Dystopia being pay for play?

[Gusdor]

Just found out about these plans by the dev team. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Is it lame?
Is it too ambitious?
Do you think it will happen?

I kinda want to try it for free tbh!

 

[WhiteZero]

Erm... link to this?
I highly doubt that their going to make it pay to play.

 

[Darkling]

i will state that this is not offical and is only a possiblity to those who are worried. the truth is that dystopia will ONLY be pay to play if valve decides to pick it up and sell it retail. the dystopia team has said that if this does happen the game will not cost $50 but more close to $20

 

[Pesmerga]

/me puts on his tin foil hat

Valve won't pick this game up as retail, and if they do, it will be both available on shelves and as a free download. They did it with CS/DoD/TFC

 

[WhiteZero]

I wouldent mind paying about $20 for it.
But theres alot of players out there that dont have a credit card to pay for it anyway, so it's an overall bad idea.

I think they can make enough money if they just put up a donations link.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Why is this even being considered TBH?

A game can have all the good press and being featured in contests and such, but it's the fans who decide if it's good or not.

I'm not saying Dystopia is a bad game, but I'm saying it hasn't with-held the test of time like Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, Team Fortess did before they were bought.

I would be upset if they made a move like that...

 

[Teddy]

To quote our FAQ:

Any plans past the demo release are at this stage still under negotiation / discussion with Valve. A lot rides on how well the demo does. If Dystopia's demo is a huge hit (which we obviously hope it will be), with help from Valve we will investigate the possibility of turning Dystopia into a stand alone game.

Please understand that we can't go into depth regarding these possibilities. Not only because licensing options are covered by a strict Non-Disclosure Agreement, but any such options are completely hypothetical at this stage.

I can honestly state however; we have no intention of charging for Dystopia unless it's a stand alone product. If so, it still wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as a normal retail game.

Our work on Dystopia has never been driven by the desire to make money. The entire team is donating their time, skills and effort purely because we all want to make a kick arse game.

 

[Darkling]

To quote our FAQ:


Quote:
Any plans past the demo release are at this stage still under negotiation / discussion with Valve. A lot rides on how well the demo does. If Dystopia's demo is a huge hit (which we obviously hope it will be), with help from Valve we will investigate the possibility of turning Dystopia into a stand alone game.

Please understand that we can't go into depth regarding these possibilities. Not only because licensing options are covered by a strict Non-Disclosure Agreement, but any such options are completely hypothetical at this stage.

I can honestly state however; we have no intention of charging for Dystopia unless it's a stand alone product. If so, it still wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as a normal retail game.

Our work on Dystopia has never been driven by the desire to make money. The entire team is donating their time, skills and effort purely because we all want to make a kick arse game.

lol ya their it is i was to lazy to find it so i put it in my own words

 

[WhiteZero]

I'm not saying Dystopia is a bad game, but I'm saying it hasn't with-held the test of time like Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, Team Fortess did before they were bought.

Not exactly a fair comparison, since it hasnt even been released yet.

Anyway, like I said, I have no problem paying $15 - $20 for Dys.

 

[ZedTrip]

If Dystopia ends up the game I'm hoping it is, I'll fork out $20 if it help keeps support for it going. I have paid full price for plenty of crap commercial games that I wish I didn't, and theres alot of mods out there worth paying for over commercial games.

 

[TwwIX]

I might aswell go back to playing Planetside then.

 

[Gusdor]

Thx for the feedback, its worth saying that i would probably fork out $20 of your shoddy currency (only £10 to me ) providing that there are plenty of players

 

[Inflame007]

The thing I dont like in this idea is the fact that they are planning retail while the game wasnt even released....

 

[Gusdor]

what makes it worse is that the only reason they are so far ahead is becasue they used the highly illegal leak. Way to gain Valve's favour :hmph:

 

[Pesmerga]

I have no idea why they would want it to make it a stand alone product. First off, we haven't even played the damn thing yet. It might turn out to be one of the worst games ever (probably not, but hey, stranger things have happened). If Valve is that confident that the game will be a huge success, then they'd be better off leaving the game as a free download.

