European Parliament election

The Monkey

The Monkey

The Freeman
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So I hope you are all being good Europeans and voting in the upcoming election to the European Parliament. I've already pre-voted. How is the media coverage of this in your country?
 
Everywhere. In here it's almost as important as the real government elections. We have ex-communists, stealing lying ultra rightist scumbags(who are ruling in Estonia), angry greens, smart-seeming rightists and down-to-earth social democrats.

i won't vote.
 
Media coverage is really high here after the expenses scandal. All the main party's are now scared shitless people will vote UKIP to get the UK out of the EU as a punishment vote. Although i'm also strongly considering voting for them as i'm fed up in never getting a say, we keep getting promises of a referendum which we never get.
 
I'll be voting on an ethnic/cultural basis for a party that isn't as progressive as I wish it was.
 
Eejit said:
What?
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We vote them in to represent us and they promise us referendums on key things like The Lisbon Treaty which we never get. We've been promised dozens of referendums and got non of them. We vote and still don't get a say. The EU knows how unpopular these treatys are so they tell our government not to give us a referendum because it'll get rejected.
The EU is just a corrupt organisation with everyone looking out for themselves.
 
PimpinPenguin said:
We vote them in to represent us and they promise us referendums on key things like The Lisbon Treaty which we never get. We've been promised dozens of referendums and got non of them. We vote and still don't get a say. The EU knows how unpopular these treatys are so they tell our government not to give us a referendum because it'll get rejected.
The EU is just a corrupt organisation with everyone looking out for themselves.
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You don't mention the great things that the EU has accomplished. What most people forget is that it's thanks to the EU that you have a minimum of two years warranty on what you buy.

The European elections coincide with the elections of the regional parlements so it's big business.
 
The really huge good thing EU has done is help prevent another major war in Europe from erupting. But it's pretty shitty towards poorer countries in the EU, like many of the Eastern European countries, it is largely inefficient, boggled down in bureaucracy, corruption and certain countries *cough* France *cough* Italy *cough* have waaaay too much power for what is supposed to be a common union.
 
AJ Rimmer said:
The really huge good thing EU has done is help prevent another major war in Europe from erupting. But it's pretty shitty towards poorer countries in the EU, like many of the Eastern European countries, it is largely inefficient, boggled down in bureaucracy, corruption and certain countries *cough* France *cough* Italy *cough* have waaaay too much power for what is supposed to be a common union.
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I'd disagree. I think western societies have progressed to far for another European war to seem reasonable. No matter what disputes we may have with France or Germany we will not want to go to war because civilised countries don't start wars out of self-interest any more. Our governments would never get away with invading France for more 'living room' or something like that.

If a European war did break out I wouldn't trust the EU to stop it anyway. I think the EU failed it's first major test on this when the Balkans wars broke out. The EU did nothing whilst genocide occurred in it's back garden.

The only good I can see in the EU is that it seems to introduce more progressive legislation than my own government would ever introduce on it's own. However the anti-democratic aspect of that is apparent to me and I know the EU may become more reactive than my government and then I wouldn't be happy at all.

The one aspect I do like about it is the universal European extension of Labour laws. I'd like to see the UN become more involved in that area. The biggest battle for the left right now should be the globalisation of labour laws to match the globalisation of capital.
 
RedGuard said:
I'd disagree. I think western societies have progressed to far for another European war to seem reasonable.
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Yes, thanks largely to unions of international cooperation like the European Coal and Steel Community, which furthered trade and inter-dependency so that now the geopolitical situation is so different from the one sixty years ago that a war between the major military powers in Europe is extremely unlikely. That's not only thanks to the EU, of course, but it did help.

And yes, the war in the Balkans is a great example of how the EU sucks at dealing with smaller nations. Poorer countries in Europe, primarily the Eastern bloc often have very little to gain by joining the EU since they will then have to conform to trade rules that they cannot possibly afford to abide by, among other things. And if you're not in the EU, the EU really doesn't give two shits about you, even though terrible atrocities may be taking place very close to home.
 
I'm voting for George Bush as president of the world.

That is what this is about, right?
 
I'm voting for the danish eurosceptic party Junibevægelsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Movement), which seeks to reform the EU to a democratic entity that only deals with cross-border issues, instead of the undemocratic, ludicrously bureaucratic, corrupt, grossly incompetent behemoth it currently is. Unfortunately they seem to be losing their only MEP (we only elect 13 members), and due to a voting coalition my vote will probably end up being transferred to Folkebevægelsen mod EU, which seeks to secede from the EU and rejoin the EFTA, which is better than nothing I guess, although I prefer Junibevægelsens more constructive approach.

Media coverage is piss poor here and participation in the election seems to be decreasing just like it's done every time since the first election.

