Future of Gaming: Sony's Super Cell

[Sqick]

Sony's Super Cell
JapanInc.com
8-2-4

Sony has thrown nearly 2 billion dollars into a revolutionary processing chip that it hopes will transform the face of home entertainment.

Its first role will be as the central processing unit in the PlayStation3 games console -- a machine that we recently learned is slated for release in early 2006, though Sony is being awfully coy about confirming it. The hugely powerful chip will eventually be fitted into TV sets and a host of other consumer electronics devices.

Ken Kutaragi, the brains behind the PlayStation games consoles, believes that the chip -- codenamed "cell" -- will give future video games machines the power to animate figures as realistically and smoothly as Golem in the Lord of the Rings, or the CGI hero in the recent film version of The Hulk.

The chip, he said, means that within a few years the genres of film and video games will "fused and become indistinguishable."

That strategy is based on trends in the games industry that became startlingly obvious at the recent E3 videogames trade show. Dominating the games market is the US company Electronic Arts -- a company that has achieved its lead by concentrating on generating ultra realistic-looking games based on films and sports. It is also clear that the cell is being groomed for some future era where most homes have broadband internet connections. Its designers believe it will be perfect for managing the sort of vast online role-playing games that are already starting to draw armies of addicts.

But here comes the clever bit. Within the next six months, Sony will be offering video games makers a cell-workstation that will let them start programming software using the new chip. Behind Sony's strategy is the theory that by delivering all that graphics power, the process of animating games characters will be dramatically shortened. Games are far more complicated than they used to be, and anything that reduces the average 3.5-year development time of each game is, commercially, very attractive to the industry.

IBM shares the Sony prediction that the chip could become the start of a revolution that unites the PC, the games console and broadband entertainment-on-demand services -- and puts it all inside your TV. "The PC is no longer the driving force in semiconductor innovation," said IBM technology director John Kelly, "networking and consumer electronics applications are driving the evolution of a new semiconductor industry."

The entire videogame industry has been waiting on tenterhooks for the end of an extended game of "chicken" between Sony and Microsoft, producer of the rival Xbox console. Microsoft attributes the limited success of its first machine to the 18-month headstart it lost to the PlayStation2, and some pundits speculate that the US company will do everything in its power to put its Xbox2 machine on the shelves first. Others believe that both companies see an advantage in holding back a release and then undercutting their rival on price.

But Sony's ambitions for the chip do not stop with the next-generation games console, and the Japanese company has already put its plans for a cell-dominated world into action. In addition to aiming the cell workstation at games programmers, it will also be pushing it towards Hollywood studios and filmmakers everywhere, betting that the future of cinema lies in the increasing use of computer-generated characters and special effects.

Analysts have remarked on the coincidence that Sony is also currently pursuing a possible takeover of US film studio Metro-Goldwyn Meyer, speculating that the Japanese group is engineering a scenario in which it controls both the hardware and content of cell-enabled TVs.

http://www.japaninc.com/newsletters/index.html?list=jin&issue=275


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WOW
Dont know how much of this is true, but sure as hell sounds very interesting for the future of gaming!

peace!

 

[PvtRyan]

Heh... I'm getting a deja-vu here, same thing was said when the PS2 was introduced. It was all so special and magnificent, it would change gaming blabla. Bull was what it was in the end.

Besides, Cell uses multiple smaller cpu's too be so fast, and to me it seems programming is gonna be a pain for it, just like it was for the PS2. There are hardly programs that use dual threads, let alone for the 32 cpu's that Cell was gonna use.
By the time programmers are experienced enough with it to fully use it, others have gained in on Sony. Look at the difference between first gen PS2 games and games like Killzone and GT4.

 

[sHm0zY]

thats nuts

 

[ASnogarD]

I may be way off here but wasn't this cell tech in the PS3 also capable of CPU resource sharing (ie a busy PS3 machine online could search and locate idle online PS3 machines and 'borrow' some CPU time) ?

