halal food

[jverne]

A Swiss village is churning out puff pastry that adheres to strict Islamic food guidelines and is exported half way across the world. It's all part of the growing global demand for halal food products.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,577843,00.html

ok it's all fine and dandy if a company wants to appeal to more consumers.

but i don't like this trend of islamization the western world is going trough.

here are some figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_in_Western_Europe

ok...europe will not be overrun any time soon, but i believe it's an early symptom.

europe needs to stand up and prevent this event from happening because, by all due respect, our culture is better than what muslims have. it might not be the best but its certainly better. i don't see how anyone can argue about that.

i'm not a nationalist or anything...i'm more of a culturalist...a better culture get's my support no matter where it comes from.

 

[Nomad]

Wait what? Everyone wants a piece of the halal pie?

 

[Tyguy]

what the hell is in it?

 

[No Limit]

Wait just one second. A business selling a product is evidance that europe is being taken over by Islam? Are you people so terrified you have lost all sense of reason?

As a Polish person I can buy Polish food here in New Mexico, I guess this is evidance the Poles are taking over America. You guys better watch the **** out.

 

[Tyguy]

No Limit, first it's pie then it's wmd's.

thats just science.

 

[CptStern]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,577843,00.html

ok it's all fine and dandy if a company wants to appeal to more consumers.

but i don't like this trend of islamization the western world is going trough.

here are some figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_in_Western_Europe

ok...europe will not be overrun any time soon, but i believe it's an early symptom.

europe needs to stand up and prevent this event from happening because, by all due respect, our culture is better than what muslims have. it might not be the best but its certainly better. i don't see how anyone can argue about that.

i'm not a nationalist or anything...i'm more of a culturalist...a better culture get's my support no matter where it comes from.

toronto is the most multicultural city in the world ..we have a little italy, greek town, portugal village, little jamaica, koreatown etc etc ..you can walk in some of those areas and not hear a word of english ..however, every single young person in that area speaks english and has in some way adopted some form of the native culture ..with subsequent generations traditions from the old country become watered down ..which is why everyone in toronto isnt speaking chinese or italian isnt the official language ..sure schools may offer courses in italian and you may see the government officially recognising holidays like purim ..but that doesnt mean canada is overrun by italian jews ...this is the same thing for muslims ..the only real difference is that they're the current scapegoats for everything that is wrong with society. this is absolutely no different than when blacks were scapegoated and made into pariahs. it's convienent and easy to point the finger, regardless if the criticism is legitimate or not

 

[Eejit]

Way to overreact jverne. I especially liked your blatent xenophobia.

 

[jverne]

wow...wait a second...

i never said that muslim food is the main evidence that muslims are taking over.

@stern
you pointed out that most of these minorities in canada have melted down a bit.
establishing muslim districts with islamic law in parts of england and making seperate shelves for halal approved food isn't quite the integration you are witnessing.
yes i agree that the situation with muslims isn't so dramatic. but whens the last time Koreans, Jamaicans, Portugese, Greeks or Italians caused havoc because of a cartoon?
the problem with muslims is that they have their national identity mixed with religious beliefs.

and i've also heard not so good things about canadas multiculturalism in the case of native indians.


as for me being xenophobic...if i fear a culture where peoples freedom is restricted by some imaginary religious laws or where women are treated as second class citizens, then fine call me xenophobic...

 

[Tyguy]

like the article says, muslims make up 1/5th of the world, probably a decent market for a crappy pie.

also, it has 196 layers???? Christ, why arent all muslims fat?

 

[CptStern]

wow...wait a second...

i never said that muslim food is the main evidence that muslims are taking over.

