Explosives made in Iran (Iraqi citizen report)

[golden_fang]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc3_1195608752





still dont think Iran supports the insurgency?

 

[No Limit]

You'd be stupid not to believe that Iran supports the insurgency. So what? We have supported plenty of terrorists in our time to get what we wanted. Remember Al Queda? Yup, they exist thanks to us.

 

[Absinthe]

You'd be stupid not to believe that Iran supports the insurgency. So what? We have supported plenty of terrorists in our time to get what we wanted. Remember Al Queda? Yup, they exist thanks to us.

Oh, well I guess that makes everything hunky dory then. It's all fair! Who cares if Iran is contributing to the bloodshed and undermining the peace process now. We've done shady stuff too, and now it's their turn!

I would really like it if discussions about nukes, religion, or support of terrorism in the Middle East didn't always devolve to comparisons to the United States. That would make my day, I think.

 

[No Limit]

Oh, well I guess that makes everything hunky dory then. It's all fair! Who cares if Iran is contributing to the bloodshed and undermining the peace process now. We've done shady stuff too, and now it's their turn!

I would really like it if discussions about nukes, religion, or support of terrorism in the Middle East didn't always devolve to comparisons to the United States. That would make my day, I think.

That's not the point. Iran is looking out for their interests, just like we are looking out for ours, and just like Saudi Arabia is looking out for theirs. This has been happening for ages, it has nothing to do with right, wrong, good, or evil. It has to do with military strategy and Iran's military would be idiotic to not take advantage of what is going on in Iraq.

 

[Shift]

Of course they fund the terrorism but that still doesn't justifty attacking them, leading to another occupation, or should I say, leading to another situation where soldiers can have their limbs blown off on a daily basis.

 

[Absinthe]

That's not the point. Iran is looking out for their interests, just like we are looking out for ours, and just like Saudi Arabia is looking out for theirs. This has been happening for ages, it has nothing to do with right, wrong, good, or evil. It has to do with military strategy and Iran's military would be idiotic to not take advantage of what is going on in Iraq.

It would help if it didn't sound like a lecture every time it was brought up. Yes, the United States has a large responsibility in the creation of Al Qaeda. But I'm not seeing the direct relevance to this particular, specific topic. While they are related, I'd appreciate some brevity and narrower scope in order to keep it from devolving into another US bash fest.

Basically, I'd like it if subsequent discourse in these topics consisted of:
1.) Future implications in handling of the Middle East.
2.) Future implications in dealing with Iran.
3.) What can be done about it.
4.) Possibly a small show of moral outrage.

Not:
1.) Long, diversionary backtracks into US history.
2.) Point by point comparisons of how much the US sucks just as much.
3.) How much the US sucks.
4.) How much the US sucks.

 

[No Limit]

But again, you are saying I am bashing the united states. Was it idiotic to fund al queda? Well certainly. But that was not my point. My point was to show how this is done by all governments, it is a regular occurance. If everything went great in Iraq and we installed a wonderful democracy with pretty little flowers growing everywhere and all the people loving each other its pretty clear Iran would have been next on the hit list. So they did every thing they could to make sure that didn't happen. They are not stupid, they knew that if we went in there it would become a civil war between the shia and the sunnis. They knew Saudi Arabia would arm the sunnis so they would have to arm the shia. Iran has a lot of stake in the area and we opened up a big door for them by destabalizing Iraq.

What do we do about it? I have no ****ing clue to be perfectly honest with you. I have not studied the area and I have absolutely no military background. I do know from what I have read that invading Iraq was a idiotic mistake and invading Iran would **** this entire world up and I pray that the idiots that got us into this mess know this too. I am the perfect age and in perfect shape for a draft, I'm not looking forward to fighting a war.

Do I wish we all lived in a perfect little happy world where everyone loved each other? Sure. But thats not the case. We are all looking out for our own interests. Do I have moral outrage when it comes to war, sure. But if you are asking me to have more of that outrage in a certain direction I am not able to do that. Iran will do what they have to do to protect their interests. Saudia Arabia will do the same, as will we. And all this "moral outrage" toward Iran put out by our government serves to do one thing, and that is to push closer to war with them. And like I said, it scares the shit out of me as it should scare the shit out of you.

