Guys and gals, the hacker isn't the problem.

Status
Not open for further replies.
V

vitalsign0

Guest
Valve is solely to blame.

I am in charge of network security. Hackers frequently try to get through. If they do, I lose my job. My job is to protect my client's assets. If I don't, there is no one to blame but myself.

This wasn't even a hardcore hacker. This was a easy hack. Valve didn't pay much concern to protecting there product or the Havok 2.0 engine.

To blame this mess on the hacker is just removing the blame where it lies, on Valve. They weren't proactive in protecting their assets and made their product available on a nonsecured computer(s). This is unexcusable.
 
Remind you....He didn'T get everything...he got a part and couldn'T get more. Believe me, someone with any common sense who is hacking Valve to get the game would try to get the COMPLETE game...:bounce:
 
That doesn't defy from the fact that without a hacker, there wouldn't be anything stolen...
 
In before close.


i happen to agree that the hacker did not cause a delay,

its simply becuase the game is not finished.

but thats just my opinion and these threads dont go down to well with the fanboys......
 
it's not advisable to do this. you're gonna get a million 12 year olds raining fire down on you.

but how isn't the hacker a problem? even if everything was secure the hacker would still be present, and maybe he would eventually get through. how do you know it wasn't a hardcore hacker? how do you know it was an easy hack? how do you know Valve didn't pay much concern to protecting their product? as far as i know, Valve has not publicly blamed this on anyone. so who's been blaming the hacker apart from the community? how do you know they weren't proactive in protecting their assets?

don't state your opinion as fact, and more importantly, if you're going to make such rash statements back them up with proof for goodness sake. you can't be well educated if you don't know that simple fact. state your assumptions, then state the proof for those assumptions. think before you type please.
 
Oh, of course, the hacker is not at all at fault here. We all know that the source code and some of the resources would have taken it upon itself to take off through the network and land itself on someone's computer. Just as any car that is left unlocked will automatically drive itself to a chop shop.

This might not have occured to you but a thief who enters through an unlocked door is still an unwelcome intruder and it is still illegal trespass. I'm not saying that leaving the 'door unlocked' was a smart move on Valve's part. It was a foolish move, indeed. Perhaps the people involved with Valve's network operations and security should be strung up on the flagpole. I think that claiming that Valve is solely to blame is pretty rash and ridiculous. It boils down to this: no thief, no theft... whether the door is locked or not.

I'm not going to claim that the hacker is the big cause for the delay, though. But surely it has a delaying effect on the game. The source code of a game with online capability being stolen can pose a security risk for anyone with that game. Some things will have to be changed. That will take time. This adds to the whatever delay there may have been in the first place because it's SOMETHING else Valve has to work on.
 
I agree with Dedalus. Gabe acknowledged that he was hacked through his mail client, but that's all he said. I guess people knew he was using MS Outlook from his emails, which I agree is a security risk to begin with, but how the hacker actually attacked him hasn't been established yet. The DOS and keystroke recorder hacks were all speculation. For all we know Valve could have been up to date on all their MS patches and updates. The hacker could have been using their own breed of hack that MS didn't know about and therefore couldn't protect against.

Now vitalsign0, being in charge of network security at your place of employment, you should know that there is no way to be 100% secure and still be on the internet. I'm in Systems Support at a D.O.D. subsidized company, and though we secure ourselves to meet extremely strict government standards, we're still subject to worms, D.O.S., and viruses. The only way to secure yourself against attacks from the outside is to completely remove yourself from the internet, and even then you're still vulnerable to attacks within (i.e. disgruntled employees).

Not to mention the fact that Valve is a relatively small software company and probably doesn't have the budget to implement expensive and labor intensive network security.
 
did anyone think enought to realise that valve themselves might not look after the security. And that someone else was to blame. Or maybe it was just that gabe doesent know much about network security and he didnt realise that someone accessing his email was such a big deal. Maybe he didnt realise at all.


And above all. I am sure that the hacker is to blame because....


He hacked it didnt he. The git!

