Gang members get training and experience in US Military

[Raziaar]

Well, this is amazing. I don't think I've ever stopped and thought before how gang members could enter the military and get training from Uncle Sam. I am watching Gangland right now, "Basic Training" episode and it covers this subject.

It seems that it's a growing problem, and the US Military is knowingly training gang members, going by the policy that they have to be passive gang members in their unit, but they still accept them. The gang members can take this exceptional training from the military and they actually apply the knowledge learned back on the streets.

When I think gang members, I think of uncivilized thugs who simply use brute force, but the reality it seems, and the FBI and US Military are aware of the problem is that gang members are actually getting training in the military and on the field(in Iraq) and using that knowledge back in their gang neighborhoods and even teaching it to their other gang members.

Quite scary indeed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/28/eveningnews/main3107316.shtml

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/gangs_2.htm

http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/1995/072795cpblmil.html

Gang members have also been joining and organizing within the U.S. military and learning military skills in Iraq, a phenomenon an FBI report calls "a threat to law enforcement and national security."

Everything from skin head white supremacists, black gangs, latino gangs and more.

What do you think about this? The FBI has reported that gang members in the military is on the rise, and they are recruiting even once they have joined. They say the number of gang members is increasing quite a bit.

 

[Gormanmod]

OH SHIT-

I mean really, what else can be said. Well, you teach a man to fish...

Only benefit would be to change their morals and then fix them. Speaking from experience in these neighborhoods where a high school student is killed once a year on average, I'd say the best way to change them would be a "soldier on every street" policy. Basically, you fight fire with fire. Make sure the soldiers are not from gang neighborhoods, or have a morality test of some sort, and then put one on every block. Bit police state yea, but how else would we force civil actions?


Here in Staten Island, it's the "Clifton gangs"

 

[Nemesis6]

Ah yeah, there was quite a bit of a stir - Soldiers in Iraq were finding their walls etc spray-painted with the text "Vice lordz", that was the first sign of this problem if I remember correctly.

 

[Raziaar]

Ah yeah, there was quite a bit of a stir - Soldiers in Iraq were finding their walls etc spray-painted with the text "Vice lordz", that was the first sign of this problem if I remember correctly.

Vice Lords, MS-13... Nazi symbols... all of them were found spray painted. It's scary really. These people are supposed to be representing us abroad, and they can be racist or just supremely violent and you never know what they might do.

 

[Gormanmod]

lowering standards is what's causing it.

In the words of my dad.

"Now a days, to pass the visual test, the doctor just says, 'put your face here, 1, 2, ok, you pass'"

 

[Raziaar]

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_gangmembership_071210w/

Membership in a criminal street gang must be included on the list of prohibited activities for service members, according to a provision in the 2008 defense authorization bill.

The provision directs the defense secretary to revise one of the department?s directives to disallow gang membership.

Directive 1325.6 already bans service members from participating in groups that promote supremacist causes, attempt to create illegal discrimination, advocate the use of force or violence, or engage in efforts to deprive others of their civil rights.

In recent years, analysts have said there is a growing gang problem in the military. A Jan. 12 FBI report said gang-related activity in the military is increasing and poses a threat to law enforcement officials and national security.

Currently, gang affiliation alone doesn?t prevent a person from serving in the Army, officials have said. But if an applicant also has a criminal record, that will be considered before he is allowed into the Army.

 

[Gormanmod]

here we have a sad balancing act. people need privacy of their past, but not knowing that past can cause bad consequences.

 

[Pesmerga]

I'd say the best way to change them would be a "soldier on every street" policy. Basically, you fight fire with fire.

Wow that's probably the stupidest thing anyone has ever said on these forums.

lowering standards is what's causing it.

The military has actually raised its standards since the days of WW2. You can no longer join the Army without a highschool diploma or GED. The Airforce and Navy have even tighter requirements (like, passing an ASVAB test)

 

[Raziaar]

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,125220,00.html

WASHINGTON - More recruits with criminal records, including felony convictions, are being allowed to join the U.S. Army and Marine Corps, as the armed services cope with a dwindling pool of volunteers during wartime.