@stern
you pointed out that most of these minorities in canada have melted down a bit.
establishing muslim districts with islamic law in parts of england and making seperate shelves for halal approved food isn't quite the integration you are witnessing.

you've never seen the kosher section of your local grocery store? the grocer in my neighbourhood has an asian food section ..most of the labels are illegible

yes i agree that the situation with muslims isn't so dramatic. but whens the last time Koreans, Jamaicans, Portugese, Greeks or Italians caused havoc because of a cartoon?

one incident does not define 1/5 of the worlds population

the problem with muslims is that they have their national identity mixed with religious beliefs.

jews

and i've also heard not so good things about canadas multiculturalism in the case of native indians.

we buttraped indians just like everyone has ..how is that a proof that canadian multiculturism isnt working/good ..again isolated incidents that proves that some small subsection of canadian politics/government doesnt like injuns ..how that reflects on multiculturism as a whole ..I have no idea

as for me being xenophobic...if i fear a culture where peoples freedom is restricted by some imaginary religious laws or where women are treated as second class citizens, then fine call me xenophobic...

you live with it every single day when you knowingly allow jewish orthodox to live in your city ...or quakers or amish or fundamentalist christians ..it doesnt mean that it's not a problem however singling them out and ignoring all others that commit the same offenses is being bias and maybe even a little racist (I'm not calling you racist)

 

[Druckles]

It's also brushing on racism. The only reason one might not want to live in the middle-east is because their standards of living are lower. That's nothing to do with their religion or their culture. Hell, I think Chinese culture's better than European, and I think English culture's pretty shit, but I don't think that we should all become Chinese.

Christianity has had its share of bad choices, it used to burn people, drown people and do all sorts of horrible things to them. Even last century women were treated as second class citizens. Muslims respect women. More than a lot of Westerners do.

Ignorance is the cause of most Xenophobia.

 

[Tyguy]

we buttraped indians just like everyone has ..

haha, so true. Poor friggen indians. Did i mention im like 1 percent indian?

*waits for buttrape

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Indian Indian or ****** Columbus named 'indian'?
I wouldn't mind some halal pie if you get my drift.

 

[Eejit]

The only reason one might not want to live in the middle-east is because their standards of living are lower.

You ever seen Dubai?

 

[Blackthorn]

Halal meat is just bled differently. Every single kebab/fast food place I know serves halal. Being hostile towards ****ing food cus it's eaten by Muslims is pathetic.

 

[jverne]

you've never seen the kosher section of your local grocery store? the grocer in my neighbourhood has an asian food section ..most of the labels are illegible




one incident does not define 1/5 of the worlds population



jews



we buttraped indians just like everyone has ..how is that a proof that canadian multiculturism isnt working/good ..again isolated incidents that proves that some small subsection of canadian politics/government doesnt like injuns ..how that reflects on multiculturism as a whole ..I have no idea

well then...i guess i was wrong. and i hope you are right and that the muslims will "fit" in eventually, like "everyone else".

you live with it every single day when you knowingly allow jewish orthodox to live in your city ...or quakers or amish or fundamentalist christians ..it doesnt mean that it's not a problem however singling them out and ignoring all others that commit the same offenses is being bias and maybe even a little racist (I'm not calling you racist)

i think i give a fair amount of criticism to all religions around me, not just islam.

again, as for xenophobia...pretty much all cultures that try to censor or limit freedom suck, may it be the muslims, jews, chinese or aliens...

for now the only culture that gives most freedom and cherish human rights is the "western/european" one...so a winner in my book. but it will probably change not to long from now.

 

[99.vikram]

Muslims have to eat halal because that's part of their religious upbringing.

I know what that's like because Hindu brahmins aren't allowed to touch meat, and if you accidentally give them some they might start puking.

Why does this even bother you? Halal meat isn't more expensive, and it doesn't taste any different.

As for western cultural superiority, again it's debatable. Other than womens' rights and scientific progress it's hard to see where you guys are ahead. I'd argue that these cultures you call inferior often have much more cohesive and supportive societies than western ones. For example, it shocks me that someone in the west might think twice before letting relatives stay at their place for a while. (Anecdotal evidence, I know)

 

[Tyguy]

As for western cultural superiority, again it's debatable. Other than womens' rights and scientific progress it's hard to see where you guys are ahead. I'd argue that these cultures you call inferior often have much more cohesive and supportive societies than western ones. For example, it shocks me that someone in the west might think twice before letting relatives stay at their place for a while. (Anecdotal evidence, I know)

id say womans rights and technology are extremely important when criticizing their society. I can't give respect to people who value women less than men.

