From Strength to Strength or All Downhill from here?

H

hell_on_toast

Guest
Befor I really get into writing this I would like to make a few personal points. I unferstand that people will not agree with the points I make here, freedom to choose what you like and what you do not like is agiven, however, what is not agiven is unintelligent blabbling "flaming". You either agree with what I sasy or you dont, criticism is always welcome, "r0fl y0u n00b, HL2 w1ll b3 t3h h4x b1tch" is not. Also I would like to point out that I have not heavily researched what I am writing here, my viewpoints come from reading news on Half-Life 2 posted on these forums and on numerous websites, and as such what I write may be slightly inaccurate. Right now that thats out of the way, shall we begin?

When Half-Life first hit the shelfs it was seen as a gaming "messiah", people saw it as a breath of fresh air, something that had never been done befor. It is arguably one of the greatest games ever made and their is no doubt in my mind that it reformed first person shooters as a genre. I must admit, I am something of a half-life newbie, I can freely admit to only playing the game in 2000 after receiving it as a gift, even after I got it I only saw it as "the thing i need to play counter-strike" and I never gave it the respect it deserved (that and it always gave me a cracking headache). But eventually I decided to give it a go, and in 2001, I was blown away. Yup, 2001, many years after its origional release and played in the age where other great fps with their (half life inspired) engines and stories were emerging. That is what make Half-Life so special, in the age of "FarCry", "UT2004" and other games such as "Painkiller", Half-life is still playable not just that, but damn enjoyable.

So, why am I banging on about Half-Life? For gods sake man, we're approaching a possible solid release date soon (hopefully), any month now we could be cradling that celephane wrapped bundle of love. I am talking about how good Half-Life is because it scares me, I should be brimming with confidence, after all they did it once! why not again? Well maybe, just maybe the industry has lost its sparkle, maybe in 2004 we can have no more great games because the genre of FPS is about to die. Maybe we have tried everything, that every single thing that can make a game unique and enjoyable has been tried and tested befor, wether on the P.C or on a console. In the world we live in now its harder to love a game, if someone asked me wether I would be playing FarCry in a years time I would say "no", the same goes for many of the current releases.

So when we being to play HL2, as we marvel at its physics engine, its battles, its atmosphere and its beauty, as we kill our friends online, as we install a new inventive mod, we must think to our selfs. Is this game going to change not just my ideas and ideals on gaming, not just change (and resurect) the FPS genre, to beat Half-Life and to stake its claim as one of the greatest games ever made in history, it will have to change my life. I believe it can be done, and i'm sure the people at valve are sure it can be done.

But will it?

Im not trying to destory anyone's hopes, if it can be done, Half-Life 2 will do it, but maybe past glory's, a dead genre and hordes of over ambitious fans will take away the magic that made Half-Life so great.
 
I think it will hold true to Half-Life but against todays games.
We will just have to wait and find out I guess. ;)

Gabe says Half-Life was like The Hobit.
Half-Life 2 is like the LOTR.
Lets hope it is so.
 
go back and watch the e3 videos. then cry as you realise writing all that was a waste of your time \o/. it wont just be as good as half-life. it will be BETTER. imo anyway, this is based on the videos, what valve have said, and all the people that have played the beta. (myself not included)
 
Hmm, interesting. But we are just getting into the world of physics, and that will last a long time. Also, graphics are constantly upgrading, along with everything else.
FPS's won't be dead, for a long time I imagine. What could take it's place? Only more advanced versions. And believe me, there is ALOT we can do with FPS's, that we haven't done yet.

I wouldn't worry a bit, and never have.

EDIT: How could you people not understand what he is saying? And dont spam like that posey, that is not what he is saying, and you are not contributing to the discussion.
 
hell_on_toast said:
So, why am I banging on about Half-Life?
Click to expand...

Ummm.....where are you banging on Half-Life in that post? What was the point of your post? I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to say.
 
I pity you for even writing this post. Thanks for wasting 3 minutes of my time. And anyway, just because HL2 may not have exactly new elements doesn't mean it won't be good. Shit I think the leak alone is better than some games out there today. HL2 will be amazing and probably one of the best games to ever grace our screens. So yes I think it can be done, you should think so too, we haven't even played it so have a little faith.
 
Half-Life 2 will probably not be as revolutionary as HL was, just like SOF2 isn't as controversial as SOF1 was. But still HL2 will be pretty much god damn awesome.
 
