is that unlike Anarchists, real and normal, decent people have more important things to do than engage in shouting matches and molotoving.

Still, I can't help but find it hilarious when two retarded ideologies meet and both claim to be better. Makes for good TV and hilarious debate/fights! :cheese:

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Only in ....the Czech Republic..?

 

[ericms]

From what little I've read, there were also, among the anarchists, locals who voiced themselves similarly to the anarchists. I'm not sure why you're giving distinction to any one group among the counter protesters when, from what I've picked up on, you would participate for, more or less, the same reasons. Also, brushing off an ideology as broad and diversified as anarchism with just one word, whether by praise or criticism ("retarded?"), does not mean a whole lot, or at least shouldn't.

 

[Solaris]

I hate the Nazis and I hate the Anarchists perhaps even more for capitalizing on the suffering of others to further their own extremist agenda which has actually killed... roughly 4 or 5 times more people than Nazism. Now, if only normal people were as organized as the Anarchist lowlifes and could meet up in equal numbers, we would have an efficient middle-finger to raise to the skinheads. Problem is that unlike Anarchists, real and normal, decent people have more important things to do than engage in shouting matches and molotoving.

Still, I can't help but find it hilarious when two retarded ideologies meet and both claim to be better. Makes for good TV and hilarious debate/fights! :cheese:

Your a retard.

For starters give me a source becuase I call bullshit. In britian we have groups who blockade Nazi rallies and I am proud to belong to one of these. These groups are not 'anarchist' they are a mixture of people across the political spectrum who want to stop Nazis ever doing any more evil again. I don't see why the situation would be different in Prague.

And second, the counter-demonstrators are not capitalising on the holocaust to further their own political agenda. They organized a demonstration to stop the Nazis marching through their town.

Why would you brandish these brave people as 'anarchists and thugs'. I wonder perhaps you sympathies with the Nazis and so smear those who oppose them.

And please, anarchism hasn't killed many people at all.

 

[Nemesis6]

Your a retard.

For starters give me a source becuase I call bullshit. In britian we have groups who blockade Nazi rallies and I am proud to belong to one of these. These groups are not 'anarchist' they are a mixture of people across the political spectrum who want to stop Nazis ever doing any more evil again. I don't see why the situation would be different in Prague.

First of all, I don't have a retard, second, what about it if I did? Yes, these people ARE anarchist and you have by no means the credibility the AFP has. And yes, the majority of these groups are Anarchists. "ANTIFA", "Anti-Fascistische Aktion", whomever, I'd say it's a sure bet that the lowlifes in question here are the Czech branch or off-shoot of these ****nuts.

And second, the counter-demonstrators are not capitalising on the holocaust to further their own political agenda. They organized a demonstration to stop the Nazis marching through their town.

Looks like we'll have to revisit this one: They are Anarchists/Communists/Marxists, they are hardly fit for speaking up for the Jewish community since their ideologies combined have killed more than Hitler could ever have dreamed of, and they themselves targetted the Jews. The wolf protecting the henhouse here basically.

Why would you brandish these brave people as 'anarchists and thugs'. I wonder perhaps you sympathies with the Nazis and so smear those who oppose them.

I would brandish them as "lowlifes" because that is what they are. This violent subculture centers around violence against figures of authority and the abolishment of one of the best things humanity has spent thousands upon thousands of years developing -- The principle of Governments. I've seen these shitheads in action. Perhaps, if you had seen your street literally blocked blocked by several huge bonfires, all because some squatters refused to pay for their house when it was auctioned, perhaps you'd feel the same way. And then of course there's their affinity for the throwing of bricks against police officers. It takes a special kind of asshole to coin Penn & Teller, to try to kill a fellow being by throwing molotovs and bricks at your fellow human beings solely because they are representatives of the state.

And please, anarchism hasn't killed many people at all.

I'd bet the guy in St. Petersburg would beg to differ. Well, probably not, he's dead now, you see. Anarchism has killed, is fuelled by, and supports killing - That is the vice of returning to neanderthalism; everyone for themselves. Tell you what, this might be a little difficult because some of the videos are removed, but look around for "ANTIFA" videos on youtube to get a nice picture of the average "anti-fascist"/racist/whatever.

In closing - Don't try to downplay their affiliations or past, because, although reluctantly, I know more about them than you do and I have seen their ideal world with my own eyes; It smells of teargas and burned private property.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071110/8/2ddq.html

And by the way, nice going trying to imply that I support Nazis. It really hammers the nail into the coffin that is your weak argument.

 

[Solaris]

First of all, I don't have a retard, second, what about it if I did? Yes, these people ARE anarchist and you have by no means the credibility the AFP has. And yes, the majority of these groups are Anarchists. "ANTIFA", "Anti-Fascistische Aktion", whomever, I'd say it's a sure bet that the lowlifes in question here are the Czech branch or off-shoot of these ****nuts.

