Google censors itself for China

swiss

swiss

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This has been on the news everywhere.
Basically google has opened up www.google.cn for the Chinese market, but certain search results will be censored; because the government is blocking controversial infomation from the public.
These subjects include Tiananmen square, Taiwan and Democracy.

I think it is a disgrace that google abandones its morals, in exchange for profit. Google's mission of freedom of infomation has been thrown out the window.

For further info go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4645596.stm

I
 
Since its a HUGE market, I am not really surprised at all that they will do whatever it takes to get in it. Money makes the world go around, like it or not. Besides, just because we believe things to be right doesn't mean everyone else does. The Chinese live there and they live with that sort of (to us, ridiculous) censorship everyday, so its really nothing new. They are a dictatorial one-party Communist state and have been for a while now, so its going to be a bit difficult to enact change.

However, evidence of change is there in the increased freedom of intellectual thought (in non-political arenas of course), increased trade relationships with other nations (like improving Africa's infrastructure in exchange for oil), increased involvement in peace talks with other nations re: other problem states (like N. Korea), decreased propaganda, etc. So things are changing, if very slowly. Hopefully Google, however censored, will open the people of the PRC to new ways of looking at things.
 
I cant belive they are trying to lie to there own people. :O
 
Spicy Tuna said:
I cant belive they are trying to lie to there own people. :O
Click to expand...

Every country does that..look at Canada for example. The Prime Minister says "oh will do all these things to make the country better." 13 years later, not even started.
 
Originally Posted by Spicy Tuna
I cant belive they are trying to lie to there own people.
Click to expand...

Naaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive.
 
Not a surprise.

China's government is horrible. If it participated in something like the holocaust, it would seek to block something out like that too.

It obviously doesn't want people to understand or be aware about the bad things the government does, including the plight of Taiwan.

I'm sure they've already gone through the process of burning all related books in libraries too.


At least here in the united states our media reports on everything, no matter if its sometimes misguided or incorrect, at least they do it. Freedom of internet usage here too, except for bad things like child porn, etc.
 
Raziaar said:
It obviously doesn't want people to understand or be aware about the bad things the government does,
Click to expand...
oh and you mean if they don't filter some links, people would know every bad thing that the government does?
 
jerkasaur said:
oh and you mean if they don't filter some links, people would know every bad thing that the government does?
Click to expand...

No. Did I say anything like that? I said they're working towards eliminating people the opportunity to discover these things about their government. The chinese government wants to corral the noble chinese people around like sheep.
 
well, what i know is that china has the population of more than 1.5 billion and if the government wanted to prepare just one peice of bread for them everyday, it would be like, 1.5 billion peices of bread... everyday. i'm pretty sure china knows what it's doing... i hope you got the msg from what i said...
 
jerkasaur said:
well, what i know is that china has the population of more than 1.5 billion and if the government wanted to prepare just one peice of bread for them, it would be like, 1.5 billion peices of bread... i'm pretty sure china knows what it's doing... i hope you got the msg from what i said...
Click to expand...

What "I" am saying... is that if they keep this up, the way they're going... the ONLY way the chinese people who grow up in future generations are going to know whats going on, is by word of mouth from their elders, when their sources of reliable world news especially ones pertaining specifically to things like Taiwan, the squire, are vanishing.
 
I ment what Raziaar said, atleast in the western world you can say what you want/find the truth yourself.
 
What are you trying to say, milkman?
 
Im trying to say the originator of this thread was decieved by a faulty source I guess lol. Dont get me wrong BBC is usually the best source but ummm....they were wrong in this case...or exagerated.

Click the links, I see no censorship at all.
 
Probably only filters it out if you have a Chinese IP address.

Or something.
 
China is a cash farm. Or maybe a gold farm. Or maybe full of gold farmers.

Maybe.
 
Curse you google + china.

Milkman - that's odd but like someone said, maybe it doesn't work if you don't live in China. :O
 
Beerdude26 said:
LOL! You're kidding right?
Please tell me you're kidding D:
Click to expand...

Honestly, it said that if you search for democracy on google.cn then it will censor any results that would be critical of China's "version" of "democracy".
 
Milkman I dont think the BBC and all other news organisations are wrong. Maybe it only censors those in china,as diluted said.
 
swiss said:
Milkman I dont think the BBC and all other news organisations are wrong. Maybe it only censors those in china,as diluted said.
Click to expand...