And no one knows for definate what has caused the delay and for how long. So stop "debating" that issue. Its getting boring.
 
ookami, I couldn't have said it better myself - now stop editing your post :p
 
Originally posted by dæmon
now stop editing your post :p
Click to expand...
You'd rather I live up to my n00b status here and double post with anything I have to add? ;)
 
Originally posted by vitalsign0
Valve is solely to blame.

I am in charge of network security. Hackers frequently try to get through. If they do, I lose my job. My job is to protect my client's assets. If I don't, there is no one to blame but myself.

This wasn't even a hardcore hacker. This was a easy hack. Valve didn't pay much concern to protecting there product or the Havok 2.0 engine.

To blame this mess on the hacker is just removing the blame where it lies, on Valve. They weren't proactive in protecting their assets and made their product available on a nonsecured computer(s). This is unexcusable.
Click to expand...

So it's my fault if a criminal breaks into my locked garage, smashes the windows on my locked car, hot-wires the ignition switch and drives off with my car?
 
Re: Re: Guys and gals, the hacker isn't the problem.

Originally posted by Netherscourge
So it's my fault if a criminal breaks into my locked garage, smashes the windows on my locked car, hot-wires the ignition switch and drives off with my car?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.

Could even take it a step farther: Even if the garage was unlocked, and the car door was unlocked, and the keys were still in the ignition.....it's still theft to take the car.
 
Hacking is a crime !

Someone bangs in your car, your wife is killed.

THEN EVERYONE COMES AT YOU FOR BEING THERE AT THE MOMENT AND NOT HAVING A TANK !

What part don't you understand ???:bounce:
 
You guys are missing the point. The internet is a lot like New York City, where I grew up. It's gotten to the point that, if you leave your car door open, with your keys in the ignition, and someone just happens to take off with your car, it is your fault. Even the cop that fills out the report will tell you it's your own damn fault. Get it straight people, he's not saying that just because Valve may have been vulnerable to the attack, that somehow it isn't illegal. He's just saying that if they had been so incredibly vulnerable (which I don't necessarily believe), then it was their own fault they got hacked.
 
Valve's security could have been tighter. That much is obvious. But to blame them for the actions of an apparently determined and malacious individual seems pretty misguided.
 
How very profound. Man, and we have been picking on the poor hacker! He is innocent! I see it now!

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
It's gotten to the point that, if you leave your car door open, with your keys in the ignition, and someone just happens to take off with your car, it is your fault.
Click to expand...
Just because large cities have become callous crapholes doesn't mean that it's the right attitude. If you leave your doors unlocked, you do have to accept partial responsibility. I understand that. But that doesn't mean it's ALL your fault. It's still takes a thief to commit theft and that thief must be held responsible for the crime also.
 
Originally posted by vitalsign0
Valve is solely to blame.

I am in charge of network security. Hackers frequently try to get through. If they do, I lose my job. My job is to protect my client's assets. If I don't, there is no one to blame but myself.

This wasn't even a hardcore hacker. This was a easy hack. Valve didn't pay much concern to protecting there product or the Havok 2.0 engine.

To blame this mess on the hacker is just removing the blame where it lies, on Valve. They weren't proactive in protecting their assets and made their product available on a nonsecured computer(s). This is unexcusable.
Click to expand...

Yes - and those stupid girls who dress provacatively bring rape upon themselves. It's all their fault. Always blame the victims. It's more fun. Oh wait - they didn't do anything wrong, that would be the attacker.

It's SMART to take steps to defend yourself. It's NOT your FAULT though if you are attacked.
 
Originally posted by ookami
Just because large cities have become callous crapholes doesn't mean that it's the right attitude. If you leave your doors unlocked, you do have to accept partial responsibility. I understand that. But that doesn't mean it's ALL your fault. It's still takes a thief to commit theft and that thief must be held responsible for the crime also.
Click to expand...

Sure, it's the car thiefs fault that he steals cars. But it's your fault when you leave your car unprotected and he just happens to steal yours. See the difference?