The reward of being "cool" with Valve is enough, I should think, although I trust that the developers aren't in it for the money, as they said. If they are, well, they're in it for the wrong reasons...

 

[Chris D]

Valve quite clearly don't have a problem with that...

I have no idea why they would want it to make it a stand alone product. First off, we haven't even played the damn thing yet. It might turn out to be one of the worst games ever (probably not, but hey, stranger things have happened). If Valve is that confident that the game will be a huge success, then they'd be better off leaving the game as a free download.

The reward of being "cool" with Valve is enough, I should think, although I trust that the developers aren't in it for the money, as they said. If they are, well, they're in it for the wrong reasons...

Pesmerga:

If Dystopia's demo is a huge hit

What they're trying to say is, if Dystopia is as much of a hit as CS or DOD was then it'd make it to retail.

 

[Pesmerga]

Which would only mean it was altneratively available through shelves, as well as a free download, I'm assuming?

 

[Cole]

Which would only mean it was altneratively available through shelves, as well as a free download, I'm assuming?

Probably the same method as Cs.
Available for free dl for those who have HL2, through store shelves for those who don't.

 

[Teddy]

what makes it worse is that the only reason they are so far ahead is becasue they used the highly illegal leak. Way to gain Valve's favour :hmph:

That's not ture at all. Before the HL2 SDK was released we were prototyping on HL1. And the reason we are "so far ahead" is because I quit my job 9 months ago and have been working on dystopia full time since then, and the whole team have put in alot of hard work to try to make a "commercial standard" game that we hope people will enjoy.

You ought to stop making up rumours and do something more constructive ;P

 

[sinkoman]

/me puts on his tin foil hat

Valve won't pick this game up as retail, and if they do, it will be both available on shelves and as a free download. They did it with CS/DoD/TFC

I hope they do that, and make the Dystopia stand allone well... Stand alone.

Then us guys who payed good money for HL2 will get the game for free.

/me laughs at all the fools who still want a standalone CS:S

 

[Gusdor]

That's not ture at all. Before the HL2 SDK was released we were prototyping on HL1. And the reason we are "so far ahead" is because I quit my job 9 months ago and have been working on dystopia full time since then, and the whole team have put in alot of hard work to try to make a "commercial standard" game that we hope people will enjoy.

You ought to stop making up rumours and do something more constructive ;P

I love rumours, they make me all tingly Thx for clearning that up, and apologies....hacker

 

[CookieCuttah]

I thought the whole appeal of buying this game was getting free mods, now its just buying games based on the engine, with a discount. Hmmmm

 

[Gusdor]

Source isnt even a good engine (from a developers standpoint, its murder compared to doom3, yey, RAW ASEs as static props FTW!), sorry to burst THAT bubble.

 

[KoreBolteR]

oh jesus christ...

 

[Cole]

Source isnt even a good engine (from a developers standpoint, its murder compared to doom3, yey, RAW ASEs as static props FTW!), sorry to burst THAT bubble.

Thats just why about the same amount of Developers have licensed the Doom 3 engine as the Source Engine. Source and Doom 3 engines were made for 2 totally diffrent things in mind.

ALL the Doom 3 engine is good at is shadows. All Source is good at is, physics and facial animations. Now if a developer wants to create a game that utilizes physics to the highest degree......what engine are they gonna use?
Source.
Im Shadows\Lighting yes the Doom 3 engine beats source. BUT ONLY IN SHADOWS\LIGHTING. Once you keep upgrading Source to make it support next gen shadowing and lighting it will simply surpass the doom 3 engine. And trust me it obviously will, no one spends 4 years on an engine then scraps it.

 

[WhiteZero]

Source isnt even a good engine (from a developers standpoint, its murder compared to doom3, yey, RAW ASEs as static props FTW!), sorry to burst THAT bubble.

Thats why there is literally 100x more MODs being made for HL2 than Doom3.
And about 10 Doom 3 MODs have converted over to HL2 because they didnt like developing for Doom3.