 

[Kristafon]

if the chip is so poweful and 2 billion has been put into it, do u think it could be one of these processors that use light instead of electricity? now processors have reached the maximum Hz rate they can get before overheating ( has anyone managed 4.0 Ghz yet?) we will need either a new type of cooling sytem or a lower heat processor, ie. using light, which in turn is 100 of times faster, it could be that or perhaps sony are just using marketing crap and are planning to put a 3.5 processor in the ps3 because then they will be so cheap and with no o/s burdening it i dont see why a 3.0+ couldnt do almost film-quality graphics

 

[Razor]

if the chip is so poweful and 2 billion has been put into it, do u think it could be one of these processors that use light instead of electricity? now processors have reached the maximum Hz rate they can get before overheating ( has anyone managed 4.0 Ghz yet?) we will need either a new type of cooling sytem or a lower heat processor, ie. using light, which in turn is 100 of times faster, it could be that or perhaps sony are just using marketing crap and are planning to put a 3.5 processor in the ps3 because then they will be so cheap and with no o/s burdening it i dont see why a 3.0+ couldnt do almost film-quality graphics

The Prescott 3.6ghz processor can be overclocked to 4ghz on air quite easily, i think. So, 4ghz is not a problem. However, in the next couple of years, both Intel and Amd are moving to dual core processors which help increase speed, plus the fact that they are both moving to 64bit as well. The Xbox2 has a triple core chip on it.

 

[Pitbul]

Heh... I'm getting a deja-vu here, same thing was said when the PS2 was introduced. It was all so special and magnificent, it would change gaming blabla. Bull was what it was in the end.

Besides, Cell uses multiple smaller cpu's too be so fast, and to me it seems programming is gonna be a pain for it, just like it was for the PS2. There are hardly programs that use dual threads, let alone for the 32 cpu's that Cell was gonna use.

thats why Sony is issueing Cell based workstations with easy to use middleware/SDK's, also Sony has teamed up with many game developers including Criterion (makers of the famous Renderware) and also the makers of Maya. the orginization is named Collada and a press confrence and unvieling of Collada will take place some time next week. the workstations for Ps3 developement will go out sometime in Q4 and the Ps3 will be shown at E3 05.

also the cell wont use 32 APU's it will use 8 to 16 APU's. but its ok Pvt Ryan, your not all that bright i've seen your post. you never thik clearly thru what your about to say, its not your fault you were born retarded :dork:

 

[Maxi]

The current record is around 5100mhz. And overheating is not the problem, it's that we can't make the transistors smaller, so that means that when cpus get faster, they will get bigger too.

 

[Direwolf]

Yeah, they've begun taking the route of adding more cores. Moore's law hasn't hit its end yet, and I don't see that happening for a while, since they've found ways to overcome every obstacle before.

 

[Pitbul]

Yeah, they've begun taking the route of adding more cores. Moore's law hasn't hit its end yet, and I don't see that happening for a while, since they've found ways to overcome every obstacle before.

Intel themselves said Moore's law will be blonw away within the next 10 years.

 

[Kangy]

It sounds quite nice, but I'm going to take this with a pinch of salt.

The "emotion engine" wasn't quite as fantastic as everyone predicted, and I think this could be taking the same route. I don't like the idea of everything I do being in one machine either.

 

[Pitbul]

actually it was, its 2x times more powerful then the XBox's Intel CPU and less then half the clock speed. the XBox's CPU clocked at 700MHz could barely do 3.2GFLOp/s while the EE clocked at 300MHz could do 6.2GFLOp/s

which is why the XBox has to use those normal map techniques found in Halo 2 and Chornicles of Riddick because it sucks as drawing geometry via CPU that are poly based.

 

[Varg|Hund]

but its ok Pvt Ryan, your not all that bright i've seen your post. you never thik clearly thru what your about to say, its not your fault you were born retarded :dork:

Uncalled for.