We all can't live in the sheltered utopian society that you obviously do.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Sure, it's the car thiefs fault that he steals cars. But it's your fault when you leave your car unprotected and he just happens to steal yours. See the difference?
Click to expand...
Point is, there is nothing inherently immoral about leaving your car unlocked.
 
yah, when someones car gets stolen the person who stole it shouldnt be to blame, it should deffinetely be the person who didnt use laser trip wires to guard it

fool
 
You guys are hilarious, posting away discussing moral issues.
Anyone here a hacker? no i'm not talking to you, you script kiddie irc spamming sub7 loser boy that thinks he's leet because he knows how to download.
OooOOoo microsoft didnt know about these 1337 crax! news flash: ms never knows. if ms knows, they dont care because it costs lots of money to develop patches then distribute them. so, ms never patches even close to "sometimes". new exploits are found daily.
Valve got hacked because Gabe talks to the public freely from work computers. All you need is contact, an IP to go on, and if you're smart enough and the user is using windows, you can get in. I dont give a **** how many firewalls you have installed. don't try to shove firewall security down my throat you dumb zonealarm computer noob, that's ignorant. I dont give a **** how many security measures you have. you use windows, you have the internet, you get hacked. simple as that!

and so we come to the question you guys are bitching about. "who's fault is it". You guys have such a fanboy mentality, blaming it all on one thing/person. here's who's fault it is: Microsoft for having shitty software, valve for using shitty software and having their information on internet connected computers (or computers that are LAN'd to a computer with internet access) and for talking to the public from work computers - that is just like telling thousands of people your home address just after you told them you have something worth millions and millions of dollars inside. there are robbers that want what you have, and its your fault for providing their motivation just as much as it is the person/hackers fault for doing it. For those of you who are slow, in that sentence i blamed both valve and the hacker for doing it.

so you see, three parties to blame. have fun!
 
Can we close this. Its just pointless blame blame blame. It doesent get us anywhere at all.


Lets just say it was a bad thing to happen to good people and leave it as that shall we?
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
Point is, there is nothing inherently immoral about leaving your car unlocked.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking morality here man, I'm talking reality. You try surviving as a software company under the assumption that everyone is inherently good, see how far that get's you.
 
While I do believe that whoever it was that hacked into Valve should have everything protruding from their torso removed with a rusty hacksaw, I really don't feel right saying that Valve shares no blame.

People have been using stealing cars as analogy. Well... I'll tell you what happened here a couple winters back.

We had a cold spell that was very cold. People were going out into their cars, starting them up, leaving them running, then going back into their nice warm houses until their vehicle was warmed up. Well, several thieves apparently noticed this and decided to go around helping themselves to these cars because they were easy targets. The interesting thing about it all was that the owners of the vehicles got very little sympathy from the police. So little in fact that the owners actually received citations for leaving their cars running.

I don't remember thae exact charge against them, but it had something to do with the temptation they presented the would be thieves.

I'm not saying that Valve got what they deserved, I'm just saying that all the mushy crap about them being completely free from blame needs to stop.

Mic
 
yes, please close this...it has no point. who cares whose fault it is or what happened now...that's for valve and whoever's investigating the crime...if any law enforcement agency even is....

valve was dumb for leaving things on internet connected computers, and the cracker was an ass for breaking in in the first place....it's been said 234098237 different ways by as many people...why does it need further discussion?
 
Gabe was not hacked through an exploit in outlook.

and since they talked about travelplans they might've been in before 19th september.
 
Originally posted by vitalsign0
Valve is solely to blame.

I am in charge of network security. Hackers frequently try to get through. If they do, I lose my job. My job is to protect my client's assets. If I don't, there is no one to blame but myself.

This wasn't even a hardcore hacker. This was a easy hack. Valve didn't pay much concern to protecting there product or the Havok 2.0 engine.

To blame this mess on the hacker is just removing the blame where it lies, on Valve. They weren't proactive in protecting their assets and made their product available on a nonsecured computer(s). This is unexcusable.
Click to expand...

I think your speaking out of your ass, I don't know who you work for or if you even have a job, but it's not Valve's fault.
 
I usually try to stay positive on these forums but vitalsign0, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Hackers are not some natural disaster, they are people with minds who are knowingly breaking the law. They skillfully broke into a network and stole something.

