Galloway / Hitchens Debate

[Solaris]

Check this out

George Galloway fair owned in that^

Its fun watching both parties personal attacks, although Galloways is the best calling him a slug, who leaves a trail of slime.

Its great, although 2 hours long.

Discuss.

 

[Kmack]

a stunning display of modern politics in all its glory. i wonder if he was using the Bush Earpiece, or was he intelligent enough on his own? i can just see a group of third graders reading him insults :E

 

[Solaris]

Naa they were great.

Hitchens looks like hes about to cry.

His attempt for a minutes silence was pathetic, and Galloway showed him whos boss!

 

[Feath]

Is this going to be interesting to watch or is Galloway just going to use the word imperialist and Israel over and over again?

 

[Solaris]

No its great, he makes some very contervesial statements, and preety much owns.


I <3 George Galloway

 

[Kangy]

Ah, George Galloway. The traitorous scum who captures that small little market of easily led fools without sympathy for even their own troops. I don't agree with the Iraq war, but I agree with Galloway even less. He should have been locked up for treason when he started promoting violence against British troops.

 

[Solaris]

We invaded Iraq violently and illegally, we commit atrocoties, weve killed thousands of civillians, US forces leveled the city of falujah, and masacared its civillian population.

The people have a right to resist, we are an occupying force we should withdraw and let the Iraqis be free.

Democracy cannot happen under an occupation.

 

[Eg.]

We invaded Iraq violently and illegally, we commit atrocoties, weve killed thousands of civillians, US forces leveled the city of falujah, and masacared its civillian population.

The people have a right to resist, we are an occupying force we should withdraw and let the Iraqis be free.

Democracy cannot happen under an occupation.

Yeah, cause Japan, Germany, and god, who else did we control for along time. but anyway, yeah, those nations are despotic hell holes that NEVER have any semblence of a democracy

 

[Solaris]

We didnt invade japan.

Its surrenderd.

 

[little.rebel]

George galloway is good at argueing his case in political fights (although his use of words and political statements accusing imperialism does eventually bore me), and he does expose the usual idiot polititians little lies that they tell so frequently.
But he himself has become an insane mental raving nutcase who rides on a wave of populatiry from a bunch of pro taliban arab imigrants, his cause if it did succeed with all his efforts ammounting to what? A shithole of a country run by tratorous and pro islam crackpots. And he is just one of them, there are lots more and one way or another they need to go before they cause anymore harm.

If only he had used such newly discovered talents to actually realise and work for a positive purpose, like helping sorting out in a decent way, the mess that this county has become and helping argue the man in the streets corner.

But then agin he is an idiot and a fool and a dumbass.

 

[Solaris]

Why. Arab immigrants wtf is that. Pro taliban, PRO TALIBAN? The USA government funded the taliban, THEY ARE PRO TALIBAN, george galloway has always expressed his hatred at the bathist and taliban regimes, the thing is he was doing so while our governments were selling them weapons.

A shithole of a country run by tratorous and pro islam crackpots.

Trautors? Our governments are the trautors lying to the people, and wasting out soldiers LIVES on F****g oil.

If only he had used such newly discovered talents to actually realise and work for a positive purpose, like helping sorting out in a decent way, the mess that this county has become and helping argue the man in the streets corner.

It IS A USEFUL WAY! Owning politicians on International TV is a very effective method, He is on street corners, he holds a session with his consituents every Sunday!

But then agin he is an idiot and a fool and a dumbass.

I beg to differ, hes a great man, and is very inspiring, hes telling the truth, and is a welcome oppersition to the politicians we have in the main stream.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Hated the Bathist regime so much he accepted money from them.

WHAT A HERO!

 

[baxter]

But then agin he is an idiot and a fool and a dumbass.

I agee totally.

Edit... This moron brings shame only anybody who genuinely opposes the war, his pouting and posing is as shameful as his opinions.
BTW I haven't listened to the discussion, I couldn't be bothered

 

[Solaris]

He never took money from the regime, the telegraph said that and he proved them wrong, IN COURT.

Why does he bring shame on us, hes telling the truth about Iraq.

The American government sold weapons too and funded the bathist regime, not Mr. Galloway.

 

[Lemonking]

solaris where are the UFOS?

 

[Solaris]

solaris where are the UFOS?

Grow up.


Comrade, wheres your evidence that he took money from the bathists? Its just blatent lies.

 

[baxter]

"I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability."

I kind of lost the will to listen to this guy after this. I might not support the war but I certainly don't believe in blowing kisses up a tyrants arse.

Not quite sure who he's talking about.

Here's a clue

 

[Solaris]

How about this

George Galloway never said that, he was speaking about the Iraqi people.

 

[baxter]

Of course he was, actually here is the full text.

“Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem.”

http://www.guerrillanews.com/articles/1678/What_s_Left

Like I said "I certainly don't believe in blowing kisses up a tyrants arse" and that includes the picture of Rumsfeld.

seems his words were very specific.

“Your Excellency, … I thought the president would appreciate to know that even today, three years after the war, I still meet families who are calling their newborn sons Saddam.”