On the same day we'll also be participating in a referendum for the rewriting of our constitution, to allow females born first in the royal family to become the monarch, rather than males always taking precedence. In order for the referendum to pass, 40% of the population as well as the majority of voters need to vote yes, and due to the low participation in EU elections, there's a big chance that it won't pass. It would be fun seeing the plan blow up in the face of our politicians, and it will hopefully spark a debate about what purpose a monarchy serves in a 21st century democracy. The whole referendum is a joke anyway, since it's pointless talking about equality between sexes when the whole institution is based on people with certain blood being better than others. So I'll be giving a blank vote on that one.
 
The Monkey said:
So I hope you are all being good Europeans and voting in the upcoming election to the European Parliament. I've already pre-voted. How is the media coverage of this in your country?
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It isn't.

Also Britons in general don't give a shit about European elections.


Because we generally don't give a shit about the EU.


Sometimes I think we joined the party just so we didn't feel left out, but were just not feeling the tunes tonight either, ya know?.
 
It's funny how people don't see the contradiction in voting for anti-EU parties to represent them in the EU on the platform that the EU is undemocratic.
 
Eejit said:
It's funny how people don't see the contradiction in voting for anti-EU parties to represent them in the EU on the platform that the EU is undemocratic.
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It's not so black and white.

Read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit_in_the_European_Union

It also doesn't appear to mention the fact that the Commission, an unelected institution, is the only institution capable of introducing new legislation, and also has the ability to shut down changes to legislation proposed by the parliament (something that you'd never find in a properly democratic parliament). Then there's also the fact that the EU again and again changes its rules to prevent certain politicians they don't agree with from voicing their opinion in the parliament, while openly stating that they did it for this purpose.

Edit: Also, absolutely no form of transparency or control over lobbyists.
 
*dons ignorant hat*
So what are Libertas' actual policies? All I can tell from their propaganda is "EU is undemocratic monster thingy and WE MAKE RIGHTNESS GOOD" and word on the street is that they're a bunch of loonies/crooks. Also, they claim they have loads of support in other countries (of course, they would). Does Libertas have a support base in any of the international forumites' countries? I've never voted before (never been of age) and I'm really not sure now. I really don't know enough about the different candidates and parties. Must research.
 
It's hardly as undemocratic as most demonise it to be however, with little to no understanding other than the rhetoric they hear.

None of us live in true democracies but rather variations on the republic model.
You say the Commission is unelected, but as with large numbers of government bodies in member states it is appointed by elected governments. As there are no dictatorships in the EU I don't really have a problem with this.
 
I think this is the problem which most people have with the EU; They don't understand it.
They don't understand it because it's so opaque. We just don't know how it works half the time.

That's why I don't like it. It's far away and I just feel completely powerless in changing it.
Having elected politicians then elect people feels like the process is being far too removed to be called democratic.
 
Heh, look at your own government.
How many voters actually have any direct influence over the election of the PM? How about the makeup of the Cabinet?
 
Enough power that these people crawl and beg and pander to whatever policy gets them the most votes.


I like that.

I like weak pandering politicians who spend more time managing PR and what policy is going to get them more votes then giving them the peace and time to get their own ideas how to run things. Democracy isn't about effective strong government, its about keeping it weak and pathetic so it can never truly challenge people's freedom.


The EU doesn't crawl on its belly begging me for my vote. I don't like that.
 
Except as we all know the majority of people are idiots and know **** all about politics. Politicians shouldn't pander to the lowest common denominator, but try to raise the bar.
 
Hardly a convincing argument. Not much there to convince anybody that the institutions of the EU are democratic, the tory writer seems to assume the reader will be with him on that already.
Also poorly written in general. He spends about two lines establishing that MPs are going to be seen the same way MEPs are and goes from there to blowing his own trumpet about having come up with Cameron's ideas before he did.
 
That 84% of our laws come from the EU is all anyone needs to know.
 
repiV said:
That 84% of our laws come from the EU is all anyone needs to know.
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That still says nothing about how democratic the institutions may be, only that the EU is active in creating legislation. Plus, give reliable source please.
 
If I have to hear one more person bring up the "Bendy bananas ban" one more ****ing time, I'm gonna lose it- IT! ISN'T! TRUE!
 
It's not the case any more, but it is true that they had a lot of...ah...common market rules about food that were very silly. They dropped them though.
 
Eejit said:
That still says nothing about how democratic the institutions may be, only that the EU is active in creating legislation. Plus, give reliable source please.
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A large proportion would also make a lot of sense if what the EU mostly legislates on is trade, labour, health and safety, all of that: these things comprise most of the law of any country.

I received a leaflet claiming the EU was undemocratic when I was at the G20 protests. I'll see if I can dig it out and relate its arguments.
 
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