 

[staticprimer]

I really don't know what to say. Just when I thought certain people on this forum couldn't get any more Islamophobic, we get... this.

 

[Tyguy]

i think its more halalaphobia, which is way more fun to spell

 

[Druckles]

You ever seen Dubai?

I was stereotyping. I'm not saying they're all lower, there are places in Europe which have pretty poor standards of living. Look at Wythenshawe for instance.

 

[Nomad]

wow...wait a second...

i never said that muslim food is the main evidence that muslims are taking over.

@stern
you pointed out that most of these minorities in canada have melted down a bit.
establishing muslim districts with islamic law in parts of england and making seperate shelves for halal approved food isn't quite the integration you are witnessing.
yes i agree that the situation with muslims isn't so dramatic. but whens the last time Koreans, Jamaicans, Portugese, Greeks or Italians caused havoc because of a cartoon?
the problem with muslims is that they have their national identity mixed with religious beliefs.

and i've also heard not so good things about canadas multiculturalism in the case of native indians.


as for me being xenophobic...if i fear a culture where peoples freedom is restricted by some imaginary religious laws or where women are treated as second class citizens, then fine call me xenophobic...

jverne, Muslims aren't a race, they're just people with seperate beliefs.

 

[Kadayi]

I really don't know what to say. Just when I thought certain people on this forum couldn't get any more Islamophobic, we get... this.

Agreed. I think the politics forum died a death quite a while back and no ones has the good grace to just close it down. Plain truth of the matter is it's just become a sounding board for a bunch of racists, warmongers and bigots who have little interest in actually debating a topic, but instead just want to beat their particular dead horse repeatedly in some kind of self congratulatory circle jerk. What's the point in attempting to engage these people? At best they are contemptuous and at worse plain asinine in their responses, and they drag the entire quality of this forum down. Maybe it's time to call it a day because the Politics Forum just drags the rest of HL2.net down as a place TBH. :|

 

[Evo]

If politics was closed then the shit would most likely spread to other areas of the forum which would be even worse than having a politics section.

 

[Laivasse]

I disagree with the way Halal meat is slaughtered. Bleeding an animal to death while it's still alive just because your mystical manual says that's the way it should be done, that grates with me. There may be problems with the conditions in many conventional abbatoirs, but at least the dispatch of the animal is meant to carried out quickly. Then there's the fact that Halal is such big business that I wouldn't be surprised if Halal butchery has now added the worst parts of factory farming onto the already cruel ritualised dogma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2977086.stm

In 2003 in the UK, an independent advisory group - the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) - concluded that the way halal (and Kosher) meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and should be banned immediately.

It's true that Kosher should be singled out for criticism too. However personally speaking I grew up in an area where I've never seen a place that sells Kosher but where every man and his dog eats Halal, so Jewish issues don't really resonate with me. What is particularly aggravating is that I have a (now kind of ex-)friend who recently converted to Islam and now refuses to eat any non-Halal meat. fair enough, you might say, except that he tries to rationalise it by arguing that there is a SCIENTIFIC BASIS for the superiority of Halal, because the unclean blood has been drained out, or whatever horseshit they've told him. Infuriating. At least ADMIT that you're following FAITH-based rules, don't feebly try to maintain your grasp on reason by saying 'Nono, science says I'm right!'

 

[Kadayi]

If politics was closed then the shit would most likely spread to other areas of the forum which would be even worse than having a politics section.

Well at least be honest in what this forum is for and scrap the politics title. Rename it 'Shit talk' make it a sub forum of Off topic after image dump and take it out of the new posts button update.

 

[Laivasse]

Why not just not visit if you dislike it so much? Some people might happen to think it's not just shit talk that goes on here.

 

[Kadayi]

Why not just not visit if you dislike it so much? Some people might happen to think it's not just shit talk that goes on here.

