Frustrations...

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magu

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Having much fun playing TF2 (spending too much time anyway) I also get frustrated sometimes.
It's a mix of player&team, server settings and software related issues.
I'm sure everybody here experienced moments screaming & swearing, because a situation seems not fair, team mates act stupid or some enemy class or tactics seems too powerful. Or just luck not on your side.

It's always fun to be on the winning team but if not...
You always could say: cool down, it's just a fun game, but...
Here a short list of my regular frustrations:


Team Auto-balance

Auto balance is lousy. Especially with less than 10 players per team it really kicks in if one side got one or two players more for a longer time. You can adjust your strategy but only so much...
Same for inactive players. They should go to spectator mode after max30sec of inactivity.
For instance: One team 8 players, the other team 7 players and one standing in the spawn point doing nothing? Guess which team is winning.
I've too often seen un-balanced teams up to 3 players difference playing for a long time until autobalance reacts. By then the game is often already decided. Really annoying.
I attach a screen shot picture. I ensure you it was not a last second thing after everybody else left the game. I played like this ca 3 minutes! In the end they just passed me and captured the remaining points. I did not die though :)

cp_granary0006.jpg



However I would suggest sending odd players automatically in spec mode until somebody leaves or joins and teams are even. Maybe the players with the worst rating should go first.
The other side of the coin: it really sucks if you are autobalanced to the other team after you spent quite some time and effort to win for your old team.

Team communication & leadership

I'm always amazed how disorganized most 'teams' are considering that the whole game concept is about teamplay. One clever or strong player can indeed change the outcome of a game sometimes but in general success depends on teamwork.
So I'm surprised that the use of team chat or voice is very limited, at least the servers I play (mostly Singapore).
Almost everybody tries to just have fun or score personally, but only few players play tactical to ensure victory.
Seeing hordes of snipers and scouts in an defending force, running around like headless chickens...
Well, it's no fun if it is your team.
In the moment some players really work together, communicate and follow a plan, victory is as good as sure.
Otherwise you only can hope that the opponent team is as unorganized as yours.

Last but not least: Overpowered classes

Although I think in general that the gameplay is quite balanced I have an issue with spy cloak and scout gun.
My idea of fair game is, that for any action there should be a chance to have some reaction.
With the current uncloak-backstab combination your chances as victim are quite bad.
With good timing you basically can backstab like you are cloaked.
I think there should be at least 10 seconds time between uncloak and backstab ability.
Same time lock for backstab and cloaking again. Being able to backstab an engineer, going into cloak before the sentry kills you (sentry looses focus) and later sapping the sentry, just is a bit too strong I think. Anyway, easy points, if you invest some time into spying.
Scout gun is simply too powerful combined with his speed. I lost count of the heavies I killed as a scout. I think thats like a joke.
Few times have seen scouts taking out sentries. Now that's really ridiculous.
Surely it's fun to play scout, although not my favorite class.

Anyway, comments are much welcome!
Maybe add YOUR frustrations as well.
Cheers
Magu
 
Rock paper scissors.

Scouts are meant to eat heavies. Spies are meant to give Engineers trouble.


Autobalance can be pretty lame sometimes though.
 
I have issues with your overpowered classes thing. Spies are incredibly easy to kill cloaked because they glow like crazy if they bump into people, and - I see you're playing as a pyro - they burn very prettily. The point is that you should be healthily paranoid the entire game, because that's the whole point of spies.

The scout's scattergun I find to be totally ****ing random. Sometimes the crit is awesome, sometimes there's no crit, sometimes it does a crapload of damage without a crit, sometimes it doesn't. Heavies are easy to kill with a scout simply by dodging around and around and around - if the enemy team doesn't have a good pyro countering (or the heavy is stupid and keeps trying to chaingun you) then of course you're going to slaughter them.

To be honest the only thing I find overpowered atm is the upgraded sentry's knockback. It's quite ridiculous.
 