The military routinely grants waivers to take in recruits who have criminal records, medical problems or low aptitude scores that would otherwise disqualify them from service. Most are moral waivers, which include some felonies, misdemeanors, and traffic and drug offenses.

Defense Department statistics show that the number of Army and Marine recruits needing waivers for felonies and serious misdemeanors, including minor drug offenses, has grown since 2003. Some recruits may get more than one waiver.

The Army granted more than double the number of waivers for felonies and misdemeanors in 2006 than in 2003.

The number of felony waivers granted by the Army grew from 411 in 2003 to 901 in 2006, according to the Pentagon, or about one in 10 of the moral waivers approved that year. Other misdemeanors - from petty theft or writing a bad check to some assaults - jumped from about 2,700 to more than 6,000 in 2006, representing more than three-quarters of moral waivers granted by the Army.

Army and Defense Department officials defended the waiver program as a way to admit young people who had made a mistake but overcome past behavior.

And more of course.

 

[Gormanmod]

double think, lol.

 

[Raziaar]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/01/ING42LCIGK1.DTL

Law enforcement officials report that the military is now "allowing more applicants with gang tattoos," the Chicago Sun-Times reports, "because they are under the gun to keep enlistment up." They also note that "gang activity maybe rising among soldiers." The paper was provided with "photos of military buildings and equipment in Iraq that were vandalized with graffiti of gangs based in Chicago, Los Angeles and other cities."

Last month, the Sun-Times reported that a gang member facing federal charges of murder and robbery enlisted in the Marine Corps "while he was free on bond -- and was preparing to ship out to boot camp when Marine officials recently discovered he was under indictment." While this recruit was eventually booted from the Corps, a Milwaukee police detective and Army veteran, who serves on the federal drug and gang task force that arrested the would-be Marine, noted that other "gang-bangers are going over to Iraq and sending weapons back ... gang members are getting access to military training and weapons."

Earlier this year, it was reported that an expected transfer of 10,000 to 20,000 troops to Fort Bliss, Texas, caused FBI and local law enforcement to fear a turf war between "members of the FolkNation gang ... (and) a criminal group that is already well-established in the area, Barrio Azteca." The New York Sun wrote that, according to one FBI agent, "FolkNation, which was founded in Chicago and includes several branches using the name Gangster Disciples, has gained a foothold in the Army."

With a growing majority of Americans opposed to the war in Iraq and even ardent hawks refusing to enlist in droves, new policies creating a lower-quality officer corps and the Pentagon pulling out ever more stops and sinking to new lows to recruit and train troops, a new all-volunteer generation of UUUU's may emerge -- the underachieving, unable, unexceptional, unintelligent, unsound, unhinged, unacceptable, unhealthy, undesirable, unloved and uncivil -- all led by the unqualified, doing the unnecessary for the ungrateful.

 

[Krynn72]

Havent seen many of those videos of our soldiers tormenting iraqi kids or read any of the torture accusations? When hasnt the military been full of psychopaths?

 

[Raziaar]

Havent seen many of those videos of our soldiers tormenting iraqi kids or read any of the torture accusations? When hasnt the military been full of psychopaths?

Yeah but in most of those cases it probably hasn't been the case that gang members were involved. This thread is about gang members gaining admittance into the US military and keeping loyalty to their gangs which translates in professionally trained gang members who pass on their experience to their brothers back on the streets.

 

[Ennui]

So what? We're teaching them to kill people... obviously that has some negative impact on society. Enormous surprise there.

 

[Pesmerga]

Maybe with enough military training gang members will learn to not target civilians.

 

[Raziaar]

So what? We're teaching them to kill people... obviously that has some negative impact on society. Enormous surprise there.

Yeah but see the problem is the military knowingly accepts them. There are laws trying to be passed to ban this activity, but as of now, known gang members are allowed admittance into the military.