'"I came because I don't like these idiots with their shaved heads," said one 17-year-old teenager, who identified herself as Vera, a star sewn on her coat."I am neither Jewish nor anarchist, nor I don't know what, I am a normal girl and I live in a normal country."'

Looks like we'll have to revisit this one: They are Anarchists/Communists/Marxists, they are hardly fit for speaking up for the Jewish community since their ideologies combined have killed more than Hitler could ever have dreamed of, and they themselves targetted the Jews. The wolf protecting the henhouse here basically.

I am insulted. I am a marxist and a communist. I have taken part in anti-Nazi leafleting.

Your a ****ing ignroant right wing bigoted asshole. You'll find you average 'anarchist' to be the first to decry Stalin, he was not a Marxist or a communist. Why the **** would these people ****ing try and blockade the march carrying signs saying (never again) if they supported the extermination of jews you ****ing asshole.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Anarchists/Communists/Marxists

Anarchists are not communists. They are completely different.
Learn2politics.

 

[Solaris]

And it's worth pointing out the Anarchists fought against the soviet regime from it's conception.

But whats the point...

 

[The Monkey]

Anarchists are not communists. They are completely different.
Learn2politics.

Actually, anarchy is the ultimate goal of communism. But I agree, it's stupid to lump them together.

 

[Solaris]

Not all communists seek that the monkey.

I do however, gradually and slowy.

 

[Polaris]

Yeah, that was stupid. Maybe I'm more informed than you but I wasn't in the Prague that day. It wasn't simple fight between nazis and anarchists from ANTIFA, in the afternoon there was huge peaceful demonstration against neo-nazism with normal concerned citizens supported by politicians and celebrities. Later lowlifes started their retarded fights against each other and against police. I hate them both but neo-nazis are much worse.

 

[ericms]

I would brandish them as "lowlifes" because that is what they are. This violent subculture centers around violence against figures of authority and the abolishment of one of the best things humanity has spent thousands upon thousands of years developing -- The principle of Governments. I've seen these shitheads in action. Perhaps, if you had seen your street literally blocked blocked by several huge bonfires, all because some squatters refused to pay for their house when it was auctioned, perhaps you'd feel the same way. And then of course there's their affinity for the throwing of bricks against police officers. It takes a special kind of asshole to coin Penn & Teller, to try to kill a fellow being by throwing molotovs and bricks at your fellow human beings solely because they are representatives of the state.

Well, certainly there are violent subcultures of anarchism, but you're taking on the term as it is oft-used by those just wanting to describe something or someone violent. What you're doing is lashing out against an ideology from such a subculture as if it subsumes it all. This is a very poor way to go about it, don't you think?

Actually, anarchy is the ultimate goal of communism. But I agree, it's stupid to lump them together.

It matters more on the definition and entitlement people have to property. From this foundation anarchism can go to two extremes, what you're implying, and also that in which property can be taken up through labor or, afterwards, contractually. The "state" comes across differently as a result of this definition, as does servitude. An interesting thing about the latter of these is that trade as it's done in the former may co/exist with the latter, but not the other way around. Both still, however, have some form of a state that comes from the right to life, and also, this is just in the case of the latter, the right to property. Any time there exists rights there exists a state as far as I'm concerned. Most anarchists (of the former and latter) accept the first right, and a group of those (the latter), which accept that, also accept the right to property. It's interesting how they subsume each other in different ways.

 

[Ennui]

I hate the Nazis and I hate the Anarchists perhaps even more for capitalizing on the suffering of others to further their own extremist agenda which has actually killed... roughly 4 or 5 times more people than Nazism.

I would love to hear your argument for this statement.

 

[ríomhaire]

Brandishing yellow stars and red flags

Communist symbols?

 

[golden_fang]

lol this encounter was amusing imho

 

[Nemesis6]

I would love to hear your argument for this statement.

And you'll get it: In the name of communism, roughly 20 million people were killed under Stalin alone, and Lenin was apparently pretty good at it, too. "Oh but they're not all communists!" - Then let's take the Marxists. Two words, or one name for that matter: Che Guevara... ALso helps to take a look at all those socialist dictatorships including the ones Che sowed in Latin-America. Socialism - Same as before except this concept has quite a few commendable principles, problem is that this term is interchangeable with "Marxism" since during that time, they were just two words for the same thing back then: Lite communist dictatorships, or as Solaris so romantically dubbed it - "Revolutionary Socialism", or wait, that's what the hip youngsters refer to Communism as now.

