Ethics Poll

[Solaris]

You're on a bridge above a train track.
Underneath the Bridge are 5 People tied to the track. A Train is coming.
The only way to stop it is either by:
Jumping in the way of the Train, however you are quite thin, and jumping in the path of the train will only give a 33% chance of stopping it. There is however a fat man next to you, if you push him onto the track there is a 90% chance it will stop the train.

The train is empty and en-route to a scrap heap. There is no possibility of anyone dying except for thoose mentioned.

You can push the fat man off, who will definatley die, with a 90% chance of saving the other five and yourself.

Jump off yourself, with only a 25% chance of saving the 5 people, you will definatley die, and the fat man will definatley live.

Do nothing

What would you do?

 

[Insano]

I'd do nothing at the moment, I'm afraid. At the moment itself you're freezed, and not able to do anything.

If I would have some time to think about it, I would push the fat man.

 

[Griz]

I voted "Do Nothing". Simply because i don't feel that i could murder someone i know nothing about even if it would save the lives of five strangers.

Having said that, i'm sure if the number of people at risk were to increase, there would come a point when i probably would act (by pushing the fat guy). Don't know what that number would be though......

 

[Solaris]

I'd push the fat guy.

I think the most ethical thing to do however would be to push the fat guy, and then jump down yourself incase he didn't stop it. However that's not a choice.

 

[A True Canadian]

I highly doubt jumping off the bridge onto the tracks (or pushing the fat man onto the tracks) would be enough to stop the massive kinetic energy of the train. Sadly, those 5 people are hopelessly screwed.

Do Nothing.

 

[Griz]

I highly doubt jumping off the bridge onto the tracks (or pushing the fat man onto the tracks) would be enough to stop the massive kinetic energy of the train. Sadly, those 5 people are hopelessly screwed.

Do Nothing.

Maybe he's really, really really really REALLY fat!?!?!

 

[Solaris]

I highly doubt jumping off the bridge onto the tracks (or pushing the fat man onto the tracks) would be enough to stop the massive kinetic energy of the train. Sadly, those 5 people are hopelessly screwed.

Do Nothing.

Newsflash mate, it's a hypothetical situation.

 

[A True Canadian]

Maybe he's really, really really really REALLY fat!?!?!

If he was fat enough to stop the train in time, then I'd wager that the bridge would collapse, killing the 5 people anyway.

 

[kirovman]

Push the fat guy, and in the 10% chance event that he doesn't stop the train, hey, you've killed 6 birds with one stone. Monster Kill?

 

[A True Canadian]

Newsflash mate, it's a hypothetical situation.

Well even still, I would do nothing.


I know I would be too much of a coward to sacrifice myself like that. Even if it meant the survival of those 5 people tied to the tracks, I have a feeling I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it. I would just freeze of shock.

And if I sacrificed the fat guy, my life would be forever haunted with taking the life of an innocent passer by. Those 5 other people I would be able to cope with because people kill other people all the time in this world, and I'm used to it. The difference there and with the other alternative is that I would be having direct involvement in the fat man's death. His death would be on my hands. Those 5 other people are on someone elses.

Either way someone is going to die. The fat man and myself are out of harms way, and there's no guarantee that either of us would be able to stop the train.

 

[Griz]

I think the most ethical thing to do however would be to push the fat guy, and then jump down yourself incase he didn't stop it. However that's not a choice.

Not sure i agree with that. As far as i see it, there is only one outcome where i can legitimately have a clear conscience and that is to do nothing. In this case, the deaths of the 5 people are on another person's hands. In the case of the other two outcomes, i'd either end up a murderer (by pushing the fat guy) or end up sacrificing my life in a futile (statistically) attempt to save the 5 strangers.

 

[kirovman]

You do all realise there was a switch to change the course of the train to another railtrack?

You monsters!

 

[Griz]

You do all realise there was a switch to change the course of the train to another railtrack?

You monsters!

meh....i'd still do nothing D:

 

[kirovman]

That's the spirit. :cheers:

 

[Drackard]

I'd do nothing, simply because at the time of this incident i'd be in too much shock to even move let alone think about what to do next, i know i certainly wouldn't sacrifice myself though as i'm fat, therefore i could be the fat man !! you'll never push me !

 

[Javert]

Ethics is not one of the high points of my character I'm afraid.