Military personnel after serving have even killed police officers and citizens using the training they have gathered.

I mean, this wouldn't be such an issue if it was completely unknown that these were gang members with ties to gangs, but this is known and they're out there. Some have even professed to have recruited others into their lifestyle during active military service.

 

[Gormanmod]

no. That's a paradox. Gangs define civilian targets.

 

[Pesmerga]

no. That's a paradox. Gangs define civilian targets.

Man, what? First off, it's only a paradox in the loosest definition possible. Second, gangs define civilian targets? So they get together on Sunday mornings and fax Webster their definition of "civilian"?

Perhaps you meant to say "Targeting civilians is a common characteristic among gangs"? Sure, maybe. But they only do this to garner reputation through fear to gain power in the community. Gangs, generally, commit crime to get money. They sell drugs, recruit new members, operate within the community to try and create a rot that grows from inside so they can organize more freely.

"Killing civvies is what gangs are all about" is a pretty stupid thing to think. What I implied is that by being trained by the military in the fields of discipline, chain of command, communication, information gathering, and fire arm practice, gangs will become more professional and, while probably being more of a pestilence to the city itself, create less collateral damage.

 

[Gormanmod]

Ok, bad wording. gangs fight other gangs, and often civilians get in the way.

To be honest, gangs alone should be a very hard offense. And cops should be able to arrest on sight a group known to be a gang. Don't wait for them to act, get them now.

 

[Pesmerga]

Don't wait for them to act, get them now.

Here in modern western civilization, we have this little thing called due process and trial by jury. Hey, let's arrest teenagers because teenagers smoke weed and have underage sex, right? No.

Being in a gang is not illegal (unless you're conspiring to commit a felony). Committing a crime is illegal. Gang members are treated by the law the same as anyone else, and should be.

As for the topic at hand... I'm not really convinced if the military should reject recruits with criminal records. Sure there's obviously people bringing back military training to commit crime, but the number is so low that I doubt it'll grow into a serious social problem.

Edit - But I take back my suggestion that military training will create more professional gangsters. It'll probably just create better shots.

 

[Raziaar]

Ahhh brilliant. Check it out before it is taken down. The entire episode on youtube. It's very compelling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji4NlO09JMo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-k5cD2zblk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUN1Pml5wNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDt9YLunqvk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TGi_DzRDxk

 

[Gormanmod]

Sorry pesmerga, I'm a little bit Stalinist on this issue. For the most part I accept all and like freedom, but when it comes to people who claim "turf" and think they can own sections of cities, I'm completely intolerant of it. i don't care. You do graffiti, hit stores for money, etc, you screw with the wrong guy. Once a member of a gang does something bad, they all should be arrested and profiled. The ones who seem safe, let go and keep a watch on, the ones who do illegal activity, 20 years minimum. Sorry to be so evil and unjust on this, but I'm a first had witness of the effects on the community that gangs do.

 

[Pesmerga]

Aww, let's excuse a police state ideology because someone's neighbor's house was spray painted.

lul

I have no patience for useless people.

 

[Gormanmod]

no. many of my friend have been jumped by gang members. Other's i don't know, but knew people who knew have been killed.

 

[theotherguy]

Sorry pesmerga, I'm a little bit Stalinist on this issue. For the most part I accept all and like freedom, but when it comes to people who claim "turf" and think they can own sections of cities, I'm completely intolerant of it. i don't care. You do graffiti, hit stores for money, etc, you screw with the wrong guy. Once a member of a gang does something bad, they all should be arrested and profiled. The ones who seem safe, let go and keep a watch on, the ones who do illegal activity, 20 years minimum. Sorry to be so evil and unjust on this, but I'm a first had witness of the effects on the community that gangs do.

Read the US constitution. That sort of law has been illegal since the 1780's. You can't simply convict an entire group of people based on their belonging to that group. You can convict them based on being at a crime scene, conspiring to commit a crime, or being caught committing a crime, but not simply arrest everyone suspected of being in a gang, or any other group for that matter.

