*Gun control proponents* 8 stabbed at grocery store, co-worker arrested

[kjac]

A few days old, but news nonetheless.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/21/supermarket.stabbing.ap/index.html

ARLINGTON, Tennessee (AP) -- A knife-wielding grocery store employee attacked eight co-workers Friday, seriously injuring five before a witness pulled a gun and stopped him, police said.

The 21-year-old suspect, whose name was withheld pending charges, was arrested and then taken to a hospital after complaining of chest pains, Memphis Police Sgt. Vince Higgins said. The attack apparently stemmed from a work dispute, police said.

Five victims, one in critical condition, were admitted to the Regional Medical Center, the main trauma hospital for the Memphis area. Three others were less badly hurt and treated at another hospital.

The attacker, chasing one victim into the store's parking lot, was subdued by Chris Cope, manager of a financial services office in the same small shopping center, Higgins said.

Cope said he grabbed a 9mm semiautomatic pistol from his pickup truck when he saw the attacker chasing the victim "like something in a serial killer movie."

"When he turned around and saw my pistol, he threw the knife away, put his hands up and got on the ground," Cope told The Associated Press. "He saw my gun and that was pretty much it."

Police arrived within minutes and took the attacker into custody.

"He just kept saying, 'I'm insane. I wish I was never born' and that kind of stuff," Cope said.

The attack started in an employee area of the Schnucks supermarket on the outskirts of Memphis and no customers were involved, Higgins said.

Police said two large kitchen knives used in the attack were found at the scene.

Witness Frank Rector said the attacker held a knife high in a stabbing position as he chased a victim into the parking lot. The victim, Rector said, "was circling, trying to get away from him."

The ages of the victims were not immediately released. Higgins and a company spokeswoman said all the victims were employees of the store.

The spokeswoman said officials from the St. Louis-based company were on their way to the scene.

Higgins said police were pulling into the parking lot as Cope was confronting the attacker.

"We commend him," Higgins said. "But we don't encourage people to take that kind of risk. He could have been hurt."

 

[Majestic XII]

"Cope said he grabbed a 9mm semiautomatic pistol from his pickup truck"

That makes me more scared than anything else in the article. There was another big guns vs no guns thread not too long ago, and i cant remember what most people thought but I'm sure as hell not a supporter of walking around with guns.

 

[gick]

If I lived in America I would be pro-gun, simply because when every criminal in the country is armed, it makes sense that the law-abiding citizens should be armed too - for self defence.

As it is though, I live in the UK, and virtually nobody here has guns. As a result, there is virtually no gun related crime. I'd like it to stay that way, so I am against loosening the gun laws here. Of course, if it got to the point where every mugger and robber in the country had an assault rifle, then I'd probably reconsider.

 

[^Ben]

For every feel good story like this you get 100 about a kid finding daddys gun and shooting himself in the head.

 

[Bob_Marley]

If I lived in America I would be pro-gun, simply because when every criminal in the country is armed, it makes sense that the law-abiding citizens should be armed too - for self defence.

As it is though, I live in the UK, and virtually nobody here has guns. As a result, there is virtually no gun related crime. I'd like it to stay that way, so I am against loosening the gun laws here. Of course, if it got to the point where every mugger and robber in the country had an assault rifle, then I'd probably reconsider.

Virtually no gun related crime? Dude, what have you been smoking? Gun crime has gone up by at least 92% (some estimates put it as high as 200%) since 1997, when handguns were reclassified to section 5 (effectivly banning them).

 

[gick]

Virtually no gun related crime? Dude, what have you been smoking? Gun crime has gone up by at least 92% (some estimates put it as high as 200%) since 1997, when handguns were reclassified to section 5 (effectivly banning them).

Compared to the US we have still have virtually none. Saying its gone up by 200% still doesnt mean much if the levels werent very high to begin with.

 

[Absinthe]

Hooray for anecdotes.

 

[Laivasse]

OMG, it's official! It's easier to kill people with knives than with guns!

Oh wait, it isn't at all. Never mind.

 

[VictimOfScience]

What a n00b for pulling a gun...the guy clearly demonstrated that he wanted to go just knives!

 

[Icarusintel]

People that think "gun control" curbs gun violence are idiots.

 

[Ennui]

Obviously we should place a gun in the hands of every man, woman, and child in America. That way, this guy would have managed to get a shot off and kill someone before the rest of them pumped him full of lead.