Im trying to say that Half Life was a great game and it could stand as an obstacle to Half Life 2 becoming a greater game because of the standards it set
 
Half-Life 2 is amongst another era, hence hl1 isint valid compitition for hl2
 
If Valve focuses on gameplay like they did on the first game (I think Gabes rule was to keep something interesting happening every 2 minutes) then add on new aspects to the game (phsyics, improved AI, more emotion connection to the characters, then you should have a game almost as good, if not better than the original.
 
uhh wouldnt it be better becuze they had an extra 3 years more than hl
 
hopefully time does translate out to quality, but its not necessarily so
 
tCh said:
uhh wouldnt it be better becuze they had an extra 3 years more than hl
Click to expand...
and their own engine that they know inside and out that they built around the game, not vice versa.
 
I kinda agree with your post, not that HL2 won't be as good as we all thinks, but that the FPS genre is dying.
I've played a few games, but no games have made me addicted like half life.

FarCry,Painkiller,Halo,UT2004 and all those don't have that original and fresh storyline like half life. It's all bullshit in comparison. For those who plays every FPS game out there, have probably played the genre to its death.

I think that one of the key differences between half life and the other games is the unique storyline and all the cool puzzles in the game.

When i played half life i always felt like a small peice of the big picture, exept close at the end, were you escape and you have a talk with the mighty G-man. You were just the right man at the wrong place, just there as a experiment-associate(?) doing your job and something goes wrong and you have to survive. I'm playing through half life again ( for the 3rd time now ) and it still amazes me after all these years.
[/Badly spelled rant.]

Edit: I really don't think you need that huge disclaimer, people respect your opinion and they won't flame you as long as you're not biased or your text looks like some 4 year old retard wrote it.
 
I'm not sure.

I think Vampire: Bloodlines looks amazing, and can very well reinvent the fps/rpg genre.
So then we have at least 2 games that can breathe some life into the genre with some truly original and well implemented ideas.

Half-Life 2 for me isn't so much about new gameplay as it is about the story and the immersiveness into the hl universe.
Sure there'll probably be new gameplay elements, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if there weren't.
 
Well I dont think the FPS Genre is dieing. Okay so we might have covered most of the obvious situations, and a lot of the not-so-obvious 1s. But its FPS's that get the big budgets and that introduce most of the new technology you see in games, certianly graphics-wise. It's becoming more of a challenge to create an "innovative" game, but theres still a lot of refinement out there to be done. Everyone would have said that the WW2 scenario was overdone and dieing, right up until CoD came out. A great game is not necessarily made by the novel situation, but how the writer and designers potray that to the gamer. HL2 is bringing a lot of new stuff to the table and I think its going to be interesting how other developers play with this stuff when it filters down through licenses.

And hell, no1 ever tired of fragging the enemy :)
 
We expect too much from HL2, and no matter what valve does to make it the best, you'll always find some unhappy people...

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the story...maybe that will be the turning point of gaming. HL2 could totally revolutionize story telling as we know it.
 
FarCry was a very dissapointing game. If reviewers (or the general public) say that FarCry is better than Half-Life 2, then yes, the FPS is a dying genre. Other than that, VALVe hasn't even stated all of the new things that they have put in the game, there are definetly some surprises in store for us. With the way the story plays out, it seems to be one of the best in FPS' history (Halo and FarCry have a very bland plot). We've also forgotten that the ModScene is partly what made Half-Life so prominent in the first place, and I'm sure we won't be dissapointed with the mods coming out for Half-Life 2.
:cheers: Here's to logical thinking.
 
We expect too much from HL2, and no matter what valve does to make it the best, you'll always find some unhappy people...

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the story...maybe that will be the turning point of gaming. HL2 could totally revolutionize story telling as we know it.
Click to expand...


Or...It could suck. Like many other anticipated games.
 
True, if that's what you hope for. But it's hard to make a game that looks so good, bad.

I disagree with the guy who says halo's plot is bland. It's a very good plot, it's the premise which is stereotypical (sp?) - that is "shoot the aliens/monsters", which in half life's case is also the same. However, both the plots (of halo and halflife) are told and presented well, which makes them good.
 
i think no matter how good HL2 may be, its never going to give pple the exact same feelings/experience they had with HL1. maybe similar but not the same..

its like after HL1, pples' expectations of the HL series has risen and my fear is, HL2 will be compared to HL1 ultimately and may not be compared to games of the current generation as it should be done.

my analogy is one to being jaded after being shown HL1... for some pple, HL2 will never stack up against HL1. :|
 
I dont get why would fps games be dying?