 

[Kangy]

He met Saddam like a good friend, at a time when the country was considering war with him. Months later, he's been actively encouraging the enemy to kill our own soldiers. I know the war isn't a good thing, but we cannot back out now, nor is that kind of comment ever acceptable. It is treason, and he should be jailed for it.

 

[Solaris]

What comment, wanting to back out is treason? Way to go freedom of speech.

That is not a source, george galloway never said that, its lies.

He was there to persuade Sadam to allow the weapons inspecters in, so hopefully war would be averted, and 30,000 civillians would not die. No matter what he said its acceptable when your trying to save that many lives.

Again, Galloway was there to stop war, rumsfeld was there to sell Sadam CHEMICAL WEAPONS!!!!!

 

[Eg.]

We didnt invade japan.

Its surrenderd.

we occupied it with a military government, mcauthor, for quite a while

 

[Kangy]

What comment, wanting to back out is treason? Way to go freedom of speech.

No, the comments he made that called for Iraqis to fight and kill our troops in Iraq. That source can probably be verified by others, though. I think you seem to be very good at sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "AHAHA, I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU, LOL!" when someone comes up with something against Galloway, a man who says that the downfall of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe in his life.

 

[baxter]

That is not a source, george galloway never said that, its lies.

Yeah sure it is, try this source then.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/otherparties/story/0,9061,1483783,00.html

Talking of lies here's a gem

“As a matter of fact, I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as [US Secretary of Defence] Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns.” He added, “I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein when British and American governments and businessmen were selling guns and gas.”

Some opponent you was George.

"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem.”

 

[Solaris]

I also make that comment.

I support the Iraqi resistance, and hope the western imperilaslist offensive which began a good while ago is stopped. And is nessacary for a free world.

Look at it this way, if we orderd our troops to go into say Serbia and commit genocide,they were ordered to shoot civillians on site - were talking hypothetically - here, then Im sure you would support the serbian insurgents, or at least I hope you would.

I support the actions the Irish resistence took in 1916 fighting and killing 'our' troops in Irealand, we commited many atrocoties there, and we had no right to do so.

The same situation as hypotheticall described above is whats happening now in Iraq, except on a lesser, scail. Our troops are not shooting civillians, and the British soldiers are generally tryng to minimalise civillian casualties. However in supporting the Americans with there masacare in fallujah and across Iraq of civillians, the people have a right to resist.

The coalition troops, are not targetting civillians, but are not going out of there way to prevent colateral damage.

We are a violent and illgal occupier and we should withdraw, if we dont we become a legitimate target. The people resoncable for this is out government for putting our troops in this position, it makes me very angry how theve thrown away the lives of out people like this, its a truely unforgiveable offense.

What I want most of all is our troops to withdraw, and Im sure Mr. Galloway does to.

 

[Solaris]

Yeah sure it is, try this source then.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/otherparties/story/0,9061,1483783,00.html

Talking of lies here's a gem

“As a matter of fact, I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as [US Secretary of Defence] Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns.” He added, “I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein when British and American governments and businessmen were selling guns and gas.”

Some opponent you was George.

"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem.”

Baxter the source for that article is the times, not very reliable imo.

The times once called Nelson Mandela a terrorist who should be hanged, its a pile of crap, and Id like a first hand source if you will.

 

[Kangy]

I also make that comment.

I support the Iraqi resistance, and hope the western imperilaslist offensive which began a good while ago is stopped. And is nessacary for a free world.

Look at it this way, if we orderd our troops to go into say Serbia and commit genocide,they were ordered to shoot civillians on site - were talking hypothetically - here, then Im sure you would support the serbian insurgents, or at least I hope you would.

I support the actions the Irish resistence took in 1916 fighting and killing 'our' troops in Irealand, we commited many atrocoties there, and we had no right to do so.

They're all completely different situations. Genocide in Serbia is in no way related to Iraq. The key is in the way you described it. Serbia would be genocide. And no, I still wouldn't support the murder of our troops. I'd protest damned hard to get it stopped though, as I'm sure most people in this country would.

Again, the Irish Independance War is completely different. If anything, it's just showing up your complete ignorance.

 

[Solaris]

No, the conept is the same.

Our troops are killing the civillians of another country, for our imperilist desires.

If France occupied us would you support us shooting French troops?

 

[baxter]

"Your excellency, Mr President, I greet you in the name of the many thousands of people in Britain who stood against the tide and opposed the war and aggression against Iraq and continue to oppose the war by economic means, which is aimed to strangle the life out of the great people of Iraq ... I greet you too in the name of the Palestinian people ... I thought the president would appreciate to know that even today, three years after the war, I still meet families who are calling their newborn sons Saddam. Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem"

So Galloway never actually said this, every Bristish newpaper and news channel got it wrong ?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...tnG=Google+Search&meta=cr=countryUK|countryGB

 

[Solaris]

Not every paper has reported that, give me a proper souce not a google search.

 

[Kangy]

No, the conept is the same.

Our troops are killing the civillians of another country, for our imperilist desires.

