HackCam's Partener Jellious?

[WhiteZero]

This just in from the forefront:

I promised everyone an update on the current situation with the legal work and the beta-testing of the V4 system which has been active since April 1. Now, again, I'm still restrained by an NDA, so I cannot give SPECIFIC information, howevver, if you're smart enough and can put 2+2 together, I don't need to say anything specific anyways.

Simply put, at this point in time, V4 is in jeopardy. Not because of it not functioning, but because it has been functioning BETTER then anticipated. The developers I have been in talks with via the legal work developed their own anti-cheating system to handle the problem of cheaters on servers. It was decided at that time to run both programs simultaneously to test them both out, and to test how well they functioned in parallel at the same time. Let's face it, 2 AC's are better then 1 AC any day (you can never have enough security).

The month of testing is nearly up, and guess what. The developers AC system (as of my last update) had caught and confirmed 63 player IDs who were using 3rd party cheats. In comparison, the HCv4 system had caught 367. Of course our first response was, **** yeah, it works! However, things have been getting darker.

From the developers point of view, HC must be faulty, since only 63 of the HC confirmed players could be confirmed by their own AC system, leaving 304 other player IDs in 'limbo'. We can all sit back, look at that, and realistically say, well, HC works better obviously. However, from the other side of the coin, it can be viewed as "No, our AC is accurate, the HC results are all false-positives because we didn't catch them ourselves!" This could simply be pride speaking on their part, since I have been DENIED access to the HC information that was generated for the IDs in question.

This is the reason that V4 has been delayed. It should have been released a week ago to the public server pool for use. We are currently in talks still with the developers to get access to the information required in order to verify whether the players were false-positive hits or not. Additionally, an external panel has been created to look over the information available by both AC systems to determine whether the HC project will continue via the legal channels that have already been created and used.

More information will come as it becomes available to me. I would ask however that regardless of 'filling in the blanks' above, don't start a crusade with any developers you think may be involved, since this can only hinder the project more.

From: http://www.az-prod.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=214

Well, VAL... uhh... I mean the "developer" needs to wake up and see that their AC is easily bypassed.

Every single AC that I've seen has been tricked/bypassed (Cheating-Death, Paladin, Punkbuster, VAC, etc...)

 

[Dekstar]

yeah the "Developer" Needs to see that not only is their AC easily bypassed (As was their old AC), but HC works on a totally different basis. The "Developers" AC does not look for what the players are behaving like, but instead what makes them behave strangely. HC uses the Former.

Personally, I've trusted the "Developers" instinct up 'till now, But in my opinion, they need to get their act together and look at where their AC can be greatly improved upon. Mainly with the help of HC.

-Dekstar

 

[Feath]

I think this developer is right to be worried about false positives. If they were to use a system which banned 550% more people, they'd have to be pretty sure that the system actually works and doesn't just ban people for being good at a game.

I think the makers of HC are wrong to say that it's "obvious" that HC is better. The point of an anti-cheat system to get the people who cheat, not the most amount of people.

 

[mortiz]

Remember guys this is just one side of the story, as Feath said if HC is giving false positives then it could be very bad for "the developers" business, and it'll be them who lose out if HC is faulty and they go full steam ahead with it. (no pun intended)

On the other hand I still think they should release the results of the tests to the developers of HC. That should help clear up one or two things.

 

[The Brick]

I saw the video of HC in action, and it's very good. The only thing I didn't like about it is the 'pre-aim'. Everyone pre-aims, so I think it would be stupid to ban someone for pre-aiming too much. It's not cheating, it's expecting enemies to be somewhere.

 

[Dekstar]

I think this developer is right to be worried about false positives. If they were to use a system which banned 550% more people, they'd have to be pretty sure that the system actually works and doesn't just ban people for being good at a game.

I think the makers of HC are wrong to say that it's "obvious" that HC is better. The point of an anti-cheat system to get the people who cheat, not the most amount of people.

Have you read through the information about hack cam? HC doesn't actually "Get" or "Ban" people. It looks for certain... Weird actions that people perform, and gives them a score based on this. The score can then be used by admins to determine if they 'think' people are cheating. It doesn't ban for you. It just gives you the information you need to give yourself a nice little educated idea before banning someone. If someone is definately wall hacking on a public server (e.g. so definately aiming at people through walls and following them 100% accurately), then instead of you not knowing, HC will tell you through messages that this one person is aiming at another through a wall, without missing or faultering once.
Of course, the persons score doesn't reach the fabled '85' mark (Or almost possible cheater) straight away. It tallies a small score of say, 4 points, and then carries on spectating that player. If the person continues this habit of aiming at people through walls (Even taking into account whether it's a common hiding spot or not) then it'll keep tallying.

It's the same with lock bots and anti recoil. They're easier cheats to spot and so people will get a higher tally instantly.

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As a side note: Hack Cam has been in development for over 10 years in total, and not just focusing on CS either. That doesn't instantly mean it's better, but he's had more time to improve, test, and generally make it more perfect than those at VALVe had. I'm sure VALVe will have an amazing anti-cheat in that time, but until then, Hack Cam, in my opinion, is better.

EDIT: "The Brick", people will have to be 'pre-aiming' one hell of a lot, and with considerable accuracy (e.g. Aiming directly at someone's head while they're moving without missing once, through seven walls). and then they'll have to be doing that all map, and have the highest score with 0 deaths to reach the fabled 85 mark. So you don't have to worry.

 

[Feath]

Have you read through the information about hack cam? HC doesn't actually "Get" or "Ban" people. It looks for certain... Weird actions that people perform, and gives them a score based on this. The score can then be used by admins to determine if they 'think' people are cheating. It doesn't ban for you. It just gives you the information you need to give yourself a nice little educated idea before banning someone. If someone is definately wall hacking on a public server (e.g. so definately aiming at people through walls and following them 100% accurately), then instead of you not knowing, HC will tell you through messages that this one person is aiming at another through a wall, without missing or faultering once.
Of course, the persons score doesn't reach the fabled '85' mark (Or almost possible cheater) straight away. It tallies a small score of say, 4 points, and then carries on spectating that player. If the person continues this habit of aiming at people through walls (Even taking into account whether it's a common hiding spot or not) then it'll keep tallying.

It's the same with lock bots and anti recoil. They're easier cheats to spot and so people will get a higher tally instantly.

-----------------
As a side note: Hack Cam has been in development for over 10 years in total, and not just focusing on CS either. That doesn't instantly mean it's better, but he's had more time to improve, test, and generally make it more perfect than those at VALVe had. I'm sure VALVe will have an amazing anti-cheat in that time, but until then, Hack Cam, in my opinion, is better.

EDIT: "The Brick", people will have to be 'pre-aiming' one hell of a lot, and with considerable accuracy (e.g. Aiming directly at someone's head while they're moving without missing once, through seven walls). and then they'll have to be doing that all map, and have the highest score with 0 deaths to reach the fabled 85 mark. So you don't have to worry.

I'm aware about what hackcam is. I actually think it's a good thing. At least, I did before I saw these results. I mean, a jump of 300? That's a lot. If HackCam discovered 30 more cheaters, the developers would've thought "This is pretty nifty". But 300 more, you'd be rather stupid to not look into it more. It's not a jealousy thing, it's an accuracy thing.

 

[Direwolf]

A delay sounds appropriate to me too. I'd prefer they check this thoroughly before deciding.