I love how you wrote the thread title so it's like "PRO-GUN FELLOWS, THE DAMNING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT OUR CASE HAS FINALLY BEEN REVEALED"

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Friend of mine relayed this story to me yesterday, he's a contractor now for the Department of Defense as a network admin at their company HQ in Seattle. He's the one who served in Iraq and just got out of the army.

A car and an SUV full of contractors were driving back from Cali from a seminar, everyone armed. This car flew by going way too fast down the road so they moved in to trap it to force it to slow down/let it know what was up. So the car they were trapping RAMS the contractor car then swerves and pulls over. They do too.

The guy in there gets out and pulls a gun on the car driver. BAD IDEA. EVERYONE drew a pistol on him. Like 9 to 1. They had him almost ****ing crying on the ground until highway patrol showed up and took him in.

Yet again private gun ownership wins.

 

[Ennui]

He probably wouldn't have a gun if private gun ownership didn't exist...

 

[Absinthe]

Hooray for more anecdotes.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

He probably wouldn't have a gun if private gun ownership didn't exist...

He was illegally armed. I highly doubt if it was banned tomorrow he'd stop carrying considering he was doing it illegally in the first place. So no.

Gun control doesn't disarm criminals, it disarms law abiding owners.

 

[Majestic XII]

The damage is already done in America so to say. It's not a problem to get a gun and many people have guns. However, if you would let the guns "free" in another country, lets say Sweden (because i live there), we would se a huge upswing in gunrelated crimes. It's pretty obvious.

Most guns are stolen and used in crimes, so if more people have them, there would be more illegal guns on the streets (and used in crimes).

 

[DeusExMachina]

I have no problem with people having guns. I mean, at least the guy has the decency to keep it in his car instead of on his person.

 

[Raeven0]

He probably wouldn't have a gun if private gun ownership didn't exist...

The typical counterargument: "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns."

And the typical conclusion: "If all guns everywhere were destroyed and banned from production, only the people insane enough to produce their own guns would have guns."

 

[gick]

The damage is already done in America so to say. It's not a problem to get a gun and many people have guns. However, if you would let the guns "free" in another country, lets say Sweden (because i live there), we would se a huge upswing in gunrelated crimes. It's pretty obvious.

Most guns are stolen and used in crimes, so if more people have them, there would be more illegal guns on the streets (and used in crimes).

Thats kinda what I was trying to say. Necessary when everybody has guns already, unnecessary everywhere else.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

The typical counterargument: "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns."

And the typical conclusion: "If all guns everywhere were destroyed and banned from production, only the people insane enough to produce their own guns would have guns."

Well first of all it's not 'insane' to make your own guns. Didn't Barett make his rifle in his garage? It happens all the time, whether they be completely new designs or just buying parts and making (like a computer)

That said it'd be impossible to do anyway. You might as well say "If guns never existed though in the first place then there wouldn't be gun violence"

well duh. If there were no cars there'd be no car accidents either.

 

[15357]

Guns are illegal here. But we still have gun-related crimes.
Reeasons:
#1.

The Case of Kim Dong-shik, an Armed North Korean Agent Who Infiltrated Puyo,South Chungchong Province

Facts

Relevant authorities had been working since April, 2004 on a tip that a North Korean agent was active in the area of Puyo, South Chungchong Province, XX miles south of Seoul
In early October, 2004, about 10 anti-infiltration agents from the agency and the police were dispatched to plot an ambush around Chonggak Temple, where a possible meeting of agents seemed pending.
On Oct. 24, 2004, the agents attempted to nab two suspicious persons near Chonggak Temple around14:00, resulting in a thirty-minute crossfire.
The agents then immediately alerted the military and the police, requesting back-up. After cordoning off the area, the military and the police arrived to nab Kim Dong-shik while Park Kwang- nam escaped.
20,000 military, police, and reserve forces men were mobilized to hunt down Park Kwang-nam and close off all possible routes of escape. Park was spotted on Oct. 27 at around 11:00 in the nearby town of Kopyong in Puyo County. He died on the way to the hospital after sustaining gunshot wounds.