Anytime a great game can come out of nowhere and blow our minds. Thats what hl1 did. Even if hl2 and doom 3 is not good, there might be a new game that no one ever imagined possible. Where are the limits? if anyone knows the limits of creativity, pls tell me.

saying fps is dying after HL is like if someone said that rock'n roll is dying after Led Zep because all the good riffs have been done, or saying that action movies are dying after The Terminator 2. Since games are an artform, a genre cannot die because of a lack of creativity from game developpers.

There is one genre that is unfortunately dying since a few years : adventure games, but this slow death didn't stop Grim Fandango, or The Longest Journey from being done.
 
In terms of originality the fps genre is dying indeed.
Every new release is more of the same.
Ok , there are the obvious visual improvements , and the variations on weapons & enemy models ... but that's it.

I remember being amazed by the "3D" effect in the original Castle Wolfenstein. ("wow ! this is like viortual reality !!")
After cw there was duke nukem 3D , the first fps I played over the internet.
DN3D made me laugh out loud , it had some very cool & original weapons and it had an excelent atmosphere.
I remember the comotion among my friends for the first unreal game , but at that time i was already losing interest in the fps genre.

Ok , there were quake & doom etc and i played those games a few times by my friends... but they -already- just couldn't amaze / interest me.

Quake III arena was good fun for online frag amusement , and it had some very nice graphics ... although i don't consider it being "revolutionary"

When HL was released i didn't even notice. My attention was with the -at that moment- excellent tbs , rts & adventure games. One day i bought the HL "game of the year" box (opf included)
(jeuj ! 2 games for the price of one !)

And ... hallelujah !!! Both HL & OF where super games ! The pace , the way you get sucked into the story , the tension , the brilliant mix between fast paced action & cautionous advancing / puzzeling ... a new milestone :)
And the best part was yet to come :) multiplayer !!
TF , CS , VS , .... aahhh .... hundreds of hours of my life went to those mp sessions !

I've been looking forward to HL2 ever since.
Meanwhile I've played MoH , Halo , Unreal TA , Chaser , XIII , etc ... good games , but nothing special ...

Will HL2 be a new milestone ?
I don't know (i have to play it first) but I hope so , and actualy I do have faith in the guys from Valve.
I just keep reminding myself what Gabe said in an interview back in 2003.
"I'm realy disappointed in the little progress fps genre had made in recent years , and that's something we want to change with HL2 ... to set new standards , like we did with HL1"
 
lans said:
True, if that's what you hope for. But it's hard to make a game that looks so good, bad.

I disagree with the guy who says halo's plot is bland. It's a very good plot, it's the premise which is stereotypical (sp?) - that is "shoot the aliens/monsters", which in half life's case is also the same. However, both the plots (of halo and halflife) are told and presented well, which makes them good.
Click to expand...

Just my opinion, i think halo sp licked donkey balls.
 
The only game that comes close to HL for me is battlefield1942.

Its the kind of game you either love or hate. I love it.
 
MindCrafter said:
Just my opinion, i think halo sp licked donkey balls.
Click to expand...

The one gripe i had with Halo was the wierd imbalance in its storyboarding, some areas had a good flow to them while others had a wierd long drawn out feeling that had no dialogue what so ever, And what was with those chapter captions that only seemed to be used twice? Anyway other than that i liked halo lol.
 
crabcakes66 said:
The only game that comes close to HL for me is battlefield1942.

Its the kind of game you either love or hate. I love it.
Click to expand...

I concur about BF1942 been playing for nearly 2 years now..

Half life was above average but nothing jaw dropping IMO.
 
Halo would've been awesome if Microsoft didn't ask to use it for the Xbox opening.
Comparing Far Cry in terms of story is ridiculous, even knows Far Cry has an extremely little storyline, same goes for Half-Life however, but Half-Life had 10 times the immersion factor of Far Cry, which added to the story, if you get what i mean?

That been said, Far Cry was a fun game, but people who go about saying that its the best game ever and kicks every other games ass really don't know what it takes to be a top- quality game, like HL or even MOH:AA(Albeit it was just a mindless shooting-fest)....well there hasn't been any other FPS games like HL in ages... i can't think of any. Halo, but Microsoft ****ed it up
Far Cry disappointed me. Everyone built it up to the greatest game ever and then when i load it up and play the first couple of level's im left thinking "Why the hell is this the best FPS ever?"