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, certainly there are violent subcultures of anarchism, but you're taking on the term as it is oft-used by those just wanting to describe something or someone violent. What you're doing is lashing out against an ideology from such a subculture as if it subsumes it all. This is a very poor way to go about it, don't you think?

Yeah, I tend to generalize about Anarchists because it doesn't hurt - I get to label the freaks. If the ones are aren't freaks object, they can voice their opinion instead of throwing a cinder block or molotov(always with the molotovs!) at me. I just don't see that big a problem in it: In their eyes, the state is evil and so is anyone who works for it or acknowledges it. It doesn't really help to reiterate that the majority of them are not violent, because the violent ones are the ones who speak the loudest just like the Islamists over the Muslims. It doesn't help, either, that anarchists acknowledge this and spread into two "blocs" - If I remember correctly: They have two different "blocs". Purple and Red I think it is - One demonstrates, and one destroys shit and light fires in the street. They actually it organized.

It matters more on the definition and entitlement people have to property. From this foundation anarchism can go to two extremes, what you're implying, and also that in which property can be taken up through labor or, afterwards, contractually. The "state" comes across differently as a result of this definition, as does servitude. An interesting thing about the latter of these is that trade as it's done in the former may co/exist with the latter, but not the other way around. Both still, however, have some form of a state that comes from the right to life, and also, this is just in the case of the latter, the right to property. Any time there exists rights there exists a state as far as I'm concerned. Most anarchists (of the former and latter) accept the first right, and a group of those (the latter), which accept that, also accept the right to property. It's interesting how they subsume each other in different ways.

You are clearly more knowledgeable on this ideology than me, but, at the risk of sounding like a broken record: I doubt that you have seen the most exposed part of the culture in action; the violent psychopaths who destroy things and on occasion, kill people.

And yes, I do not differentiate between them. Marxists, Communists, Socialists(remember the special rule here)... The ones I have "met" are retards - You see I "meet" them when they destroy the part of the city I live in.

 

[15357]

I hate anarchists because they're retarded. I hate nazis because they're racist, and therfore retarded.


Therfore I support putting both groups into a colloseum of sorts and have them fight each other to the death.

 

[ericms]

I doubt that you have seen the most exposed part of the culture in action; the violent psychopaths who destroy things and on occasion, kill people.

This behavior, for whatever ends, has been discouraged by most others, but the word is now used by those "violent psychopaths" as mere shock value. I'm not claiming any single intent of anarchism, just that any mindset like that is pure rebellion and those instances you're describing are in-the-moment actions withheld from anarchist ideals.

I hate anarchists because they're retarded.

This word seems to be common with regard to whatever you and Nemesis6 see as "anarchism." Explain.

 

[Ennui]

And you'll get it: In the name of communism, roughly 20 million people were killed under Stalin alone, and Lenin was apparently pretty good at it, too. "Oh but they're not all communists!" - Then let's take the Marxists. Two words, or one name for that matter: Che Guevara... ALso helps to take a look at all those socialist dictatorships including the ones Che sowed in Latin-America. Socialism - Same as before except this concept has quite a few commendable principles, problem is that this term is interchangeable with "Marxism" since during that time, they were just two words for the same thing back then: Lite communist dictatorships, or as Solaris so romantically dubbed it - "Revolutionary Socialism", or wait, that's what the hip youngsters refer to Communism as now.

Anarchism is not communism. There is anarcho-communism, and it is true that Marx's ideal communist state/society eventually is dissolved into pure anarchism, but that was never in practice nor particularly idolized by any of the people you mention (although the not-having-been-practiced part is key here).

So again... what?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Anarcho-socialism confuses me, how can there be state control of the economy with no state, it will just end up as anarcho-capitalism.

 

[15357]

This word seems to be common with regard to whatever you and Nemesis6 see as "anarchism." Explain.

Because, who in the world would want to have a state of anarchy with no safety or security?


Also, I view the act of killing police with firebombs retarded.

 

[The Monkey]

Anarcho-socialism confuses me, how can there be state control of the economy with no state, it will just end up as anarcho-capitalism.

Anarchy in communism is the ultimate goal, an utopia. Once the workers have been freed they will live as equals, each taking care of eachother. There's no need for a state.

 

[ericms]

Because, who in the world would want to have a state of anarchy with no safety or security?

To answer the question: Not many, including most anarchists. The right to "safety or security" in anarchism would be as established as it is now. As I mentioned above, the right to life is a social norm, of which anarchists actually see as being intruded upon.

Also, I view the act of killing police with firebombs retarded.

As do I?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

The thing is, you can't generalise anarchists. I have never heard of anyone bieng killed by anarchists - whereas Nazis are evil. They deserve to be thrown into a ditch with their legs broken and left to die.
I think anarchism is retarded. But I don't hate it, because there is no reason too.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Anarchy in communism is the ultimate goal, an utopia. Once the workers have been freed they will live as equals, each taking care of eachother. There's no need for a state.

