European Psycho Chapter 1 - Fractal Core

[Sprafa]

Representative Democracy

Democracy doesn't means freedom you know ? Many people around here seem to take those words as synonimous. Democracy=Freedom. Under the rule of capitalist democracy, the truth is that democracy is quite far away from what I'd call freedom. To sustain the consumist society with the evergrowing minimun wage that scales up the life quality of the populace, you require massive propaganda, which of course tips the system to the downer side of instability. So, how will democracy cope with these huge demands ? Afterall, if capitalism is that unstable, democracy can't really be controlled by the overall dumb and idiot populacional mass. So you get representative democracy. Which is a synonim of "you're not smart enough to rule yourself, and you need your Big Brother to do it for you". So, we can elect a BB to watch over us. But does the scale of choice leaves us with that much difference ? Logic tells us "No". If a populace is majorly extreme right-wing, they'll get one moderate-to-extreme and one extreme right-wing party, and possibly a few contenders. If a populace is moderate, they'll get a few moderate to right-left and that's it. So, the people get their way anyway...

Actually, no. Modern history shows us that the people is many time ignored by their elected leaders. The war in Iraq showed tons of countries where there were minor support for it, yet the "supposed" elected representatives of the people got away with their bidding. So, who really rules the nation ? They do.
The man we elect do their own deeds with no real interest in the people's. Sometimes, they are temporarly aligned, and that's it. The people simply choose the one whom they have more stances temporarly aligned with.

So please. If you align with representative democracy as the ultimate political system, that's because you're too dumb to rule yourself.

 

[The Monkey]

How do you suppose we "rule ourselves"? You can't simply vote in every single matter. Let's ignore the huge costs and effort that would take, and think of it in praxis. This is how the results would be.
More money to healthcare? Yes
More money to schools? Yes
More money to the defence? Yes
More money to the police? Yes
Lower taxes? Yes

It simply wouldn't work

I guess I am too dumb to rule myself.

 

[Sprafa]

Polls tell you the opinion of the people on every important subject. Certainly corruption can tamper that, but it's the easiest solution.

 

[Scoobnfl]

Polls tell you the opinion of the people on every important subject. Certainly corruption can tamper that, but it's the easiest solution.

so you propose rule by public opinion then?


that is a terrible idea as 80% of the american public was ready to turn the ME into an uninhabitable glass wasteland after 9/11.

the system we have is IMHO the best in the world. power is checked and balanced well and no one branch can run roughshod over the others.

it's not bad to want perfection, but when you talk of decisions of govt. being based on something as insignificant as public opinion in regards to things as important to our country like trade, defense, taxes, etc... you are asking for trouble beyond belief. especially with the way questions are able to be manipulated.

 

[The Mullinator]

Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time.

I strongly agree with this. Democracy is a terrible form of government, unfortunately we really havn't implemented anything better yet.

The people can't rule everything properly, as the selfish species that we are there is simply no way so many people could do what would be best for the nation as a whole in the present and especially the future.

A dictatorship is the only form of government that can do what is best but only if it doesn't become corrupted. Problem is as we all know a non-corrupt dictatorship that will do what is right never really seems to happen.

 

[Scoobnfl]

I strongly agree with this. Democracy is Problem is as we all know a non-corrupt dictatorship that will do what is right never really seems to happen.

why?





because








absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[The Mullinator]

why?
because

absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Its not as simple as that, there can be good dictators. Heck even in Athens before democracy there were some very good dictators:
http://www.publicbookshelf.com/publ..._Worlds_Famous_Events_Vol_1/ancientg_bfa.html

One day Pisistratus appeared suddenly in the market-place covered with blood and cried out that the nobles had sought to kill him as the friend of the commons. Instantly these commons decreed that they would form a bodyguard to protect him. With this guard to help him Pisistratus gradually assumed power over everything, and became "tyrant," the first tyrant of Athens (560 B.C.).

The career of this tyrant Pisistratus was picturesque and varied in the extreme. He seems to have been a wise and good and powerful ruler. Athens prospered under him as she had never done before. Nevertheless, the nobles were, naturally enough, always plotting against him. The Alcmaeonidae, after all the fuss of getting them out of the country, had been allowed to return. Their leader, Megacles, a grandson of that Megacles who had brought the curse upon them, headed an uprising which drove Pisistratus out of Athens. But Megacles quarrelled with his party and formed an alliance with the exiled tyrant, who married a daughter of Megacles, and so won his way to power a second time.

Again he lost his position, and yet again by a sudden invasion of the city he recaptured it. At length he made himself so powerful, and so honored also, that he ruled in peace by general consent. When he died in 528 B.C. he had started Athens on her career of wealth, opening the city to the trade of the world, and also on her career of artistic and philosophic splendor, welcoming learned men to his home and beautifying the city with many noble statues and stately buildings.

