Half-Life 2 Delay Editorial: A Rebuttal

Feath

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(Sorry for posting this in a new thread. If the site was up, I'd ask for it to be part of the articles.)

Half-Life 2 Delay Editorial: A Rebuttal

Everyone's favourite optimist, Fragmaster, has recently posted an editorial about why he believes Half Life 2 will be delayed. You can read this at http://www.planethalflife.com/features/articles/delayeditorial/

Fragmaster starts off by mentioning that the release date hasn't been official changed. This is certainly true unless you count "EB said it was late" as an official announcement. But, the question is, when does Fragmaster expect the game to be officially delayed? I'm writing this on the 9th of September, 3 weeks until the game is expected to be released. It's getting a bit late to announce a delay. Does Fragmaster expect them to announce the delay on the 29th of September, or does he believe that they are hiding the fact the game has been delayed?

He says, "We don't even think Valve knows for certain when the game is coming out." This sentence in itself is true, but his context isn't. He's implying that Valve are clueless about the date, which is untrue. The last statement from Valve was that they were pretty confident of the 30th of September release date. They expect to meet the date, but something drastic could come up. While this isn't "Knowing for certain" when the game is coming out, it's along the lines of "90% certain of the release date."

He continues, "I can't post any proof that the game is delayed, but then again, you can't post any proof the game isn't delayed outside of a few old quotes, speculation, and blind faith that Valve will live up to their so-called promise." While he is certainly right about having no proof that the game is delayed, we have enough proof that it isn't. The "Few old quotes" he refers to are barely two weeks old, and they were said by both Doug Lombardi and Greg Coomer. I think this counts as proof. I think "Innocent until proven guilty" fits here, with no reason to doubt what Valve have said before.

His remark, "Besides, he didn't say September 30th, 2003, so he can always say, "oh, I didn't say what year."", is easily countered. Lombardi said "The release date is unchanged". The release date was September 2003 last time. He attempts to dismiss Lombardi's quotes as just being marketing. This is a poor argument, because what interest would Valve have in misleading people about the release date if the game is actually delayed? It's not a good way to market the game at all.

Fragmaster also states that the major retailers have changed their dates because the game is actually delayed. The retailers had pretty much random dates before ECTS and some of them didn't change it back. The dates retailers have given have varied from August to Feburary. If the retailers knew the true release date then wouldn't they all agree with each other?

As for Multiplayer and the Collector's edition. I've just watched a video interview with Gabe Newell (which was recorded before E3) in which he says "We [Valve] don't want to reveal any details about multiplayer until we ship". If they were planning on not revealing multiplayer in July, why would they go back on that now? Also, isn't the Collector's Edition coming out some time after the games release date? Maybe that would explain why we don't have any details yet.

The reason we haven't seen any new videos or screenshots has been explained countless of times. Valve doesn't want us to play the game through screenshots or videos. They've said this many times.

As a closing statement, I'd just like to mention that Fragmaster bases his opinions about the game being delayed on what he thinks has been done of the game so far. He frequently says such things as "That leaves Valve only 40 days to..." and then lists a long list of things Valve need to do. But, Fragmaster doesn't know how far Valve are with Half-Life 2, his claims are baseless.
 
Originally posted by Feath
But, Fragmaster doesn't know how far Valve are with Half-Life 2, his claims are baseless.

then again neither do you, and then again maybe he does
 
Here here.

EDIT: That was to you, Feath, not Slapwagon.
 
Re: Re: Half-Life 2 Delay Editorial: A Rebuttal

Originally posted by Slapwagon
then again neither do you, and then again maybe he does

Yes but I'm not basing my arugments off my opinion of how far Valve is with the game.
 
Excellent rebuttal Feath!

Kudos for posting something intelligent and thought out, and posting it in a manner easy to agree with. You too have some very valid points.

I think we'll all just have to wait and see what happens. :p
 
"HELLO, I AM A FREAKISH GEEK! MY OPINION IS CORRECT BECAUSE I HAVE A WEB SITE! EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET IS TRUE!""

..
 
here are the proof's i have been collecting

1. "Valve says Half-Life 2 is due to be shipped by the end of September, despite rumours of a delay."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3199545.stm

2. Valve's Greg Coomber insisted Half-Life 2 will hit the shelves on September 30th as planned, despite widespread fears that the game will slip.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=53027

3. No more rumors, Valve has once again reiterated that the release date for HL2 will be September 30th. Gaming site, Computer&VideoGames.Com has done a two part interview with Valve's Doug Lombardi that features the answer to everyone's favorite question. After tons of other sites have been posting what seemed like random speculations, the truth is finally here:

C&G: Finally, obviously there's been a lot of talk about, and confusion surrounding, Half-Life 2's release date following statements from Vivendi. Can you confirm now whether you're still on track to hit the September 30 date?

Lombardi: The release date's unchanged.
Thats actually the final question in the interview, but theres a ton of other questions asked thats semi-informative. Valve is keeping "hush hush" on a lot of the topics just to be sure theres an element of surprise when HL2 comes out. You can read both parts of the interview here(part1) & here(part2).


http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=95556
www.cscentral.com

4. Vossey.com: Can you assure us that HL2's release date is September 30th?

DL: Yes. There is no change in the date. The date of September 30 is worldwide. Including in France and England.

