Engineer AND Spy update?

[Shoes_Buttback03]

Gentlemen and get along little doggies are the titles of the new blog posts for TF2 blog. Now in all probability this is just Valve having fun messing with our heads. But lets explore the other less likely but still neat to think about possibility of us getting the Spy update and the engineer update in the same pack.

My thought is. Spy hates Engi, Engi hates Spy. Now updating one before the other will almost certainly ruin the balance between there relationship in such an awful way that waiting another 3 months for the others update is out of the question. So release them at the same time. This allows Valve to immediately address any imbalances with out doing anything so harsh as two take away a new unlockable until the next update is release re-balancing the two.

Well there's my 2 cents anyone to give there though?

BTW when I say we I really mean you PC guys. Hopefully us 360's will only have to wait about a month or two. Seriously if we have to wait another year to get the next updates I'm going to s*** bricks!

 

[Kamikazie]

No link to the blog for us old, lazy folk?

 

[kineaesth]

The upgrades won't unbalance the classes, but they will make more people play the classes. It's possible, but that means it'll take a looong time.

 

[huntingbear]

wow....that makes total sense actually....although then why didn't they do the heavy and medic updates at the same time? Too early possibly ? just didn't think of it? this does seem plausible

 

[CLIKKY]

why dont many people think it would be a demoman pack like i do for a little while they where focused on the demoman and in recent blog updates they say the a gearing or rapping up the update http://www.teamfortress.com/

 

[Sheepo]

I've heard this theory a thousand times. I doubt it will happen.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

wow....that makes total sense actually....although then why didn't they do the heavy and medic updates at the same time? Too early possibly ? just didn't think of it? this does seem plausible

Because the Medic and Heavy arn't mortal enemies. And really don't have to be balenced with each other.

 

[Operational]

When an update is released heaps of people switch to that class - (IIRC Valve said that during the Medic update total Medic players peaked at 60% of all players).

For the updates that have been done (Medic, Pyro, Heavy) this was fine and didn't break the game (providing both teams had simular class stacks). I don't think mass Scout, Soldier and Demo (well maybe) will be a problem however I think mass Spy, Eng and Sniper would cause stalemates and general unfunness. So yeah I expect to see dual updates in the future maybe one or more of:

Spy/Eng
Spy/Sniper
Soldier/Spy
Soldier/Eng
Soldier/Sniper
Demo/Spy
Demo/Eng
Demo/Sniper

 

[Absinthe]

Spy/Sniper, because if most people are going to go sniper, it provides an excellent opportunity for spies to back**** them. Everybody gets their unlocks, everybody's happy.

With the Engineer, I imagine a dual update with the Demoman. They're the best class for taking out sentries and the best candidate for breaking potential stalemates. And maybe people will finally start using them ****ing properly and most of the idiots in this game learn to appreciate the class' destructive potential. That means HEALING THE DEMOMAN instead of trying to front-rush two ****ing sentries with a Pyro over and over again.

 

[-Psy-]

Every player choosing Demoman on Dustbowl Stage 3...

Urgh.

 

[Sheepo]

The problem with dual release is that things aren't really even. Spys are meant to prey upon engineers, but engineers are weak to spys. So if you release them at the same time, spys kill all the engis, vast majority'll go spy anyway. Same with the Demo. The demo doesn't counter the engineer, he simply beats him.

 

[Druckles]

You gave me the biggest metaphorical hard-on and the biggest let down ever at the same time.

When I read the thread title I immediately went on to the TF2 blog.

 

[Pesmerga]

Can we please realize that update weapons aren't UPGRADES merely ALTERNATIVES.

Classes do not gain significant advantages when their class update is released. The only class that actually got buffed by new weapons was the Medic, whose Blutslauger and Ubersaw are terrifically more powerful than their originals.

 

[Sheepo]

Classes do not gain significant advantages when their class update is released. The only class that actually got buffed by new weapons was the Medic, whose Blutslauger and Ubersaw are terrifically more powerful than their originals.

That's arguable.

Don't forget KGB. Though it isn't as big of an upgrade as the ubersaw, it certainly is better than fists.