 

[Ren.182]

I wouldn't be able to bring myself to push the fat guy. It's got nothing to do with him and he's just there. I wouldn't want his death on my mind for the rest of my life.

I doubt i could jump to save them either... Just killing myself is not something i would be able to do. Maybe if it was my family down there, or my girlfriend, or someone special, then maybe i could. It'd be hard.

 

[Naudian]

Heh I think that scenario is a little dumb, could be a better scenario with the same type of question, but in this case I would probably take the 90% of saving 5 people and 100% chance of saving myself, rather than the 100% chance of killing 5 people and saving 2, including myself.
There's no way I would risk a 75% chance of killing me and 5 others though.

 

[FoB_Ed]

I'll jump in front of the train. Fatty can join me if he wants too

 

[Solaris]

Not sure i agree with that. As far as i see it, there is only one outcome where i can legitimately have a clear conscience and that is to do nothing. In this case, the deaths of the 5 people are on another person's hands. In the case of the other two outcomes, i'd either end up a murderer (by pushing the fat guy) or end up sacrificing my life in a futile (statistically) attempt to save the 5 strangers.

So it's not murder if you watch someone die, even when you are fully empowered to save them?

And you guys, psychological factors like shock ect. arn't really the idea behind it, its what you would find more ethically acceptable. I should have worded it better.

To thoose who did nothing, what if there was a 100 people on the track, would it then be acceptable to push the guy? And to thoose who did, what if there was only two people on the tracks?

 

[Glirk Dient]

Push the fat guy in the way of the train on the other side of the bridge so the train kills the 5 and the fat guy. Then take their wallets and go to a strip club. I figure if the fat guy was standing next to me, that was his first mistake. I hate fat people that stand next to me on bridges. Second if the people below were dumb enough to get themselves tied up, well its natural selection. Someone has it out for them and they are gonna die anyways.

In all seriouseness I would actually put a penny on the train track and derail that son biatch.

 

[Drackard]

Ah i see, silly Solaris ... in which case ... hmm

After much thought i've decided that it would be more acceptable to risk one mans life to save the others, assuming you've had time to sit down and have a cup of tea to make sure he's ok with the, "your fat enough to stop a train" situation

 

[Solaris]

He's completely against it, does not want to die.

Another intresting thing is. You and 6 over people are trapped in a sea cave, you are all about to drown, there is a hole in the wall which another fat guy has tried to climb through and has got stuck. There's no way you can get him unstuck alive, and theres no other way out. The fat man however will survive as his heads on the other side, you and the other 5 however will drown. Luckily you have a stick of dynamite. The fat man is pleading for his life, if you blow him up you will all be able to fit through the hole and survive.

Do you blow him up? And to thoose who didn't push the fat guy off the bridge, why is it more acceptable to blow him up in this situation to save the same amount of lives?

 

[Sulkdodds]

What in hell do you have against fat people?

Realistically, I'd untie them.

Alternatively, who has tied them to the track? Surely it is the fat man. He deserves to die to save them.

 

[A True Canadian]

Another intresting thing is. You and 6 over people are trapped in a sea cave, you are all about to drown, there is a hole in the wall which another fat guy has tried to climb through and has got stuck. There's no way you can get him unstuck alive, and theres no other way out. The fat man however will survive as his heads on the other side, you and the other 5 however will drown. Luckily you have a stick of dynamite. The fat man is pleading for his life, if you blow him up you will all be able to fit through the hole and survive.

Do you blow him up? And to thoose who didn't push the fat guy off the bridge, why is it more acceptable to blow him up in this situation to save the same amount of lives?

Well, I'd cheat and use the dynamite to blow another hole in the cave, then go get help for the fat guy.


But if I only had to choose between blowing him up or not, then yes I would. He made a decision that has resulted in the deaths of 5 people (and likely himself) unless he is removed from the hole. The fat man is the one who put us in danger. He is the one endangering our lives. And in a survival situation where there is a threat to my safety, the threat should be eliminated.

Again I would try and find a workaround that would avoid his death, but like the train example such an alternative isn't allowed. If blowing up the fat man guarantees my survival and 4 others, then it has to be done.


EDIT:

Alternatively, who has tied them to the track? Surely it is the fat man. He deserves to die to save them.

 

[Ren.182]

Do you blow him up? And to thoose who didn't push the fat guy off the bridge, why is it more acceptable to blow him up in this situation to save the same amount of lives?