You know who tried that once? Hitler. He arrested first everyone in communist and anarchist street gangs, then the homosexuals and disabled, then the gypsies, then the Jews. You can't just arrest a group of people simply for being in a group. That gives the state far too much political power for arresting people they simply don't like. The founding fathers knew that in the 1780's, and most people would agree with that today.

 

[theotherguy]

no. many of my friend have been jumped by gang members. Other's i don't know, but knew people who knew have been killed.

Okay, so arrest the gang members who jumped him, and arrest the alleged murderers. But you simply can't arrest a bunch of people just because they belong to a group.

 

[Gormanmod]

I know, I happily say I'm very radical and evil on this situation. maybe Gangs aren't as bad in your neighborhood as they are here in New York. But here in New York, it's bad. it's not just spray painting crap. it's blatant murder and disregard for society's members. As I said, On average, 1-2 students are killed a year here in Staten Island. One year it was 4. Driving by the neighborhoods where this happens, you can tell who does it. Maybe you have the word arrest confused also. Arrest doesn't mean jail, it means questioning and profiling.

 

[theotherguy]

I know, I happily say I'm very radical and evil on this situation. maybe Gangs aren't as bad in your neighborhood as they are here in New York. But here in New York, it's bad. it's not just spray painting crap. it's blatant murder and disregard for society's members. As I said, On average, 1-2 students are killed a year here in Staten Island. One year it was 4. Driving by the neighborhoods where this happens, you can tell who does it. Maybe you have the word arrest confused also. Arrest doesn't mean jail, it means questioning and profiling.

I know what arrest is. You can arrest people for being suspects at a crime scene, not for belonging to a group. Look, if you made it legal to arrest gangs, then you'd have to define "gang". Such a definition would have to be so loose that it would be easy for the government to arrest political associations, civil rights groups, even whole classes and ethnicities of people. You can't simply arrest someone for having an arbitrary label attached to them. It is unconstitutional and should remain so.

 

[Gormanmod]

Gang's are self-pronounced. You don't have to define if the people openly admit and wear it on tattoos and broadcast their hate all over the place.

Look, I know it's evil, but when it gets as bad as it is here, radical actions must be done. If you have heartburn and keep tanking some calcium every hour, and it just gets worst, do you keep doing the same thing over again? No, you bring out the big guns. For heartburn it's more calcium or a medicine. For street wars, it's force of will and brute counterforce.

Then again, we can go back to my first point of having a soldier on every street corner in the worst areas. All those troops in Germany have nothing better to do.

 

[Raziaar]

Shut up guys... watch the episode.

:dork:

I mean

:afro:

I mean

:hmph: <--- skin head

I mean

:farmer:

I mean

:sniper:

Yeah there we go. Just give him some gang symbols and he's good to go. He's already got his stolen military issue m60

 

[Gormanmod]

hur? wa?

 

[Raptor_Jesus]

Maybe with enough military training gang members will learn to not target civilians.

if they teach them to hold a gun straight.

 

[Krynn72]

Maybe with enough military training gang members will learn to not target civilians.

I lol'd because the military is a bad teacher of this concept.

 

[Pesmerga]

I lol'd because the military is a bad teacher of this concept.

Because you've been to basic, trained in live fire scenarios, and just done a whole lot of that military stuff, right? One of the main doctrines of battle in the US military is to avoid collateral damage.

Oh yeah, here come the Iraq civilian death statistics. Most caused by bombing, not by infantry.

 

[Acepilotf14]

I watched that a few days ago. It was really interesting..

 

[K e r b e r o s]

More recruits with criminal records, including felony convictions, are being allowed to join the U.S. Army and Marine Corps, as the armed services cope with a dwindling pool of volunteers during wartime.

The military routinely grants waivers to take in recruits who have criminal records, medical problems or low aptitude scores that would otherwise disqualify them from service.

And this is why I hate our military.