 

[Druckles]

That's arguable.

Don't forget KGB. Though it isn't as big of an upgrade as the ubersaw, it certainly is better than fists.

Yes it is. You're often not alive long enough to wield the ubersaw for four hits unless you're very careful. I could argue that if I'd used the bonesaw I'd have made more kills with it than using the ubersaw.

They're all arguable, and I know people who argue from either way.

 

[Pesmerga]

We're talking about people who are actually good at the game, Druckles. Of course Medics as terrible as you would find the Bonesaw more effective, due to your crappy skills.

 

[Sheepo]

lol I agreed about the Ubersaw. The blutslauger was the one I was arguing against. When it comes to the ubersaw, the pro outwieghs the con. By a lot.

 

[Druckles]

We're talking about people who are actually good at the game, Druckles. Of course Medics as terrible as you would find the Bonesaw more effective, due to your crappy skills.

Your trolling mind tricks don't work on me.

 

[Absinthe]

The only real drawback to the Ubersaw is medics get ballsy and start trying to melee in situations where they'll get killed. That's stupid player mentality and not a problem inherent in the weapon itself.

Used correctly, it's a clear upgrade. I find the Axetinguisher to be one as well.

 

[ríomhaire]

Yes it is. You're often not alive long enough to wield the ubersaw for four hits

Wrong mentality completely. The Ubersaw is to be used in conjunction with the medigun to build up your Uber. If the right opertunity arises you use the Ubersaw the same way as you would the Bonesaw. If you do hit someone with it you get a bonus 1/4 Uber and then switch back to the Medigun to get the rest of the Uber up. A Medic who tries to get lots of kills/charge up just with the Ubersaw is a dumbass, unless he knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[Sheepo]

The only real drawback to the Ubersaw is medics get ballsy and start trying to melee in situations where they'll get killed. That's stupid player mentality and not a problem inherent in the weapon itself.

Used correctly, it's a clear upgrade. I find the Axetinguisher to be one as well.

What? The axetinguisher's the most balanced melee alternative of them all (in theory).

 

[FISHY CRACKERS]

I don't really like the Spy hates Engie and vice versa thing, i think it's more of:

Pyro repeatedly kills spy.
Spy repeatedly pisses off Engie but usually only successfully saps his machines.
Engie runs like hell from Pyro.

Just because the Spy has a device specifically meant for the engineer's machines, it doesn't mean that many Spy players hate Engineers, it's just that sometimes it semes like Spy is the only option. Engineer's i think could easily hate the spy for obvious reasons.

 

[Druckles]

Wrong mentality completely. The Ubersaw is to be used in conjunction with the medigun to build up your Uber. If the right opertunity arises you use the Ubersaw the same way as you would the Bonesaw. If you do hit someone with it you get a bonus 1/4 Uber and then switch back to the Medigun to get the rest of the Uber up. A Medic who tries to get lots of kills/charge up just with the Ubersaw is a dumbass, unless he knows exactly what he's doing.

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying.

Let's say an opportunity arises that you might hit someone with a saw. With the ubersaw you get the extra uber, but you're much less likely to get the kill; everyone else will have taken their shots and you might get an assist.

I'll conceed that it's an upgrade, but I think people underestimate the bonesaw and axe.

 

[FISHY CRACKERS]

I can understand why people would use the Axetinguisher over the regular Axe, i mean if you're a Pyro, chances are your enemy will be on fire, so you might as well just use something to get you some extra damage with that.

 

[-Psy-]

Blutsauger

• +3 health on every hit
• Health Regeneration

Needlegun

• Critical Hits
• Health Regeneration

As a Medic it is important to stay alive so why would any Medic choose the Needlegun over the Blutsauger when you get +3 health on every hit AND the health regeneration guaranteed compared to the Needlegun's base crit rate of 5%?

 

[Druckles]

Crits are incredibly annoying. Useful, though.

Most people prefer the blutsauger because the luck factor is minimized. Same with most unlockables involving crits.

 

[Absinthe]

What? The axetinguisher's the most balanced melee alternative of them all (in theory).