So, who thinks we'll have filmlike graphics in HL4, then? :naughty:

 

[Kangy]

actually it was, its 2x times more powerful then the XBox's Intel CPU and less then half the clock speed. the XBox's CPU clocked at 700MHz could barely do 3.2GFLOp/s while the EE clocked at 300MHz could do 6.2GFLOp/s

which is why the XBox has to use those normal map techniques found in Halo 2 and Chornicles of Riddick because it sucks as drawing geometry via CPU that are poly based.

It might be "better" but I can't find a PS2 game that beats the fantastic open air parts of Halo,.

 

[pingu]

I hope consoles dont overtake PC gaming, I love my PC

 

[LordXizor]

Moore's law was originally supposed to expire in 1990, and it is not a law anyway, it is a mathematical model.

 

[Direwolf]

Yeah, but thats what people call it. It's like Murphy's Law.
And 10 years is forever in terms of the technology sector. So far most people's predictions about it have been wrong, but we'll see what happens.

 

[crabcakes66]

It might be "better" but I can't find a PS2 game that beats the fantastic open air parts of Halo,.

Dont turn it into a xbox vs PS2 ...Halo fanboy vs all thread.

 

[PvtRyan]

thats why Sony is issueing Cell based workstations with easy to use middleware/SDK's, also Sony has teamed up with many game developers including Criterion (makers of the famous Renderware) and also the makers of Maya. the orginization is named Collada and a press confrence and unvieling of Collada will take place some time next week. the workstations for Ps3 developement will go out sometime in Q4 and the Ps3 will be shown at E3 05.

also the cell wont use 32 APU's it will use 8 to 16 APU's. but its ok Pvt Ryan, your not all that bright i've seen your post. you never thik clearly thru what your about to say, its not your fault you were born retarded :dork:

Coming from someone who can't type a coherent and grammatically correct sentence, I find that funny and ironic.

Fact is, no matter how many processing units it uses, using all that power effectively, is hard. It's been tried before and failed.
Besides having to efficiently work together, the processors must also be flexible to handle multiple tasks, from sound to graphics.

I'll see how this goes, but it's mainly marketing and a big ass hype. It's always like that, same with the o so special Emotion Engine of the PS2.

 

[staddydaddy]

1.) that guy that called the other guy a retard is a huge doop and should be suspended

2.) what's moore's law

3.) what's this emotion engine on ps2?

 

[Varsity]

Super Cell 2: Gaming Tommorow.

 

[ShadowFox]

I hope consoles dont overtake PC gaming, I love my PC

As always, the new consoles will be faster than PCs for about a year, and then PCs will catch up and overtake them.

 

[Runteh]

Isnt Moore's law based on transistors... hence its a pointless argument. Otherthings will be found and used instead.

 

[PvtRyan]

Yes Moore's law is based around the prediction that the number of transistors in microchips will double every 18 months.
So yes, saying that you're gonna break Moore's law with Cell doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

As always, the new consoles will be faster than PCs for about a year, and then PCs will catch up and overtake them.

Exactly they make consoles to go ahead because they don't get a new console for like 2-3 years so they need to think way ahead. Of course like you said the PC mainstream soon catches up and retakes within those 3 years :bounce: :bounce:

Meh I don't care about that super cell :\ I'll wait until I see some cool footage of it next year at E3 until it becomes gaming future.....

 

[blahblahblah]

I'm a bit skeptical of the cell processor. I could call the cell processor a myth and be perfectly correct. We know nothing about it. Everything we have heard has been pure marketing. We haven't heard performance numbers yet.

I suspect sony is having serious production problems with the cell processor. Every major chip firm (and their respective fabrication plants) have been having problems with chips at or below 65 nm. I think this is why Sony is so hesitant and quiet about its new technology - they don't know if they can pull it off yet.

 

[kidrock450]

I actually have high hopes for these next Gen. consoles?