Agreed on the sentry's knock back, its fkin stupid.

Also, 10 seconds between uncloak? The cloak is half naf, due to the fact you glow when you hit the enemy team, and the fact you can't pass through enemies. I find disguises much better, I'd much rather disguise up to an engy's nest and spam sappers and disguise up to a sniper and stab him. 10 seconds is stupid. We'd all be uncloaking in our own bases.
 
SionST,
I agree simple disguise is better in many ways. but if you manage to avoid bumping into enemies , especially pyros, while cloaked its a powerful attack weapon from behind. timing is everything. And I guess it was only supposed to bring you past enemy lines. I meant 10 seconds between uncloak (to disguise) and ability to backstab.

Jintor , i played all classes a few hours and that 'overpowered' feeling i've had both playing the particular class as well as fighting it. Of course it always depends Who is playing. there a few pro's out there, quite scary.
Anyway, the scout thing, it's the combination of speed, powerful weapon and ability to cap x2.
Most of the final CP (or for instance in hydro) only need a few seconds to capture anyway, with a scout its down to maybe 1-2 secs? No chance to react except you have some defense in place already.

I once managed to outrun a sentry supposed to cover a CP. Every pass i got a bit of damage but filled the capture bar by ca 20%.
Of course fun to do so, and yes they should have had a demo or pyro covering the place...
I think the knock-back is meant to make it more difficult for Uber-attacks?
Anyway, once I've had a beautiful flight because of a knock back.
Jumping to CP C in Gravelpit, sentry was below. WOW.

cheers
magu
 
I've played scout, and the feeling I get could most accurately be described as 'vulnerable'. Scouts are really fast and have good weapons, it's true, but a single hit with most things will kill them quick. (The trick is to track them, or better yet, set them on fire).
 
Jintor said:
I've played scout, and the feeling I get could most accurately be described as 'vulnerable'. Scouts are really fast and have good weapons, it's true, but a single hit with most things will kill them quick. (The trick is to track them, or better yet, set them on fire).
Click to expand...

Thats the trick with just about everything, pyros are damn overpowered. So often, setup is about to finish, we have 2 soldiers, 2 heavies, 2 medics and a demo or something like that, a pyro runs in and burns the lot, he dies but so what, he just got something like 16 points in 5 seconds flat, and an achievement to boot. Thought they nerfed him?
 
Pyro's are overpowered for about until someone gets an upgraded sentry up. The knockback and the incredible lock-on seriously owns them any more than half a minute into the game.

Not to mention the lack of range thing. Fair enough, it's a flamethrower...
 
The fact remains a pyro can run into a group and burn the lot, there will always be a few who die from it, simply because no water or the others take the health packs. Teams with no medics fail here too. A medic can keep a soldier/heavy alive for ages, no class can end that combo alone, then a pyro runs in and burns them both. Medic dies, heavy burns to death with no medic. Overpowered.
 
No. That's using the Pyro the way it's meant to be used. It'd be like calling the Spy's instant-backstab-kill feature "Overpowered" or the Medic's UBARcharge "Overpowered".
 
The game is fine, however some players aren't, I'm sure you'll agree these are annoying...
  • Players pushing you off a teleporter and getting it instead.
  • Scouts who use teleporters when you're some slow class like Heavy or Soldier waiting in line.
  • You're on fire about to die and the medics glued to another class won't let go for 2 seconds just to put you out, even though you're screaming "Medic!" in their face.
  • Players who don't respond when you think they are a spy (e.g., don't shoot back, message, taunt or change weapon just to signal you). So you end up chasing them around - it's like they deliberately do it at times.
  • Engineers/Campers in Sudden Death that don't move an inch.
  • Lots of Engineers on your team but none put teleporters up - it should be a reaction as soon as you start a round.
  • You're an Engineer and die/dead while a enemy Spy saps your Sentry yet teammate Engineers don't move out of their spot to bash it off.
 