It's really not hard to flame somebody and then switch to it in a second, especially if you're ambushing them.

 

[Druckles]

Particularly against heavies. It's one of my favourite weapons, simply for being so satisfying.

 

[Sheepo]

It's really not hard to flame somebody and then switch to it in a second, especially if you're ambushing them.

If you're close enough to axe them you should be flaming them.

 

[Absinthe]

If you're close enough to axe them you should be flaming them.

Many cases, yes. Others no, as I'd prefer the certainty of a point blank crit as opposed to:

A - The soldier turning around and demolishing me with a rocket.
B - The heavy turning around and wrecking me, especially if he has a medic. (I can take down healed medics pretty easily with two axe hits)
C - Groups of medics that will heal each other.

All are problems compounded by latency and strange hit detection against mobile target. Even if's not always as practical as simply flaming them to death, it's immensely satisfying and it's not too tricky to pull off. It's still heaps better than the standard axe.

 

[Druckles]

Healed heavies, you mean?

Heavies on there own take a bit of burning and a crit. Three crits usually for fully healed heavies. If the heavy has a medic it tends not to be worth the rush unless he's distracted and/or is damaged.

If you're close enough to axe them you should be flaming them.

Entirely not true. Particularly from behind.

 

[Absinthe]

I don't do it often, but if in the middle of a firefight and the Heavy's taking damage already, I sometimes find it convenient to try for him if if the medic is unreachable there's some other barrier.

 

[-Psy-]

I hope they nerf engineer's crit chance to give the Spy a decent chance of escaping from a sapped sentry without being killed by a one-hit wrench hit...

 

[Sheepo]

Many cases, yes. Others no, as I'd prefer the certainty of a point blank crit as opposed to:

A - The soldier turning around and demolishing me with a rocket.
B - The heavy turning around and wrecking me, especially if he has a medic. (I can take down healed medics pretty easily with two axe hits)
C - Groups of medics that will heal each other.

All are problems compounded by latency and strange hit detection against mobile target. Even if's not always as practical as simply flaming them to death, it's immensely satisfying and it's not too tricky to pull off. It's still heaps better than the standard axe.

A - True, but if you're already behind them, if you circle them well it shouldn't matter, particularly with the BB.
B - I'll give you this one. Axetinguisher is perfect in this situation.
C - This seems the worst time to switch to me. If one or even two medics aren't healing they still can't do much damage. Burning straight through the health whil they run around charging is the best option.

D - I'll have to agree with you on that one. Incredibly fun to use.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It sounds to me like you're just very good with it, so you're on the biased side

Edit: Drookles, if you used the BB and are behind a victim, you should definitely reconsider

 

[Druckles]

Edit: Drookles, if you used the BB and are behind a victim, you should definitely reconsider

If you used the BB, you should definitely reconsider.

Effin' overpowered wrench.

Let me hit you with my piddly little knife!

Edit: Looking at that chart, there really is little point in the syringe gun.

 

[nipples]

Edit: Looking at that chart, there really is little point in the syringe gun.

Not many people even use the Syringe Gun after getting the other one. I'd still choose the plain old Syringe Gun and Bonesaw any day.

 

[Sheepo]

If you used the BB, you should definitely reconsider.

If I'm out in the fight then I definitely have BB. Pushing stickies is only so useful. If I'm back on defense, helping out my team, I go airblast.

 

[Druckles]

Pushing stickies is only so useful.

Pssht. Pushing rockets. Pushing grenades. Pushing enemies. Pushing ubers. So many more uses than just that.

 

[Sheepo]

Rockets: avoid them.
Grenades: avoid them.
Ubers: avoid them.

People you're standing behind: burn 'em. Burn 'em all.

 

[Laivasse]

Ubers: avoid them.

While I suck too much with the compression blast to consistently do much about rockets and grenades, I would have to say that you aren't fulfilling the pyro's potential for your team if all you're doing is avoiding ubers when they appear.

Even if it's suicide for you, a couple of blasts on the uber target can buy your team enough time to save a sentry position. If you go one better and manage to corner the medic, or keep the uber target frozen for the duration, then you've effectively nullified it totally.