That must be the case, I've read the same story on several sites. Also, I tried putting 'democracy' into google.cn and although it did get plenty of hits, the actual word 'democracy' was highlighted in red, so im sure that has something to do with it.
 
Lol because thats the word you searched...but Im sure your right that it only works on Chinese IP's. But even regular google highlets the word you searched.
 
The pages would be censored anyway without google, and at least google will tell them that the material they are trying to access has been censored, rather than the standard 404 error.

People in China know how to use proxies too.

The information control at this stage in China's development is about stability. It's controversial yes, but trying to focus 1.4 billion people into contributing to a country is no easy task, especially when most of them are poor farmers in the countryside. The problem the current Chinese government has now is with corruption and party members who think they are somehow above the law. New measures are being brought in to remind them that they are supposed to be servants of the people.

Once people are affluent enough, then they will demand their freedom of speech and it will come. There's already some progress in liberalisation. Freedom of speech is worthless if you're starving. It's a very complicated country, I'm no advocate of the Communist party, but without some sort of unity, China would be seperated states dominated by Warlords and bandits.

I'm more worried about my own country becoming a police state in the future.
 
Freedom of speech is worthless if you're starving.
Click to expand...

I think I said that once.

Who the **** gives a **** about 'democracy' when you have no dinner.
 
15357 said:
I think I said that once.

Who the **** gives a **** about 'democracy' when you have no dinner.
Click to expand...
Yes you did.

Altough democracy can end you starving, but revoulition is always the best way.
 
google_china.gif


But seriously folks...
Solaris said:
Altough democracy can end you starving, but revoulition is always the best way.
Click to expand...
You do realise that that's absolute nonsnse, don't you?
What about Pinochet's revolution in Chile in 1973, over-throwing the democratically-elected Socialist government of Allende?
Oh, ok technically it was a coup, but it was a violent over-throwing of a country's government resulting in a dictatorship. Sounds like a revolution to me.

Or perhaps the Taliban's seizure of power was "the best way" I presume?
Or maybe the German revolution that paved the way for the Nazis?
There are hundreds of examples throughout history, Solaris, that prove you absolutely wrong. May I suggest that, in the future, you consider them before making such sweeping statements for the sheer hell of it. But like I say, it's just a suggestion.
 
Progressive and calculated changes are much better than the bloodshed of revolution. Revolution may be necessary when people are starving, but when people get stable and safe lives, they don't want revolution.

Advocates of revolution are no better than those in the pro-war camp.
 
jerkasaur said:
that could happen anywhere if you truly try finding the truth...
Click to expand...





in China they can arrest and shoot you for no real reason so much for searching for the truth.
EDIT:Solaris dont try to be a Bolschewist.




:dozey:
 
People are saying "what does democracy matter, when your starving" - heres how.

In china loads of people are starving/ in poverty, but there is also a one - party state and restricted freedom of speech. In order for people to NOT starve, they must have the ability to vote out the bad government and criticize its policies. When there is real democracy the government must listen to the public - or be voted out.

Therefore even when your starving in china; democracy does still matter. At the moment people are in poverty and what can they do about it?
 
I'm glad Mark Fiore shares the same stance on the situation as I do.
Click on iRepress
Way to sink to a whole new low google. I'm taking my pron searches to Yahoo now, thank you very much.
 
swiss said:
People are saying "what does democracy matter, when your starving" - heres how.

In china loads of people are starving/ in poverty, but there is also a one - party state and restricted freedom of speech. In order for people to NOT starve, they must have the ability to vote out the bad government and criticize its policies. When there is real democracy the government must listen to the public - or be voted out.

Therefore even when your starving in china; democracy does still matter. At the moment people are in poverty and what can they do about it?
Click to expand...

But in turn that might destabilize the goverment and destroy the foundations of society. Social order wouldn't be there anymore. You wouldn't be safe.

Safety > Permitivness
 
Yes the current society in China is relatively stable. If you suddenly have a revolution and introduce democracy overnight everything will be unstable, there will be civil war for decades, and China would probably spilt into warring states. Millions would die.
The best way forwards is to change the laws progressively. Not just jump into the deep water, because the Americans think that's what's best. Democracy will come, just wait for the older generations to die off first.