Place of Birth : Yongyon County, South Hwanghae Province
N.K. Address : Moranbong District, Pyongyang Unit: An agent with the N.K. Workers' Party, Social and Cultural Department, an anti-South Operations unit.
Name : Kim Dong - shik



Route of Infiltration and Activities

An intense probe of the captured spy Kim Dong-shik revealed that;
He first entered South Korea on May 30, 1990 through the coastline of Pomok-dong, Cheju Island. He made contact with Lee Sun-shil. Lee was a high-ranking agent, 22nd in the North Korean Workers' Party hierarchy, who had already built an underground subversion cell dubbed 'Namhan Chosun Workers' Party's Central Region, Chapter in South Korea. Kim worked with Lee for five months, before escorting returning agent Hwang In-ho to North Korea via Kanghwa Island near Inchon.
Kim made his way to the South for the second time in April 1995. His mission was to deliver espionage equipment and pass on orders to the espionage agents already working in the South. He had also received orders to escort agents dispatched 15 years ago. He and Park Kwang-nam joined to form one team.
They arrived at Onpyong-ri coast of Cheju Island on Aug. 29, 2004, having left Nampo, North Korea in a vessel disguised as a fishing boat.


The activities of Kim Dong-shik and Park Kwang-nam from the Sept. 2 infiltration to their capture on Oct. 24.
Operating from motels in Songnam, Kyonggi Province, and the city of Taejon, the duo disguised themselves as victims of the collapsed Sampoong Department Store.
They alternately used four elaborate counterfeit (South Korean) identification cards as they roamed the cities of Seoul, Taegu, and Kwangju, as well as areas of Kyonggi, Kangwon and South Chungchong provinces. They purchased medium-wave radios to decode message from the North, and also other items, such as clothes and watches, at Seoul's Lotte Department Store and Namdaemun Market.
They boldly disclosed their identity, saying that they were 'persons from the North' and that they should 'join hands in the movement for reunification.' They aggressively sought out those also in the political and the NGO fields.
In any event, they were planning to set up another major spy ring in the South. For that purpose, they dug seven non-manned posts throughout the nation, including Taejon, Ichon, and Namyangju, and buried enormous amount of cash, shotguns, guns with poison bullets, wireless communication apparati and other espionage equipment.
Their possession of deadly weapons - including silencers, guns with poison bullets, and lethal suicide drugs showed that they were armed infiltrator agents.
Three shotguns,
44 bullets,
two poison guns,
three lethal suicide drugs,
15 walkie-talkies,
2 counterfeit resident's cards,
and 18 types of cryptograms
are among some 1,404 items confiscated along
with $61,100 and ￦748,900 in cash.

Kim Dong-shik and Park Kwang-nam's activities reflect that the North is engaging second-generation revolutionary guards in its anti-South operations. These espionage agents are the so-called "new generation of infiltrator agents," carefully chosen to receive back-to-back assimilation education about South Korean language and environment.

They are bold. Zeroing in on the fact that the North's Juche (self-reliance) Ideology is circulated within the social activists' circles in the South, the agents readily reveal that they are North Korean agents sent on a mission.
The counterfeit identification cards they possessed showed sophisticated computer work was done to insert the infiltrator agents' real fingerprints, rather than simply swapping their photos.


In terms of their weaponry,
The team was equipped to perform killings within a seven to eight meters range with high-caliber poison guns. They also possessed wireless communications equipment with a memory function that allowed them to radio home messages in a short time.


Although their missions were short-term, at most two months, they carried huge amounts of cash: $61,100 and ￦4 million.
That cash, equipment, and weaponry were buried in a non-manned hole indicates that these items were intended to be passed on to other agents already working in the South

The case proves that the North has stepped up its infiltration and intelligence-gathering activities in the South, taking of advantage of the fact that its Juche Ideology was being circulated in some groups and of a generally lax public awareness of Communist activities in the nation.

#2. People steal from soldiers.

 

[Tr0n]

I <3 my guns.

 

[Raziaar]

I remember when I was in 2nd grade... a friend of mine had apparently killed himself with his dads gun, whe he and a friend were playing with it. They had the flag up at half-staff.

That was shortly before I moved to alaska.

 

[Ennui]

Well first of all it's not 'insane' to make your own guns. Didn't Barett make his rifle in his garage? It happens all the time, whether they be completely new designs or just buying parts and making (like a computer)

That said it'd be impossible to do anyway. You might as well say "If guns never existed though in the first place then there wouldn't be gun violence"

well duh. If there were no cars there'd be no car accidents either.

hahaha, they always pull out the comparison to cars. cars were not created and mass produced for the sole purpose of killing other people

 

[Slacker]

I still think life would be a helluva lot cooler if we still ran around killing each other with swords and sheilds like in the good ol' days. Katanas would be so in!

 

[Kangy]

America and guns is ridiculous (too much crappy idiot culture based around them) but it should not and cannot be placed under the same system as the UK. It just wouldn't work.