 

[Gusdor]

The problem with Doom3 is that Doom 2 didnt have the mod support that HL1 did Or at least that is how i understnad it. Doom 3 is an awesome engine

 

[WhiteZero]

The problem with Doom3 is that Doom 2 didnt have the mod support that HL1 did Or at least that is how i understnad it. Doom 3 is an awesome engine

Ummm... Doom II was also released 11 years ago. So even if there was a huge "MOD" team for it, it wouldent matter this far in the future anyway.

Also, back in 1994, "MODing" wasnt nearly as big as it is today. Back then all we had were custom maps (which Doom II actually had an incredibly large community for) and some very basic gameplay mods; such as sound and graphic changes.

Anyway, I still stand by the sheer number of people who have embraced Source and the number of people who have switched to it from other engines.

I'm sure the Doom 3 Engine isn't that bad to work with, but VALVe has made the Source SDK easy to pick up for any skill level of MODer to start messing around with it and learn. There are several wiki's that have moutians of information for MODers using Source as well.

Personaly I very much agree that the only thing that the Doom 3 engine has over Source is Dynamic Shadows. Meanwhile, Source has very realisitc face posing features. HDR, and Bloom Lighting effects. HL2 itself has nearly photo-realistic character model textures and geometry. Meanwhile Doom 3's models have a very blocky look to them. I'm sorry but when I look at a real person, I don't see sharp seems all over their body. But this could just be how they've modeled their character, however I have yet to see any comparable to Source's character models.

Also, most every other engine's games feel more... bulky than HL1 and HL2. When I run around in most games I feel like I have 200lbs on my back. Meanwhile in HL games it somehow feels more natural - smoother if you will.

So, it dosent effect very much if the engine's predecessor was very successful; if MOD teams hear that anothe engine is better to use, they'll go for it.

On the flip side, I think Doom 3 would be better for 1 kind of MOD over Source... and that is Horror; once again, mainly because of the shadows.

 

[Gusdor]

Negatory...

I agree that doom3 feels bulky and clumsey....unless you are tripping over physics objects

Source is crap to work with, its NOT accessible. Valvce proved that when they didnt release a 3ds max exporter and only release .NET SDK.

If you mod with Source, you will know what im talking about whne i flame it

 

[WhiteZero]

Negatory...

I agree that doom3 feels bulky and clumsey....unless you are tripping over physics objects

Source is crap to work with, its NOT accessible. Valvce proved that when they didnt release a 3ds max exporter and only release .NET SDK.

If you mod with Source, you will know what im talking about whne i flame it

Sooo... you just hate it cuz it dosent have 3DSM support and it uses .NET? I see...

Anyway, I did expect much out of someone with "Hidden > Piss of Attack" in their sig.
-.-

Sorry, but I have the numbers on my side: Over 400 MODs being developed which = atleased 1200 Team Members that are working with Source. If it sucked so much, I think I would see more than 40 Doom 3 MODs.
Just because you have problems working with Source, dosent mean it's crap. It's called "opinion" and your trying to pass it off as "fact".

And yes, I've talked first hand with many people that MOD with Source and they love it.

Common sense wins again.
So sorry.
gg

I agree that doom3 feels bulky and clumsey....unless you are tripping over physics objects

I assume you mean when you trip over stuff.

Anyway, back to Dystopia talk (On Topic).

 

[Gusdor]

Sigh, the numbers are because of the franchises recent mod community. Halflife is where it all started and therefore is bigger. Doom hasnt had a game in as you said, seven years before doom3 and is therefore smaller. It is however nicer to work with.

As for the ppl who love source. They havnt used Unreal or Doom3 before. The inheritance in the Source SDK code for example, is unbelievable. Take out rocket launcher code and Combine doesnt work Oo? Nice Valve.

I only use it over Doom3 becasue imo doom3 is lighting dependant, thats how it was designed imo (and of course, the larger and more accepting community)

Plz dont spam me with 'facts' without experience.

Incidently, my sig is non-related and therefore, a judgement concerning the Source should not be formed based upon it.

"Hidden > Piss of Attack"

QFT

 

[Jeremy]

I find it interesting that Dystopia is already considering selling their mod that is not yet out. I've always considered it proper and appropriate to deliver something free to the community and only if approached afterwards consider making money for it.

Dystopia must think they have something great already if they are already negotiating with Valve about selling. I surely hope they do.