Trade leads to markets, which leads to capitalism, trade must therefore be actively suppressed to prevent capitalism. A state would be required to prevent trade.

 

[Solaris]

Trade leads to markets, which leads to capitalism, trade must therefore be actively suppressed to prevent capitalism. A state would be required to prevent trade.

You really think all these big anarchists intellectuals who write so many essays and such could have ignored such an obvious flaw. Now I don't really understand much about how anarchism would work, but I can imagine alot of ways in which the above situation would not happen. I would understand an idea before I make myself look a fool by showing my ignorance like that.

 

[repiV]

You really think all these big anarchists intellectuals who write so many essays and such could have ignored such an obvious flaw. Now I don't really understand much about how anarchism would work, but I can imagine alot of ways in which the above situation would not happen. I would understand an idea before I make myself look a fool by showing my ignorance like that.

Indeed. While you're at it, I'll give you the lightbulb from my hallway for your personal air conditioning unit.

Oops. ALERT TEH COMMIEPOLIZEI.

 

[Mr Stabby]

You really think all these big anarchists intellectuals who write so many essays and such could have ignored such an obvious flaw. Now I don't really understand much about how anarchism would work, but I can imagine alot of ways in which the above situation would not happen. I would understand an idea before I make myself look a fool by showing my ignorance like that.

Show me an anarchist intellectual with an understanding of economics.

 

[Solaris]

Show me an anarchist intellectual with an understanding of economics.

Lenin.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Are you serious?

 

[ericms]

Show me an anarchist intellectual with an understanding of economics.

David Friedman, Murray Rothbard, Anthony de Jasay, Spencer Heath, Lew Rockwell... Along with most [other] thinkers of the Austrian School. On the other side, I've never been able to see past anything but a conjecture of left-anarchist economics. That doesn't mean that it's a bunch of gibberish, just that I might not have tried hard enough to understand it.

 

[kirovman]

Milton Keynes. Greatest economist in history imho.

 

[Solaris]

Are you serious?

Yes, his ultimate goal was the abolishment of the state.

 

[Mr Stabby]

David Friedman, Murray Rothbard, Anthony de Jasay, Spencer Heath, Lew Rockwell... Along with most [other] thinkers of the Austrian School. On the other side, I've never been able to see past anything but a conjecture of left-anarchist economics. That doesn't mean that it's a bunch of gibberish, just that I might not have tried hard enough to understand it.

I should have specified anarcho-socialists that understand economics. Anarcho-capitalism makes sense, though I don't think it's a good idea. Austrian school is one of the most pro free market groups of economic theorists.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Yes, his ultimate goal was the abolishment of the state.

Not that he was an anarchist, that he understood economics, because Russian history indicates he didn't.

 

[15357]

To answer the question: Not many, including most anarchists. The right to "safety or security" in anarchism would be as established as it is now. As I mentioned above, the right to life is a social norm, of which anarchists actually see as being intruded upon.

But what are these people outside yelling for "Revolution and Rights!" and burning police vehicles just yesterday?

As do I?

Yeah, well, good. You're a sane person.


Unfortunately not many are sane.

 

[Solaris]

Not that he was an anarchist, that he understood economics, because Russian history indicates he didn't.

He took over a country in absolute ruin. What economic policy of his do you think demonstrates his complete lack of economic understanding.

I presume, with your brilliance in economics you will have read some Karl Marx to be knowledgeable to judge.

 

[Mr Stabby]

He took over a country in absolute ruin. What economic policy of his do you think demonstrates his complete lack of economic understanding.

War communism for a start. His attempt to go to capitalism to solve the mess he made (NEP) was handled very poorly.

I presume, with your brilliance in economics you will have read some Karl Marx to be knowledgeable to judge.

Yes. Karl Marx wasn't really a Marxian economist, he gave the general outline to the concept, but he never really addressed the economic side.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Nemesis in 'distorting the news then posting a load of crap when called out' shocker.

I think it's fair to say that Stalinism is rather distinct from anarchism. Maybe it should also be added anarchists or anarchism have never killed anywhere near the amount of people that the nazist ideology has. Maybe.

Milton Keynes. Greatest economist in history imho.

I've always agreed with his policies, certainly expressed in theory, but didn't their implementation belatedly lead to the boom/bust problems of the late 60s and 70s? (of course, those problems could have been due to something completely different in the non-labatory conditions of modern advanced capitalism in a period that I haven't, economically, studied in enough detail) That said his general doctrine of 'capitalism is great, in moderation' is one I agree with.