The open car is a stupid analogy. If they had the files on a public ftp server, THAT would be like leaving your car unlocked. But hacking a system through outlook overflows to install keyloggers to steal source trees sounds a bit more complicated than opening a door.

I could go into the morality of all this and bring up Kant and Locke and shit but I think I won't waste any more breath.
 
Re: Re: Guys and gals, the hacker isn't the problem.

Originally posted by Netherscourge
So it's my fault if a criminal breaks into my locked garage, smashes the windows on my locked car, hot-wires the ignition switch and drives off with my car?
Click to expand...

Just give him his welfare check, jerry curl, and rap music, and you'll get your car back. No need to worry about whose fault it is that way.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
I'm not talking morality here...
Click to expand...
Then what are we talking about?

All I'm saying is that, yes, Valve was responsible for the security of their system. However, that does not in any way lay the blame at their feet or exonerate the criminal who hacked into their system and stole their software.

Originally posted by Miculus
The interesting thing about it all was that the owners of the vehicles got very little sympathy from the police. So little in fact that the owners actually received citations for leaving their cars running.
Click to expand...
That's just sick. So now we're expected to live impenetrable lives and any vulnerabilities in our lifestyle that are preyed upon by criminals are our fault? That's absurd! God forgive a society that turns its victims into criminals and the criminals into victims.

"Your honor, it's not my client's fault that he stole the plaintiff's car of his own free will. The plaintiff presented a temptation that my client was powerless to resist."

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
Then what are we talking about?

All I'm saying is that, yes, Valve was responsible for the security of their system. However, that does not in any way lay the blame at their feet or exonerate the criminal who hacked into their system and stole their software.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I never said the hacker shouldn't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for this, I'm just beating a dead donkey by saying that if Valve had kept their code away from the internet this wouldn't have happened.
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
That's just sick. So now we're expected to live impenetrable lives and any vulnerabilities in our lifestyle that are preyed upon by criminals are our fault? That's absurd! God forgive a society that turns its victims into criminals and the criminals into victims.

"Your honor, it's not my client's fault that he stole the plaintiff's car of his own free will. The plaintiff presented a temptation that my client was powerless to resist."

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No one's expecting anything from anyone. Unfortunetly some of us do live in societies where the strong survive and the weak are killed and eaten. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. The internet happens to be a lot more like a violent, crime-ridden city than a nice, planned-community suburb.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Oh no, I never said the hacker shouldn't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for this, I'm just beating a dead donkey by saying that if Valve had kept their code away from the internet this wouldn't have happened.
Click to expand...
No sh*t, Sherlock.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Oh no, I never said the hacker shouldn't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for this, I'm just beating a dead donkey by saying that if Valve had kept their code away from the internet this wouldn't have happened.
Click to expand...

Ignorance may be bliss, but speaking about how Valve could have kept their code away from hackers without knowing just how much they actually did goes beyond ignorance and right into stupidity.
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
No sh*t, Sherlock.
Click to expand...

That's probably the most juvenile rebuttal I've ever seen you come up with MM. You're usually so profound with your posts.
 
It's just that we've spent three pages going round in circles only for you to proclaim the obvious. It's a little frustrating.
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
It's just that we've spent three pages going round in circles only for you to proclaim the obvious. It's a little frustrating.
Click to expand...

It all started with you claiming I had said something that I hadn't, that's a little frustrating as well. I was arguing against your claim that stupid people who leave their cars unlocked shouldn't be blamed when it gets stolen. Don't blame me when I have to reitterate myself cause you didn't pay attention.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

MFL
Fascinating look at the ongoing psychological evolution of flat hieirarchies.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
V
I had a tour at the Valve HQ recently, this is what I found out.
Replies
8
Views
9K
UshankaCat
UshankaCat
-smash-
Prize Pools and Engine Upgrades - Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
Replies
4
Views
4K
-smash-
-smash-
Omnomnick
Examining The Files Of "SteamVR Performance Test" & "Aperture Robot Repair"
Replies
27
Views
91K
MFL
MFL
-smash-
What are the leaked "hl3.txt" and "rpg.txt" files all about?
Replies
17
Views
36K
Spamming Tanks
Spamming Tanks
Back
Top