I'm afraid these frustrations are all born from playing on public servers. Anyone who's played in clans will tell you how hard it is to get a decent level of teamwork and communication with a team of guys who often practise together and use comms well. On a public server there is little chance - seeing a medic follow a heavy around or changing your class to one that is needed is as good as it gets. I'd argue that even at clan level TF2 doesn't have much depth to it teamplay wise (it's all class selection/swapping), but that's another thread.

Part of the fun is this complete chaos, but it's also why people come to wrong conclusions about class balance. There's no way the scout is overpowered. A decent heavy will chew one up if spotted relatively early. Soldiers, pyros and sentrys can all end your day pretty easily and even a skilled medic can be tough. Try taking down a heavy when he's coupled with a medic, both of them communicating over comms, with likely a few other people around. Hell, try taking out the medic (usually my job in matches) and escaping without getting gibbed.
 
The only one I agree with is the auto-balancing.

That really ticks me off when I spend 80% of the match getting to the top of my team and breaking through enemy defenses only to get swapped over and consequently dominated thanks to my previous efforts. It's the worst kind of irony and there needs to be a better way of handling it.

Spies really aren't an issue either, and I don't see them as overpowered. Skilled spies can be very deadly, but they still have their weaknesses. Just keeping a general level of awareness allows me to spot spies that are decloaking for a backstab, making them instant deadmeat. Suspicious behavior is easily noticed if you keep an eye out for it. And when in doubt, you can just shoot a suspect. I've nabbed so many disguised spies with sticky bombs I place in my base just from playing it safe. After all, no harm done if it's an actual teammate.
 
Thanks, a lot of interesting replies.
Maybe it's just personal feeling about the classes. Funny I've had it both ways playing the
classes and defending myself against. And I've seen too many games where a well mixed (no noob) team got wiped off the map by a scout rush.
Btw best scores I have with demo and soldier, strong classes but fair game.
But I change classes quite often , whatever i think is needed (to get my personal revenge).
Nothing better than to backstab the sniper who just killed your last heavy incarnation.
Spy is not generally overpowered, i just REALLY think it should not be possible to backstab somebody immediately coming out of the cloak. Beside this it seems a spy is more difficult to hurt than in the first days of the game. I remember one hit with the wrench was enough. Now sometimes you unload all your shotgun and the spy is able to escape.

Greetings
magu
 
magu said:
And I've seen too many games where a well mixed (no noob) team got wiped off the map by a scout rush.
Click to expand...

I've yet to see a scout rush get passed a well placed sentry (or two) and a pyro. There's pretty much always a counter that forces balanced teams - the problem comes when people refuse to adjust. Of course, there's always the chance there's no engineer (or he places the sentry poorly) and a scout rush works.
 
I've played some of the classes, but mostly soldier (just enjoy the rocket launcher). Some games the team I'm on gets owned over and over again, while others we rock. I mean, it's great to kick ass, but it makes it more interesting when the game has some give and take.

The worst is when the other team completely overruns yours. I was playing one yesterday where the blue team was taking control points in less than a minute. Then I realized that 3 of my 5 team members were idling...not even participating. That sucked, but what could I do? I quit the game and found another server...had seven kills right off the bat!

TF2 has its shortcomings, but they are outweighed by the fun had in a really good matchup.

My two cents, no change necessary.

Wolfen067
 
alehm tip for gaming with a good team-

If you join a CP map and as soon as the round starts you see your engineers making sentries for the last Control Point (which is still locked) immediatly quit the server and find another one. The team that defends a locked control point is going to lose. You need all teammates going after the point that is UNLOCKED. Elementary, I know, but I see it happen all the time. And I have had better gaming experiences quiting a server a finding another one.


And yes, autobalance alway has been and always will be an issue. It is magnified by TF2 because you rely on teamwork to win.
 
According to the posts i've seen about on the subject, just about every class is 'overpowered', which means of course, that they're not. You're probably just getting consistently bloodied up by the classes that are meant to counter the classes you play.