This time theres 100% chance the others will survive... whilst with the train there was a 10% chance the fat guy AND the 5 would die...

 

[Solaris]

What if he was normal weight, and it collapsed on him as he was climbing through, blowing him up would blow away the rubble, and you would definatley escape as would you comrades, but he would die, and hes begging for his life again.

 

[kirovman]

What in hell do you have against fat people?

Realistically, I'd untie them.

Alternatively, who has tied them to the track? Surely it is the fat man. He deserves to die to save them.

Ah, the twist in the riddle.

Does it have to be a fat person?

 

[Zeus]

I wouldn't do anything. First off I would be too stunned at what was going on to react. If for some reason I did have time to think about it I wouldn't push him in, a crazy theoretical solution which may or may not even work and may result in the death of 6 people instead of 5.

 

[Drackard]

I say we start a mob and stick Solaris in the hole you fattist !!

 

[Solaris]

Hey, I didn't I'm not the one arguing for blowing up fat people, I'm just intrested at what situation would have to arrive to make it acceptable.

 

[Griz]

So it's not murder if you watch someone die, even when you are fully empowered to save them?

And you guys, psychological factors like shock ect. arn't really the idea behind it, its what you would find more ethically acceptable. I should have worded it better.

To thoose who did nothing, what if there was a 100 people on the track, would it then be acceptable to push the guy? And to thoose who did, what if there was only two people on the tracks?

No, I don't believe it's murder. Firstly because inaction does not equal murder particularly when the alternatives are suicide or murder of another innocent party. Also, you're not empowered to save them but empowered to potentially save them - unless you assume that if you push the fat and jump in front of the train yourself would definitely stop the train in which case what makes the lives of you and the fat guy any less valuable than the lives of the five on the track?

As i said in my first post in this thread, i do believe that if there were a sufficient number of people's lives at risk (on the track) such as your example of 100, then yes i'd push the fat guy simply because the lives of the many out-weigh the life of the one (which differs from your earlier example where i don't belive that the lives of the few would necessarily out-weigh the life of the one).

In your next example.....yeah, i'd blow the fat guy up. Why? 'cos it's my life at risk, and i'm somebody i really care about!!

 

[Drackard]

Oh no you don't, theres no charming your way out of this one ! ... however .. what if we were to replace the Fat guy with someone else

 

[A True Canadian]

What if he was normal weight, and it collapsed on him as he was climbing through, blowing him up would blow away the rubble, and you would definatley escape as would you comrades, but he would die, and hes begging for his life again.

The difference here is that the rubble collapsing is by accident and wasn't the normal-weighted man's fault. The scenario is still the same though. Sacrifice 1 to save 5.

I would however think of this normal-weighted man as a hero because it could just have easily been anyone of us who could have been trapped under the rubble. I'd be traumatized though.

 

[Insano]

Oh no you don't, theres no charming your way out of this one ! ... however .. what if we were to replace the Fat guy with someone else

KngHenry?

 

[Solaris]

No, I don't believe it's murder. Firstly because inaction does not equal murder particularly when the alternatives are suicide or murder of another innocent party. Also, you're not empowered to save them but empowered to potentially save them - unless you assume that if you push the fat and jump in front of the train yourself would definitely stop the train in which case what makes the lives of you and the fat guy any less valuable than the lives of the five on the track?

That's the pickle, you might not save them. Maybe theres some formula that would say when it's okay, what risks and how many can die to save a number of people.

As i said in my first post in this thread, i do believe that if there were a sufficient number of people's lives at risk (on the track) such as your example of 100, then yes i'd push the fat guy simply because the lives of the many out-weigh the life of the one (which differs from your earlier example where i don't belive that the lives of the few would necessarily out-weigh the life of the one).

In your next example.....yeah, i'd blow the fat guy up. Why? 'cos it's my life at risk, and i'm somebody i really care about!!

What if he was thin ?

 

[Griz]

What if he was thin ?

Depends on whether his chances of stopping the train remained the same.

If so, then yeah i'd still push him. If not, then it depends on the chances e.g. if the chances of stopping the train were any less than say...75.32% (i don't know why) then no, i wouldn't push him.

 

[Drackard]

KngHenry?

I love the way you think Insano

 

[Solaris]

Attached a diagram.

 

[AntiAnto]

I would freeze, look around waiting for someone to do something wise, nobody would. Therefore I would watch five innocent victims getting killed atrociously and regret it for the rest of my days.