Anyway back on-topic: Gabe said Half-Life was like The Hobbit, and HL2 is like LOTR, there's going to be a massive difference between the two and he also said that he was much more happy with how Half-Life 2 has turned out compared to Half-Life. He said there are tons and tons more "WOW" scenes in HL2 then Half-Life. And considering Half-Life had its fair number of "WOW" scenes, i'd say its from strength to strength
 
Sparta said:
Halo would've been awesome if Microsoft didn't ask to use it for the Xbox opening.
Comparing Far Cry in terms of story is ridiculous, even knows Far Cry has an extremely little storyline, same goes for Half-Life however, but Half-Life had 10 times the immersion factor of Far Cry, which added to the story, if you get what i mean?

That been said, Far Cry was a fun game, but people who go about saying that its the best game ever and kicks every other games ass really don't know what it takes to be a top- quality game, like HL or even MOH:AA(Albeit it was just a mindless shooting-fest)....well there hasn't been any other FPS games like HL in ages... i can't think of any. Halo, but Microsoft ****ed it up
Far Cry disappointed me. Everyone built it up to the greatest game ever and then when i load it up and play the first couple of level's im left thinking "Why the hell is this the best FPS ever?"

Anyway back on-topic: Gabe said Half-Life was like The Hobbit, and HL2 is like LOTR, there's going to be a massive difference between the two and he also said that he was much more happy with how Half-Life 2 has turned out compared to Half-Life. He said there are tons and tons more "WOW" scenes in HL2 then Half-Life. And considering Half-Life had its fair number of "WOW" scenes, i'd say its from strength to strength
Click to expand...
I somewhat agree. I really hate that Jack Carver guy - too "gung ho" in my opinion - a typical steven seagal.

Far cry had a stupid plot, the characters weren't memorable. Jack was your average Joe, who had to kick some arse of guys and monsters and save the girl (again "kill the aliens/monsters" cliche) but it was fun for the time being as it was the first next gen game. I pity the people who say it's better than half-life - they're actually compaing a 6 year-old game game with this, which shows they still like it...hypocrites.

Half-life had a memorable protagonist, Gordon is not your duke nukem with big abs, muscles or such - just an average scientist (looks like one) who had to do what he had to do. It's realistic, even the worst of times can bring about the best within one, that's what happened here. He is no hero, just a guy who's trying to undo a mistake.
 
Asus said:
Gabe says Half-Life was like The Hobit.
Half-Life 2 is like the LOTR.
Lets hope it is so.
Click to expand...

Well.. did anyone ever play The Hobbit on the ZX Spectrum back in the 80's? It rocked, but I certainly hope HL2 plays a bit better. :)
 
lans said:
I disagree with the guy who says halo's plot is bland. It's a very good plot, it's the premise which is stereotypical (sp?) - that is "shoot the aliens/monsters", which in half life's case is also the same. However, both the plots (of halo and halflife) are told and presented well, which makes them good.
Click to expand...

The plot from Halo seemed to be taken almost directly from an old SF book by Larry Niven, called "Ringworld". Read it - it's one of the most fantastic old SF novels out there... imagination to spare!

If you want your audience to follow a good story, it doesn't have to be done as an FPS with DX9 effects. Does anyone remember how "immersive" Zork was back in the old days?

True, our expectations are higher now... but games comanies are playing up to what they think our expectations are: better gfx, better effects, more action... just like the movies... The first Matrix had imagination... the sequels sucked.

Our FPS's are like movie sequels... each one trying to out-gun and out-explode and, now, out-physics the last one.

Thumbs up to HL and Halo for at least trying to tell a good, old-fashioned yarn in the process. Two thumbs up to HL for making their central character more "real" than most others.
 
Gordon may be "real", but he's not realistic. I mean, a scientist defeating an entire alien army and the government forces , much by himself? That's not realistic, but hey, it's all great fun anyway.
 
I understand your vision and there might be some truth in it but I am certain that HL2 will not be disappointing.
What made the original HL so great was the intense feeling of involvement in the story and the game. You start the game in the wagon (knowing just a much as gordon himself) with a great and relax introduction, no movies or anything, u ARE in the game looking around and exploring while YOU make the story, YOU started the whole problem and see it getting out of hand yourself, People talk to YOU, not a character with a voiceover or anything. It is one continuous story told in the game without cutscenes or anything. THAT in combination with the fabulous gameplay plus the fact that it's a damn good story made HL so special and good.

If you now look at the things you've seen and heard of HL2 so far you know that it WILL give you the same strange feeling you had while you were playing HL1. If I start imagining arriving in the trainstation, getting off and start "exploring" this wonderfull new world and story with the excellent gfx and the same controls as the original (the simpliest en most effective controls in any game ever !) I just KNOW I will experience it just the same and probably even better than HL1 and hope it will indeed set a new standard for the boring becoming fps-genre.

Don't tell me I said anything that aint true
 
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