Anyway, you really think you have freedom of speech?

If you threaten the current system of government, eg "I hate Tony Blair. 11am tomorrow, we'll overthrow the government" , you'll at least be investigated, probably interrogated and locked up.
You say "I have a bomb in my briefcase" as a joke at the airport, you'll be interrogated throughly.
Same in China.

In China if you granted freedom of speech, the first people to use this right would be the local province governments, who would probably use it to wrestle power from the central government. The only power the central government has over the provincial governments is the Red Army.

Thing is, in our 1st world countries, our freedom of speech is not likely to threaten the government, because the serfs aren't going to rush in from the countryside and overthrow the leadership. But in 3rd world countries, that is likely to happen.
It might be a firm grip on power yes, but at least society is relatively stable and people's living conditions are improving immensely. They've come a long way, but still have a long way to go. Upsetting the stability won't solve anything.

What I'm trying to say is, it's easy to be critical, but proposing a good solution is hard.
The Chinese people are getting a higher and higher quality of life, and they will continue to do so, all forecasts indicate. They will demand their rights one day, and the government will have to obey them.
 
The government in China has a firm grip on power...and society is stable and improving...yes just like all other socialist powers of the past ( ie Soviet Union);
what ever happened to liberal ideology dude?

I dont care if I have a stable living (ie boring job, with apartment identical to everyone else); i want the ability to say "**** you" to the government without being chucked into prison for some trumped up charge.

I know in the UK things arent perfect especially with anti terror legislation. But you see free press all the time at work, and every person has the right to create their own party and peacefully protest outside government offices.
 
The Chinese government are all too aware of the history of peasant revolts. They've got 100s of millions of peasants in the countryside. If they are unhappy, they will overthrow the government, so the current government is trying to keep them happy.

There is some slow progress with freedom of press. It is possible to get BBC and CNN there, but it's very expensive.
And there's also the fear of not being dominated by foreign powers ever again. Remember the European powers pretty much walked all over China, and then the Japanese committed atrocities there in WW2.

China is not very socialist, it is highly capitalist. They've studied American and European models, and emulate them according to their needs. They see how well off Americans and Europeans are, they aspire to that kind of life too. A far cry from the cultural revolution days.
They've gone for economic liberalisation, I can see political liberalisation coming in the not too far away future. But that will come when the people are affluent, powerful and educated enough to demand it.
And people can be critical of the government there, and as long as they don't threaten the government's position.
Corruption is quite commonplace there, that's another challenge to be faced. They have to tackle the internal corruption before they can make promises of reform. Trouble they have now is that party members don't listen to the central government, they do their own thing, without much regard for the law.

The only way the central government can keep them in line ultimately is by control of the army, they don't have the developed legal structure that we have (although they are building this up too). Rome wasn't built in a day... or in this case, China.

Here's an article describing just some of the complications there are in Chinese politics:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4620450.stm
 
Im sure a lot of what you say is true, but I personally think you take too much of an appologetic/ sympathetic view of the Chinese government.

I think big government states where the people and economy are essentially controlled by the state; are inherently evil - full stop.
We have seen it with the Soviet Union, North Korea and China.

Even if changes are being made, for instance economic liberalisation; human rights continue to be breached, and the changes are only there to keep the population appeased.
Remember "the individual is Soveriegn" (JS Mill).
 
I'm just trying to present the other side of the arguement, because noone else seems to be. Everyone is always quick to tout how bad China is, but having visited there several times I have seen how fast the ordinary people's lives are changing, for the better.

And our governments are happy enough to do trade with them, going against the democracy of Taiwan. If we really stood for human rights and freedoms, we'd support Taiwan uncompromisingly.

There's also the issue with the elder, ex-Chinese leaders keeping hold of certain branches of power.
They've obviously deemed freedom of speech as harmful to the development of the country - probably because they're scared of civil war, or external propaganda? I don't agree with it, but I am trying to understand why they've done it, rather than the easy way "oh, they're evil commies"
It's a country full of contradictions, and it's pretty difficult to understand the Far-Eastern culture/society. I'd like to see China with political freedom and freedom of speech too, but at the same time it would be interesting to see that without them being sub-ordinate to the Western nations.
 
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