Its all about who gets into power, the reason most dictatorships don't work is because the only way for someone to actually gain that much power is for themselves to be power hungry and therefor easily corrupted.

 

[Sprafa]

Illuminated dictatorship is the best form of government. The truth is, unfortunately it's proven that mankind IS too dumb to rule itself. WE need to educate ourselves.

 

[Tr0n]

Whats a Illuminated dictatorship?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Well, we can self rule in smaller divisions. When you start getting hundreds, maybe even tens of thousands of people in one vote system though, that's when it doesn't work.

A pretty small town that made almost ALL their own laws by direct democracy, etc, could probably do well. A county or even city that did that would be horrible. This is why a democratic republic is the best form of government on a country scale.

 

[Sprafa]

Whats a Illuminated dictatorship?

it's a term for a dictatorship that does exactly what all governments should do (rightfully), that is, improve the country, that's easier without having to worry about being re-elected and your party image.

Unfortunately most are just squambly powerful men trying to rule forever because they like the big house the President lives, and don't give a crap about their people.

 

[Scoobnfl]

Whats a Illuminated dictatorship?

research the iluminati, tri-laterals, council on foreign relations.......


try and do it with an open mind though, there are some very freaky goings on in regards to every one of those groups.

 

[Sprafa]

research the iluminati, tri-laterals, council on foreign relations.......


try and do it with an open mind though, there are some very freaky goings on in regards to every one of those groups.

it has nothing to do with that you conspiracy nut!!

 

[Scoobnfl]

it has nothing to do with that you conspiracy nut!!

conspiracy nut?

:cheese:


there is no such thing as an illuminated dictatorship. it's an oxymoron, it's impossible to happen because of the fallability of humans and the ease with which they are corrupted.

absolute power corrupts absolutely.

that is all.

also the global move towards disarmament of civilian populations and the movement towards one world govt. has been accomplished largely due to the illuminati, council on foreign relations, and the trilaterals.

ask yourself why there has been no discussion/reporting of what is occurring or discussed at trilateral meetings despite there being media personnel in attendance.

do not be a sheeple. do not blindly follow, because you are swayed to do so. question authority. go against the grain. open your eyes.

 

[Hapless]

Hmm, so what happens when the illuminated dictator dies? Do we elect another illuminated dictator? Is he appointed by some governmental body? Is there any guarantee he will be as illuminated as the first illuminated dictator? Nah, I think I'll stick with representative democracy, thanks.

 

[CptStern]

do not be a sheeple. do not blindly follow, because you are swayed to do so. question authority. go against the grain. open your eyes.

you're kidding right? ... :upstare:

 

[Steve]

you're kidding right? ... :upstare:

Isn't he a kick?

Hmm, so what happens when the illuminated dictator dies? Do we elect another illuminated dictator? Is he appointed by some governmental body? Is there any guarantee he will be as illuminated as the first illuminated dictator? Nah, I think I'll stick with representative democracy, thanks.

Whatever. We should go back to the good ol' days. The divine mandate days. Yeah...

"Hey, God said I should rule."

"Okay!"

 

[Hapless]

you're kidding right? ... :upstare:

Yeah because everybody knows only the left can think for themselves. :upstare:

 

[The Monkey]

Isn't he a kick?

Who ?

 

[Steve]

Who ?

Scoobnfl.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah because everybody knows only the left can think for themselves. :upstare:

well at least it's better than all marching to same tired tune

 

[The Monkey]

Scoobnfl.

Yes, I se now. I thought CptStern was quoting you...

But Spartan, have you any better suggestion how a country should be ruled?

 

[Scoobnfl]

you're kidding right? ... :upstare:

you're blind brother.

because I support the foreign policy of Bush, I'm in lockstep with him right?

I lean left on as many issues as I do the right. I'm a registered Independant. This past election here in the US, I would have voted for Joseph Lieberman if the loonie left wouldn't have gotten JFK II nominated. Lieberman would have been a much better choice for the country and probably would have won against Bush because he was not as polarizing a figure as Kerry was. The real question, or dilemma is did the Democrats know that Kerry wouldn't win and chose a candidate that couldn't win to allow Hillary to run for an open whitheouse in 08? If so they did their country a terrible disservice.

 

[Steve]

I lean left on as many issues as I do the right. I'm a registered Independant. This past election here in the US, I would have voted for Joseph Lieberman if the loonie left wouldn't have gotten JFK II nominated.

Could you imagine hearing that whiny, nasal voice every other day for 4 freakin' years? Gaaaa!