Because its not about me, but about what this particular forum has become and how it represents the hl2.net community. Frankly it doesn't sit comfortably with me as a long term member of this forum that a bunch of semi-retarded bigots are given free range to endless mouth off about whatever takes their fancy under the excuse of it being political in nature, where as if they talked trash in any other forum in the same manner they'd be earning infraction points like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Laivasse]

Bring it to site suggestions/HL2.net feedback then.

 

[Kadayi]

Bring it to site suggestions/HL2.net feedback then.

It's in effect.

 

[jverne]

Agreed. I think the politics forum died a death quite a while back and no ones has the good grace to just close it down. Plain truth of the matter is it's just become a sounding board for a bunch of racists, warmongers and bigots who have little interest in actually debating a topic, but instead just want to beat their particular dead horse repeatedly in some kind of self congratulatory circle jerk. What's the point in attempting to engage these people? At best they are contemptuous and at worse plain asinine in their responses, and they drag the entire quality of this forum down. Maybe it's time to call it a day because the Politics Forum just drags the rest of HL2.net down as a place TBH. :|

i know you are referring to me...let me say this way, i barely remember seeing you make an argument that had any facts behind it. mostly you're just playing the devils advocate, but not with facts but opinion.

it's true that there aren't many true debates going on recently in the politics section. make a rule where opinion posting is illegal and people will probably stop doing it...until then shut up.

my post was mainly my opinion and i even stated i might be wrong...so wheres the problem?

and as for xenophobia/culturalism...i haven't heard one decent argument that is in favor of islamic culture. because any reasonable person can see how islam is not great or any religion based culture for that matter.
i fear the idea of islam (not the muslim "invading us" but the idea)...because it means an end to our freedom we enjoy today...how is that a bad thing...please explain?

and for crying out loud...who ever said i've got a problem with halal food?

 

[Kase]

its opinion v opinion and some people get all worked up when sombody dosnt have the same opinion
its kinda sad really

 

[Kadayi]

iknow you are referring to me...let me say this way, i barely remember seeing you make an argument that had any facts behind it. mostly you're just playing the devils advocate, but not with facts but opinion. it's true that there aren't many true debates going on recently in the politics section. make a rule where opinion posting is illegal and people will probably stop doing it...until then shut up.

So you want to make opinion illegal in the politics section? Throw out logic, morality, ethics, reason and philosophy instead you'd rather the entire forum was a personal playground for you and your kind to jack off endlessly to Fox News propaganda? And if we don't like it your going to shut us up? Sounds like you want to turn the politics forum into a fascist state. :upstare:

i fear the idea of islam (not the muslim "invading us" but the idea)...because it means an end to our freedom we enjoy today...how is that a bad thing...please explain?

Prove it. :dozey:

 

[Sulkdodds]

He means posting unsupported opinion.

 

[Kadayi]

He means posting unsupported opinion.

Empirical evidence is hard to come by when you're attempting to debate the morality of say (for example) attacking another country on the basis of them maybe causing global trouble down the road, or their leader looking a bit shifty to a westerners eyes in an interview. Given conjecture isn't evidence, why allow these threads at all?

I want to see the proof that Islam is going to take away my personal freedoms and I expect jverne to produce it, or maybe (to paraphrase his own words) he'll 'shut the **** up'.

 

[jverne]

So you want to make opinion illegal in the politics section? Throw out logic, morality, ethics, reason and philosophy instead you'd rather the entire forum was a personal playground for you and your kind to jack off endlessly to Fox News propaganda? And if we don't like it your going to shut us up? Sounds like you want to turn the politics forum into a fascist state. :upstare:

it's amazing you completely understood it wrong.
when did i say i want to make opinions illegal?? hell...that's exactly what i didn't want to do...how the **** did you manage to twist my words so much?

it's true that there aren't many true debates going on recently in the politics section. make a rule where opinion posting is illegal and people will probably stop doing it...until then shut up.

wasn't i clear enough?...let me rephrase it "there aren't many true debates in the politics section anymore. but if you are bothered by my purely opinion based thread them make such threads illegal"

got it?