Though TBH, the Civilian is WAAAAYYY overpowered.
 
Soldiers are overpowered
Medics are overpowered
Engineers are overpowered
Sentries are overpowered
Scouts are overpowered
Pyros are overpowered
Heavies are overpowered
Spies are overpowered
Demomen are overpowered

fin
 
Mutley said:
[*]Lots of Engineers on your team but none put teleporters up - it should be a reaction as soon as you start a round.
[/LIST]
Click to expand...

I don't even bother on maps like Well and Granary, since once I set up an entrance and an exit, the game shifts and the spawns farther up. It's just too much effort with little results imo.
 
Trains are overpowered, one shot one kill and you can't even do any damage to them :S
 
Another one from today:

cp_dustbowl0007.jpg


again at least 2 minutes unchanged like that.
by the time autobalance kicked in this round was basically over.

geetings
magu
 
magu said:
So I'm surprised that the use of team chat or voice is very limited, at least the servers I play (mostly Singapore).
Click to expand...

Just start talking. In my experience the best way to get some proper voice comm is initiating it yourself. For example, at the start of a round state your class and say which point you're going to defend / attack. Or if you're a heavy and there are no medics, just say so and 3 out of 4 times at least one person will spawn as a medic. As other have mentioned, playing with people you know also helps a lot.
 
You know what frustrates me? When nobody on my team checks to see if people are spies or not.
 
If the team is being pretty dumb then I probably will leave. I don't join servers if they are in the teens for player count (20+). Helps with the team balance issues. They don't go away but are minimized with at least 10 on each team.
 
The Shape said:
You know what frustrates me? When nobody on my team checks to see if people are spies or not.
Click to expand...

Then you have to do it yourself...
If I see a lot of spies running around I will spawn as pyro zzzzhhhhhh spies gone.

Anyway it would be nice to have a regular team with proper communication and proper IQ.
Tired of public servers full of 10yo kids.
Although the game is chaotic and fast most of the time, I'm absolutely convinced that team work and communication is the key, much more than individual player strength.
 
I disagree with your entire post.
 
magu said:
Then you have to do it yourself...
If I see a lot of spies running around I will spawn as pyro zzzzhhhhhh spies gone.

Anyway it would be nice to have a regular team with proper communication and proper IQ.
Tired of public servers full of 10yo kids.
Although the game is chaotic and fast most of the time, I'm absolutely convinced that team work and communication is the key, much more than individual player strength.
Click to expand...

Definantly. TF2 is a lot more fun when you're talking with your mates. :D

Or even complete strangers, if you're swapping strategies or even just yelling "The Pyro's a spy!"
 
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but autobalance pisses me off the most because it seems to reward good play with moving you to the losing team. I'm not sure how autobalance works, but it can't be based on points. I'm been in the center of the list point-wise and still been moved. I'm so sick of leading a charge or making a game-changing play for my team only to get moved to the other team and have to deal with the damage I've just done. Especially when there's only a one player gap between team sizes.

Cliff note: Stop sending me to the losing team while I'm kicking ass on the winning one.
 
I'm fairly sure it's the first death after Autobalance comes into effect.
 
I have been auto balanced to the other team even during game play, i.e. i was not dead and respawning anyway.
 
I've been moved to the other team often during gameplay, without dying or respawning at the time :( Annoying when I've spent 20 minutes sapping sentries and stabbing heavy medic combos to find myself on that team. :frown:
 
SionST said:
I've been moved to the other team often during gameplay, without dying or respawning at the time :( Annoying when I've spent 20 minutes sapping sentries and stabbing heavy medic combos to find myself on that team. :frown:
Click to expand...

Exactly.

"Hey, we designed a game that centers around teamwork and forming productive bonds with fellow players.....and then we throw all your accomplishments away when you do so."
 
The main fustration I have is the ub3r paranoid people I seem to come across on every map. :(
 
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