 

[CptStern]

you're overreacting absinthe with the "blame america" defense ..No Limit has a valid point: why is it ok for the US to support terrorism yet not Iran? it's hypocritical to accuse your enemy of doing something you yourself participate in

"if you harbor a terrorist, if you support a terrorist, if you feed a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorists" - George W Bush

this isnt a knight in shining armour taking on evil incarnate, the sooner americans understand this the less likely they'd support another illegal invasion

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/05/protected.terrorists/index.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3465062,00.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/abc_news_exclus.html
http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Iran/218096
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/01/1054406074896.html
http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/1873

 

[The Monkey]

Well Sweden didn't support Al-Qaeda to my knowledge, so am I allowed to criticize Iran?

 

[CptStern]

no one is precluding anyone from criticising Iran or any other country

 

[Absinthe]

you're overreacting absinthe with the "blame america" defense ..No Limit has a valid point: why is it ok for the US to support terrorism yet not Iran? it's hypocritical to accuse your enemy of doing something you yourself participate in

Since when do I support terrorism, Stern? Give me a quote or a source before you start lumping me in a camp that advocates fuddled foreign policy.

Watch who you target.

no one is precluding anyone from criticising Iran or any other country

Bull-effin-crap. Any time somebody does criticize Iran, the discussion gets cockblocked by the very thing taking place in this topic: A diversion into criticism of the United States or some other comparable "evil". You may not be explicitly barring criticism of Middle Eastern countries, but you accomplish the same nonetheless with these freakin' tangents.

The fact is that despite the evidence of Iran being involved with the Iraqi insurgency, a lot of people still view the idea as contentious. The topic addresses this specific issue and it's just getting warped into a bloated circle-jerk where everybody can critique America even though that happens enough every other day on this forum.

Consider the quota exceeded.

 

[CptStern]

Since when do I support terrorism, Stern? Give me a quote or a source before you start lumping me in a camp that advocates fuddled foreign policy.

what? where the hell did I say you support terrorism? who in their right mind would support terrorism?

Watch who you target.

I'm not targeting you, you're being overly defensive

Bull-effin-crap. Any time somebody does criticize Iran, the discussion gets cockblocked by the very thing taking place in this topic: A diversion into criticism of the United States or some other comparable "evil".

I cant think of a topic that doesnt stray from the main point by the second or third post (at least in the politics forum) ...and no cockblocking ..it's balacing out the thread so that it doesnt turn into a one sided "make iran a ****ing glass crater for their evilness" thread. Look, there are times 9usually when I'm not doing it) that I agree however most of it is justified ..I mean every single time I bring up the fact that the US supports terrorist groups in iran people shut up, no one says a goddamn word unless it's some weak-kneed wishy-washy justification "ya well, they're evil we're the good guys" BS

You may not be explicitly barring criticism of Middle Eastern countries, but you accomplish the same nonetheless with these freakin' tangents.

because I'm sick of the ****ing warhawk propaganda, I mean wtf have americans learned nothing from the Invasion of Iraq? we're constantly and consistantly barraged with how evil iran is or how they threaten global stability when it's just a pile of nonsense to justify regime change in iran ..this is absolutely nothing new, Iran has been this way ...well since the islamic revolution when they wrested control from the US supported regime

The fact is that despite the evidence of Iran being involved with the Iraqi insurgency, a lot of people still view the idea as contentious.

who? iran doesnt hide the fact that they support the iraqi shia population ..so did the US until they started deviating from the gameplan, in fact after the invasion they put them in power ..now they support their former enemies, the sunni

The topic addresses this specific issue and it's just getting warped into a bloated circle-jerk where everybody can critique America even though that happens enough every other day on this forum.

but the point is still valid, iran isnt doing this alone, both sides are firing salvos at each other ..it doesnt sit right that only one is blamed while the other is ignored

Consider the quota exceeded.

no need to be flippant or condescending

 

[golden_fang]

awww, why do threads always end up like this?