Prove it. :dozey:

certainly...

IF europe wold become a muslim state (which it won't, atleast not anytime soon), then you can probably say goodbye to alot of things you cherish. like taking your wife uncovered out to diner, or drinking beer, or eating pork, criticizing religion without getting beheaded...

i think that you have to be a total retard not to see that in muslim states people have less personal freedom than we in the west.

 

[Kadayi]

there aren't many true debates in the politics section anymore. but if you are bothered by my purely opinion based thread them make such threads illegal

So you think people should be allowed to preach genocide and racism and bigotry? What next for HL2.net should we allow people to post kiddie porn and rape videos?

IF europe wold become a muslim state (which it won't, atleast not anytime soon), then you can probably say goodbye to alot of things you cherish. like taking your wife uncovered out to diner, or drinking beer, or eating pork, criticizing religion without getting beheaded...

*Reads, shakes head...


IF? So basically you've no proof at all? Just vague and nebulous conjecture without any form of evidence to support your claims? The sum total of your argument is 'Well if you all suddenly become Muslims, then you'll all live like fundamentalist Muslims do (not moderate one..but fundamentalist ones)'. An argument that relies upon the whole of Europe dismantling their secular governments and legal infrastructures entirely, and having the entire populace collectively submit themselves to religious Islamic teaching and laws. If that's the best you can deliver as proof is irrational speculation you need to 'shut the **** up' jverne by your own standards.
:dozey:

 

[Nomad]

Anyone else thinking 4Chan?

 

[jverne]

So you think people should be allowed to preach genocide and racism and bigotry? What next for HL2.net should we allow people to post kiddie porn and rape videos?

racism and bigotry, kiddie porn...aren't you a bit over reacting?
when did i say i i hated "arabic" people...i don't like their ideology, there's a big difference.

*Reads, shakes head...


IF? So basically you've no proof at all? Just vague and nebulous conjecture without any form of evidence to support your claims? The sum total of your argument is 'Well if you all suddenly become Muslims, then you'll all live like fundamentalist Muslims do (not moderate one..but fundamentalist ones)'. An argument that relies upon the whole of Europe dismantling their secular governments and legal infrastructures entirely, and having the entire populace collectively submit themselves to religious Islamic teaching and laws. If that's the best you can deliver as proof is irrational speculation you need to 'shut the **** up' jverne by your own standards.
:dozey:

you didn't ask me to give evidence that muslims will rule europe at leas that's the way i understood it.

i've said atleast two times that their ideology/religion is suppressive.
of course europe won't become a new ****ing saudi arabia...i never said that. so stop beating an issue i've already explained.

as proof of islam being suppressive...take a look at any islamic state. (no, Turkey is not a true islamic state, they also have many secular values)
how is that speculation?


edit: i just noticed you failed to understand again

IF? So basically you've no proof at all? Just vague and nebulous conjecture without any form of evidence to support your claims? The sum total of your argument is 'Well if you all suddenly become Muslims, then you'll all live like fundamentalist Muslims do (not moderate one..but fundamentalist ones)'. An argument that relies upon the whole of Europe dismantling their secular governments and legal infrastructures entirely, and having the entire populace collectively submit themselves to religious Islamic teaching and laws. If that's the best you can deliver as proof is irrational speculation you need to 'shut the **** up' jverne by your own standards.
:dozey:

when did i say that speculation or posting an opinion is not allowed???
i never proposed any kind of standard you are talking about.

wasn't i clear enough?...let me rephrase it "there aren't many true debates in the politics section anymore. but if you are bothered by my purely opinion based thread them make such threads illegal"

how the **** did you manage to come from that to:

proof is irrational speculation you need to 'shut the **** up' jverne by your own standards.

is beyond me

 

[Eejit]

as proof of islam being suppressive...take a look at any islamic state. (no, Turkey is not a true islamic state, they also have many secular values)
how is that speculation?

Yeah, they're all oppressive if you only look at all the oppressive ones.

Go figure.