 

[Scoobnfl]

Could you imagine hearing that whiny, nasal voice every other day for 4 freakin' years? Gaaaa!

i take it you didn't like lieberman?

 

[Steve]

i take it you didn't like lieberman?

He's all right (don't really like his stance on the gaming industry, but that's a minor issue), I just can't stand his voice! It sounds like his vocal chords are actually IN HIS NOSE.

 

[Hapless]

He's all right (don't really like his stance on the gaming industry, but that's a minor issue), I just can't stand his voice! It sounds like his vocal chords are actually IN HIS NOSE.

I thought I was the only one who thought that. :cheers:

 

[Scoobnfl]

He's all right (don't really like his stance on the gaming industry, but that's a minor issue), I just can't stand his voice! It sounds like his vocal chords are actually IN HIS NOSE.

America lost out by not getting the chance for him to go against W. He was just as tough as W where W won against Kerry and Lieberman was stronger on the domestic issues than W was. The radical elites of the democratic party screwed the country this go round.

 

[Steve]

America lost out by not getting the chance for him to go against W. He was just as tough as W where W won against Kerry and Lieberman was stronger on the domestic issues than W was. The radical elites of the democratic party screwed the country this go round.

Fine, dude. My only point was that his voice is annoying. I was trying to make no other points. That's all.

 

[Scoobnfl]

it has nothing to do with that you conspiracy nut!!

sheeple.



google it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q="illuminated+dictatorship"&btnG=Google+Search

 

[Sprafa]

sheeple.



google it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q="illuminated+dictatorship"&btnG=Google+Search

FFS I meant Illuminated Dictatorship means nothing related to the godamn Illuminati.

Now for everyone's sakes, STFU. You've tried to spread your theories. It's ENOUGH. ok ?

 

[Scoobnfl]

FFS I meant Illuminated Dictatorship means nothing related to the godamn Illuminati.

Now for everyone's sakes, STFU. You've tried to spread your theories. It's ENOUGH. ok ?

Why then when you google "illuminated dictatorship" do all of the results come back with sites pertaining to and including references to the Illuminati, CFR, and Trilaterals?

I would suggest that you STFU. Just because you get butthurt when someone provides info with a point contrary to your own does not give you the standing to tell them to STFU.

playground bully

 

[Sprafa]

Why then when you google "illuminated dictatorship" do all of the results come back with sites pertaining to and including references to the Illuminati, CFR, and Trilaterals?

I would suggest that you STFU. Just because you get butthurt when someone provides info with a point contrary to your own does not give you the standing to tell them to STFU.

playground bully

I know exactly the what the results are for googling "illuminated dictatorship". That's why I explained it first hand.

Check PMs.

 

[yadalogo]

Now Raffa play nice or dont play at all!

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Democracy doesn't means freedom you know ?

Does it?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&oi=defmore&q=define:democracy

Democracy however, is the icon of nations who wish to define themselves as "Free". "Freedom" can categorize into anything -- wether personal or communitive; and people are "Free" to associate as they like.

However, your question is almost like a prompt from another discussion. I wish there was some foreground to its context.

Many people around here seem to take those words as synonimous.

So, when we draw straws it does appear Democracy defines itself a Government for the people. Lets review Socialism, National Socialism, and Communism:

Socialism

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&oi=defmore&q=define:SOCIALISM

National-Socialism

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&oi=defmore&q=define:national+socialism

Communism

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&oi=defmore&q=define:Communism

So there you have it. Socialism defines to equal the headings of both money-making difference and class, based upon production and owner-ship. National-Socialism speaks of itself; and Communism suites to remove classes by removing the Government, eventually leading into an Anarchist system.

Democracy is allowed its Synonymous traits due to what it ended up representing and who used it for representation. If the Russjians used Democracy first before anyone, it would be Synonymous with their political traits.

Under the rule of capitalist democracy, the truth is that democracy is quite far away from what I'd call freedom.

Not to disreguard your post, but whats this about anyway?

To sustain the consumist society with the evergrowing minimun wage that scales up the life quality of the populace, you require massive propaganda, which of course tips the system to the downer side of instability.

To sustain any people(s) within a society, you do need news and propaganda. All of the World Nationale's require a leadance to accord with its economic measures and military support -- yet all World Nationale's are not yet more innocent or less guilty than the brother country next to them.

Instability also is'int a measure of propaganda, but moreso of well-living. If people live well, who needs propaganda? Also, if the majority of a populace is considered "living well", then where is the charged instability?

So, how will democracy cope with these huge demands ?

Like any other country would, of course. :naughty:

So you get representative democracy. Which is a synonim of "you're not smart enough to rule yourself, and you need your Big Brother to do it for you".

Thanks. Anytime.