 

[Nemesis6]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's because when the left has nothing to say, they use the moral equivalence card, also known as, "Yeah, but America also did X back in Y".

 

[99.vikram]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's because when the left has nothing to say, they use the moral equivalence card, also known as, "Yeah, but America also did X back in Y".

Well, when X happens to be Iraq and Y happens to be just two years ago, I think it becomes a relevant counter argument. Iran is supporting terrorist agendas as it always has. But it's not the only country, or for that matter one of few countries to do this. Funding or supporting terrorist/separatist groups is something many governments do.

 

[Nemesis6]

Indeed, but that's not really what is being discussed here. Also, you know that it would just be plain strange for someone to enter a topic discussing American societal flaws, derailing the topic to talk about how Islamic countries are just as bad/worse; This form of discussion is a proverbial stoop to the level of discussion I like to call the "I know you are but what am I" level, commonly practiced in kinter garten and politics. "This is politics!" you say. Foot, meet mouth.

 

[Sulkdodds]

In part, I have to agree with Absinthe and Nemesis (gasp!) here - at least a little, because of course America's foreign policy is directly responsible for the mess that has provoked this facet of Iran's foreign policy. But we're all very aware of America's misdemeanors already; in fact, I'd say most people are more aware of America's constant engagement with terrorism than of Iran's. It's the latter country being talked about and criticised, not the former.

That said, it is being criticised for its involvement in the Iraq war. In some ways it's apt to say "well, look who got us into that whole quagmire in the first place."

 

[No Limit]

In part, I have to agree with Absinthe and Nemesis (gasp!) here - at least a little, because of course America's foreign policy is directly responsible for the mess that has provoked this facet of Iran's foreign policy. But we're all very aware of America's misdemeanors already; in fact, I'd say most people are more aware of America's constant engagement with terrorism than of Iran's. It's the latter country being talked about and criticised, not the former.

That said, it is being criticised for its involvement in the Iraq war. In some ways it's apt to say "well, look who got us into that whole quagmire in the first place."

But again, the point I tried to make was not how morally responsible the US is. My point is that it is common sense for Iran to do this. Just like it is common sense that Saudi Arabia will also do this. I mean shit, we are funding terrorists there too. Its all military strategy (that will come back to bite us in the ass one day).

These idiotic videos and this constant outrage over Iran serves to do one thing and that is bring us closer to war with them. It has nothing to do with nemesis's or anyone elses "moral outrage" over terrorism when they post this shit, it has to do with their idiotic neocon ideology. Bush is ****ing crazy, and these people actually believe what he says when it comes to Iran. That scares the living shit out of me. He still has a year in office left, plenty of time to launch a war. In your country people might be fully aware of how much of a role we have in terrorism but here in this country this is never mentioned. If you did a poll I bet you way more than half of the people here would have no clue we funded al queda and that even today we fund terrorist organizations inside of Iraq. The people here only hear about one side of the story, and that side is that Iran is bad which is why 52% are ****ing stupid enough to actually favor a military strike on Iran.

 

[CptStern]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's because when the left has nothing to say, they use the moral equivalence card, also known as, "Yeah, but America also did X back in Y".

oh shut up, you're such a hypocrite



some of you missed the point entirely ..it's not about whether the US is just as guilty (that's not the point) ..it's the fact that both are fighting a behind the scenes war; there are no good guys here. I mean why hasnt anyone commented on the fact that there's a steady influx of terrorists from pakistan and the government is either complacent or supportive of these groups ..or that turkey supports militia groups that are anti kurdish rebels? or the fact that the US is supporting terrorists with links to Al Qaeda (yes, Al qaeda) ..the very fact that these things are ignored by the media paints a clearer picture as to why the media focus solely on iran; another build up to war

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Interesting find -- nice to know this information is coming out.