 

[Terminator]

Well first of all it's not 'insane' to make your own guns. Didn't Barett make his rifle in his garage? It happens all the time, whether they be completely new designs or just buying parts and making (like a computer)

That said it'd be impossible to do anyway. You might as well say "If guns never existed though in the first place then there wouldn't be gun violence"

well duh. If there were no cars there'd be no car accidents either.

Guns are very simple tools, imo it's just like prohibition in america.....pointless.
You end up with homemade and imported stuff racking in a huge amount for the people who run the guns, if a criminal wants a gun they'll get one......there will always be someone with machine skill willing to make $$$

You can build a shotgun in half an hour, a submachine gun in a day.
Africans regularly construct AK47 parts in mud huts, using simple hand tools.

The only way you could stop guns fully would be to ban all metal supplies and tools and keep watch 24/7...........but that would be what you call a police state.

Oh, and if you remove all guns everyone will just stab each other instead.......like they are in the UK.
Ban knives? ......that's even sillier.

 

[BirdMan]

Oh, and if you remove all guns everyone will just stab each other instead.......like they are in the UK.
Ban knives? ......that's even sillier.

Try to fight a guy with a gun, and a guy with a knife. Tell me which one you have more chance to survive. Here let me give you a clue

Gun Guy___________________You
:sniper: --------------------> <---Dead

Knife Guy____________________You
:hmph: o=|==>______________:bounce: <----Catch me if you can!

 

[Black_Wolf]

hahaha, they always pull out the comparison to cars. cars were not created and mass produced for the sole purpose of killing other people

mhm....I dont use my guns to kill,I go to the range,competive target shooting is fun.





by target I mean metal plates not animals or humans.

 

[Solaris]

In America, why not just make it illegal to import or manufacture guns gradually, thus in 50 years the guns will break and you have no guns.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

hahaha, they always pull out the comparison to cars. cars were not created and mass produced for the sole purpose of killing other people

I wasn't making a 'moral' equivelant I was making a statistical equivelant.

You can't get rid of all the guns. The only ones who would turn them in are the law abiding owners (hell and half of them probably would opt rather to be considered outlaws and keep their arms)

You think Mr. Serial Killer is going to solemnly go to the place to turn them in and hand it over? "I guess my days are over"

 

[Black_Wolf]

The US Army still use the 50cal that gun is much older then 50 years.
also my great Grandad owned a Winchester Rifle that was well over 120 years old and it still works.

 

[kjac]

The US Army still use the 50cal that gun is much older then 50 years.
also my great Grandad owned a Winchester Rifle that was well over 120 years old and it still works.

they don't make em like they used to son

but I think it is illegal to import illegal drugs into the USA as well, doesn't seem to be working that great though.

and instead of just having meth labs, we'd see "gun labs" as well :cheese:

 

[SenorDingDong]

howd he injure 8 people?

If all 8 just rushed him it wouldnt have been a problem.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

they don't make em like they used to son

but I think it is illegal to import illegal drugs into the USA as well, doesn't seem to be working that great though.

and instead of just having meth labs, we'd see "gun labs" as well :cheese:

There are restrictions on certain gun importations in the US, but it's more of a protected trade issue for American arms I think than a gun control one.

 

[Flyingdebris]

If you don't want a gun, thats ok. But you know what, when the shit hits the fan and the police are still 5 minutes away, i'd like to be within my rights to carry and use a gun to protect my life or the lives of others.

And if you don't want people blowing off faces and hands with their own weapons on accident, make sure they learn proper safety procedures, or properly learn how dangerous it is.

 

[Glo-Boy]

Friend of mine relayed this story to me yesterday, he's a contractor now for the Department of Defense as a network admin at their company HQ in Seattle. He's the one who served in Iraq and just got out of the army.

A car and an SUV full of contractors were driving back from Cali from a seminar, everyone armed. This car flew by going way too fast down the road so they moved in to trap it to force it to slow down/let it know what was up. So the car they were trapping RAMS the contractor car then swerves and pulls over. They do too.

The guy in there gets out and pulls a gun on the car driver. BAD IDEA. EVERYONE drew a pistol on him. Like 9 to 1. They had him almost ****ing crying on the ground until highway patrol showed up and took him in.

Yet again private gun ownership wins.

Lame. Also untrue. Seriously, grow up. Did your friend also do a tuck and roll before brandishing two two-tone USP match pistols?