 

[WhiteZero]

As for the ppl who love source. They havnt used Unreal or Doom3 before.

Except for Alien Swarm and The Haunted.
-.-

Also, Eternal Silence made the switch from BF1942 to Source.
And probably a few others I haven't heard about.

So, who exactly have switched from Source to anything else? Ya know, since it sucks so much.


Also, the general Series of Doom has had far more spotlight than Half-Life. Granted that spotlight wasnt based around MODing, but everyone who played FPS' knows Doom. Hell, Doom 3 had commercials in movie theatres. Word got around of it and more people should be using it, if it were the superior engine.

Plz dont spam me with 'facts' without experience.

Erm... I wasnt? I was simply stating the fact that your trying to pass your opinion of Source off as fact.

The inheritance in the Source SDK code for example, is unbelievable. Take out rocket launcher code and Combine doesnt work Oo? Nice Valve.

That seems like a coding error on VALVe's fault for HL2 and has nothing to do with the engine. VALVe apparently coded Combine to have a dependancy on Rocket Launcher code. How is that an engine problem? Oh wait... it's not, it's some coder at VALVe's fault. Which dosent make a damn difference for a Total Conversion MOD in the least.

 

[Gusdor]

so, if you are making a TC, you have to strip out classes. What if you want to get rid of the combine but keep the rocket launcher as a base for a new weapon? This is SDK code. The SDK is the only way that 3rd parties will be interfacing with the engine, so this is infact an engine issue from the modders pov.

Eternal Silence switched from BF1492 because of the engines dynamic scaling feature and massive texture limits. I used to animate for them, so i know

However, just becasue a feature is in the engine doesnt mean it is implemented well. Making moddable engines isnt straight forward and its a lot easier to tailor it directly to your needs. There are editability vs security issues to consider (things that Valve did not...). An engines modability is defined by how easy it is to access powerful features. Use Source, tell me its easy

As i said before, no one will leave the engine as it has a lot of exposure, which is what serious developers want in order to break into the industry.

Please dont have a fanboy hissy fit over this until you have used the SDK

 

[Cole]

Ok now this is becoming opinons.
Gusdor's opinon is that Source is hard to mod for.
Whitezone says it's the other way around.
Now that we established that there opinons
Get on topic.

 

[Gusdor]

kk

Dystopia releasing their demo is how they hope to get established so that valve picks them up.

I still think its wishful thinking

 

[TheSomeone]

Dystopia releasing their demo is how they hope to get established so that valve picks them up.

I still think its wishful thinking

I don't think you understand, Valve has already picked them up.

 

[TheSomeone]

I've always considered it proper and appropriate to deliver something free to the community and only if approached afterwards consider making money for it.

Valve has already played numerous version of their game, and the dystopia team are releasing a free demo. If the full game comes out, it will be stand-alone.

Dystopia must think they have something great already if they are already negotiating with Valve about selling. I surely hope they do.

It's not only that they are, I'm sure INS is going to provide content up to par with dystopia, but they came up with a very original mode of play and are 90% done with the game already. Making a mod takes a lot of hard work in any case, but completing such a huge mod at that speed? Have you seen the quality and number of their player models?

The dystopia team is constituted of people who already or are close to doing this as a proffesion.

Note also that they stopped calling dystopia a mod. It is now officialy "a game for the source engine."

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Making a mod takes a lot of hard work in any case, but completing such a huge mod at that speed? Have you seen the quality and number of their player models?

I know the answer to that one, and anyone else with a brain could figure out as well, I'm not going to say what it is, because it just might ruin their rep.

 

[Betelgeuze]

Im not intrested in it anymore if its not a mod and if they are going to sell it. I dont care how mutch they ask for it im not going to play it. If I realy want a game instead of a mod ill buy a good one. It looks great for a mod, and knowing its a mod makes it special but its not so good for a pro game and you loose the "mod feeling". I think HL2 is better then any mod so far but I have more fun playing a mod because I know the mod devs did it for the gamers and not for money!
If you play a mod (ex BG2) and it has a lot of bugs most people dont care about them, people talk about the good stuff instead of the bugs. Its different if you are talking about a game.