If France occupied us would you support us shooting French troops?

*sigh*

You obviously know nothing about how Ireland achieved independance, or your view is completely skewered. I won't even bother going there.

And if France occupied us, I think it would be appropriate for us to shoot French troops. Well, unless they were trying to work to fix the problems and get out of there as soon as possible anyway, then I damned well wouldn't.

If France occpied us today, it'd be completely different to us occupying Iraq. For a start, our government hasn't commited genocide, and it isn't ruled by a dictator.

 

[Solaris]

Kangy, Im irish, and my great uncle was in the IRA, he blew himself up actually.

Anyway, our troops are a legitimate target to the insurgents.

If a country invaded yours and killed your civillians youd want to resist.

 

[baxter]

Not every paper has reported that, give me a proper souce not a google search.

No, This as gone as far as it is going, your point blank refusal to accept anything close to the truth over this guy really has ground any sort of debate with you to an end.
To simply align yourself with this idiot because he goes round spouting antiwar rhetoric is silly.
I object to this war but he does not speak for me nor does he represent me.

 

[Kangy]

Kangy, Im irish, and my great uncle was in the IRA, he blew himself up actually.

Interesting. So surely you'll know that unlike the Iraqi government, they specifically declared independance after years of occupation? It's nothing like Iraq, who's government have specifically asked American forces to help them get things sorted out.

I think it's a matter of having some respect and dignity, to be honest. I think the moment you say that you'd rather have a soldier of your own country be killed than the other person who's trying to kill him in a premeditated attack by the other person, you no longer really deserve to be living in that country.

 

[Eg.]

you see hes not, hes saying that about america, apparently a nation he has no love for. What hes saying is, "as long as its not my shit, its not good for the world"

 

[SAJ]

Talking of lies here's a gem

“As a matter of fact, I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as [US Secretary of Defence] Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns.” He added, “I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein when British and American governments and businessmen were selling guns and gas.”

Which part of that is a lie exactly?

 

[baxter]

This part "I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein "

"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem

Edit...Incidentally Galloway was so proud of this meeting he lied and denied it

Galloway first denied meeting Saddam Hussein, saying. "I had no opportunity because we were in a group of about fifty people. I didn't actually speak to him face to face." (Daily Record, 21st January). When TV pictures showed the opposite was true Galloway adopted the ‘I-was-speaking-to-the-Iraqi-people explanation

 

[SAJ]

This part "I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein "

"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem

Well I see nothing that constitutes his stated position re:Saddam , as a lie. If you have anything more to add from that quote , please share.

Galloway first denied meeting Saddam Hussein, saying. "I had no opportunity because we were in a group of about fifty people. I didn't actually speak to him face to face." (Daily Record, 21st January). When TV pictures showed the opposite was true Galloway adopted the ‘I-was-speaking-to-the-Iraqi-people explanation

Source please, as its not clear what year you are referring to.
Also , as GG has been to Iraq on many occasions , it wouldnt be beyond most journalists to "switch and bait" the responses and visits. Im not claiming that is what happened, I am however deeply sceptical about journalists and a figure whom it is clearly permissable to fling s*** at.

EDIT: I hope the daily record article was from jan 21 of `04 or earlier. "I did not salute Saddam, I saluted the Iraqi people, Galloway tells libel trial" is the headline from a times article on 16 nov `04 :http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1360810,00.html
A search at the daily record gets no results as far as I can tell.

 

[baxter]

I am however deeply sceptical about journalists and a figure whom it is clearly permissable to fling s*** at.

Excuse me but what are you talking about?
He visited Iraq twice, once in 1994 and once in 2002.
In 1994 he betrayed totally the people of Iraq by sympathising and cuddling up to a mass murderer and letting him know what a good egg he was.
The very people that he now proudly boasts he tried to save by sucking up to a homicidal maniac.

I will post this for the last time

"Your excellency, Mr President, I greet you in the name of the many thousands of people in Britain who stood against the tide and opposed the war and aggression against Iraq and continue to oppose the war by economic means, which is aimed to strangle the life out of the great people of Iraq ... I greet you too in the name of the Palestinian people ... I thought the president would appreciate to know that even today, three years after the war, I still meet families who are calling their newborn sons Saddam. Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem"

If you feel that Galloway is unjustly victimised, unfairly treated and is an all round good egg, fine.
Galloway does not represent the antiwar movement; Galloway represents himself, jumping on whatever popular bandwagon is available.

Edit try this link http://www.labourfriendsofiraq.org.uk/archives/000537.html

 

[SAJ]

Actually , GG went to Iraq a number of times after the gulf war, the two visits that get mentioned are the two times he met Saddam.
So what I was suggesting was that it would possible to get a quote saying "I didn't actually speak to him face to face." (referring to another trip to iraq).

The man is no Nelson Mandela, but he was vocal and active in campaigning against sanctions on Iraq -which claimed the lives of half a million people- well before Blair was even elected.
At the end of the day , hes just a politicion but as far as bandwagons go, the mans been driving it for over a decade.