 

[Diablo2k]

I hope consoles dont overtake PC gaming, I love my PC

It has already taken over PC gaming. Much more games come out for console then for the PC.

 

[Kangy]

Yeah, but The Sims, plus all the expansion packs has probably outsold the 5 top selling games for the PS2 combined.

 

[OCybrManO]

Fact is, no matter how many processing units it uses, using all that power effectively, is hard. It's been tried before and failed.

... and some have succeeded, though not on as small a scale as this "cell" technology is supposed to be. People have built a supercomputer out of 70 PS2's that were modded to run Linux and hooked together to form one giant computer... for less than $50,000 (very cheap for a supercomputer). The only problem is that the PS2 comes with a measly 32MB of RAM per unit. That's a total of only 2.1875GB.

 

[WaryWolf]

Yeah, they've begun taking the route of adding more cores. Moore's law hasn't hit its end yet, and I don't see that happening for a while, since they've found ways to overcome every obstacle before.

while cpu manufacturers have overcome most obstacles before, there is one that will stop them dead in their tracks - the size of the atom. We're down to about 90 nm (nanometres) per transistor in the latest amd chips, which is equivalent to about 1000 atoms per transistor. in 10 years, perhaps, we will be able to make transistors that are made up of 100 atoms, and 10 years after that maybe 50 atoms. but we will reach a point where we won't be able to make transistors any smaller. then we will come to a halt with the development of conventional chips.

 

[Synthaxx R-or]

Just look at it like this.

The difference will be like the final gen PS1 games and the first gen PS2 games. (okay so GT3 is not really a 1st gen game, but it makes comparing easier ).
We'll probably be drooling a lot when we see it .

Also the PC will probably look bad for about 6 months after release, and then it'll be back and badder then ever :E

 

[Direwolf]

Well I wouldn't consider 20 years anytime soon.
I don't think it even bears thinking about right now, or at least no more than idle speculation.

 

[dream431ca]

I hope consoles dont overtake PC gaming, I love my PC

PCs will always be faster than consoles.

 

[Subz]

i hope pc's dont die out. they get the best games. pc has on an average more aaa and aa games than any console.(im going by gamespot scores..they are more console centerd and pc will wins)

 

[Hazar]

ie. using light, which in turn is 100 of times faster,

Light and electricity both travel at light speed.

I'm rather skepticle on this processor, it could be ground breaking and it could be a flop. Just look at the dreamcast.

One other thing, in the first post, someone said that consumer electronics were driving the chip market and not computers anymore. I think that is pure bs: just compare the chip speeds of the two.

 

[OCybrManO]

If you want to play around with the physics system bind a key to "toggle g_dragEntity"... it will lower your weapon (that side-effect can be used to easily prove that the flashlight casts proper shadows by moving the light source away from your head) and let you grab/throw objects with the fire button.

 

[theotherguy]

Light and electricity both travel at light speed.

I'm rather skepticle on this processor, it could be ground breaking and it could be a flop. Just look at the dreamcast.

One other thing, in the first post, someone said that consumer electronics were driving the chip market and not computers anymore. I think that is pure bs: just compare the chip speeds of the two.

true, teh force of electricity travels at light speed, but it is limited by the medium it travels through, light is able to travel much faster through open air because it doesn't have to take as many twists or turns in the medium in which it is travelling. Although I seriously doubt that the processor is a light proccessor though. I heard somewhere that they were planning on a carbon nanotube one however...

 

[OCybrManO]

Wait a minute... how did my post get in this thread? I thought I put it in a Doom 3 thread. I guess it's harder than I thought to keep track of 20 or so pages (in Opera). Oops. Ignore post #37.

 

[Asuka]

As always, the new consoles will be faster than PCs for about a year, and then PCs will catch up and overtake them.

When was this ever true? When x box and ps2 came out consoles were still no where near pc's. console will never be as fast or as powerfull as pc thats the bottom line. Anyway cool info.