Vossey.com: How will you go about releasing HL 2?

DL: There will be two possible ways to buy HL 2: the traditional method (your preferred retailer) or via Steam (Internet). For those which choose the traditional method, there will be several collectors packs. Steam will intervene constantly with HL 2: via Steam you will be able to update your game, acquire new mods (these mods could be paying or free).


http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

5. A email I got personally from Vivendas PR Manager after asking them if hl2 is delayed.

Valve is committed to the Sept. 30, 2003 ship date.
Amy Farris / PR Manager
Vivendi Universal Games


6. Steam beta ends this wednesday. That would seem perfect for september 30 launch

7. Gabe said that they were play testing
 
Feath have you got some sort of degree in writing or something? Becuase that is exactly all of my feelings put into words that every one can read and understand.

Go Feeeath! Go Feeeath!
 
Originally posted by The Mullinator
Feath have you got some sort of degree in writing or something? Becuase that is exactly all of my feelings put into words that every one can read and understand.

Go Feeeath! Go Feeeath!

maybe he listened in school?
 
Kudos indeed! Feath that is simply brilliant, you took his editorial and shred it to bits piece by piece. I entirely agree you on every single point.

On a side note, Fragmaster reminds me of Fareed Zakaria, they both love to print bullshit.
 
If Vavle releae HL2 on Sep 30th 2003, they will be in the good books for ever!!!

They set one release date, they make it, hmmm sounds nice :)
 
Actually, I'm usually rubbish at English. The nearest thing I've got to a degree is a C in GCSE English Language.

Which is quite bad.

I mainly copied the layout of other editorials I've seen in blogs and suchlike.

Thanks for all the praise people.
 
Even though you copied out the layout its still amazing work. Its too bad your English teachers probably weren't Half Life fans since you would probably get good marks for what you did here.
 
Originally posted by Feath
I mainly copied the layout of other editorials I've seen in blogs and suchlike.

Thanks for all the praise people.
Which is precisely how you get better! Observation, absorption of other people's styles and utilising and developing them to your own ends.
Seriously: Credit where credit's due.
And a C isn't that bad at all... It's a good pass.
 
Good post, I only have one comment:

Originally posted by Feath
The dates retailers have given have varied from August to Feburary. If the retailers knew the true release date then wouldn't they all agree with each other?

I agree that the retailers clearly do not know the actual, specific release date. But there is something else going on here: retailers are getting information from Vivendi that makes them believe HL2 will not make Sept 30th. Given the number of times that retailers have changed their dates, I'm guessing Vivendi keeps telling them slightly different things. But clearly retailers are getting information from the publisher that makes them believe Sept 30th won't happen.

This 'information' could be something as simple as Vivendi not meeting certain milestones, like shipping promotional materials to them. Or it could be Vivendi telling them straight out that they don't expect HL2 for another couple months at least.

Whatever information the retailers are using, I don't think it's wise for anyone to disregard it and call the retailers 'crazy', just because we don't have the same information they do.
 
Re: Re: Half-Life 2 Delay Editorial: A Rebuttal

Originally posted by dscowboy

I agree that the retailers clearly do not know the actual, specific release date. But there is something else going on here: retailers are getting information from Vivendi that makes them believe HL2 will not make Sept 30th. Given the number of times that retailers have changed their dates, I'm guessing Vivendi keeps telling them slightly different things. But clearly retailers are getting information from the publisher that makes them believe Sept 30th won't happen.
[snip]

I think there's a lack of communication between Valve and Vivendi. The last statement I saw from Vivendi (which was 5 days after ECTS) was that "Valve haven't given us a release date yet". Which is strange, especially so soon after Lombardi said that they were confident of making the 30th September release date.

Maybe Valve are leaving Vivendi out of the loop. Maybe thinking that saying 30th of September a few times is enough. Maybe Valve are so busy that they forgot to actually tell the publisher. From what I understand, Valve is only with Vivendi because they can distribute the game. I remember reading that Valve are handling all of the PR and stuff.

Or maybe Vivendi have bad memories of Half-Life 1 being delayed.
 
Ayup.

Thanks,

-Kevin "Fragmaster" Bowen
Community Site Manager, GameSpy Industries
PlanetHalf-Life - http://www.planethalflife.com
PlanetUnreal - http://www.planetunreal.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Williams [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: delay maybe



Well i don't know if iwill actually be out on sept. 30th but i do have a lot of faith in valve. If it comes out on sept. 30th will you still dress up like gordan freeman and pass out copies of halflife 2 :).
 
Thanks for making this post, Feath. Guys, listen, I trust Valve over any stupid retailer. I mean, come on, the reatilers aren't the ones that make the game. So really, any release date that they give you is unreliable. Only the developer know the true release date. I have said it before and I will say it again, I trustGabe Newell and Doug Lombardi over any of the retailers out there. Sure, I've been to EB and they have told me Holiday 2003 and I have been to Gamestop and they have told me February, but how many times have we heard that the release is unchanged? Maybe 30 times? Just trust Valve and stop worrying. I believe that the 30th will be the release date with all my heart. Take it straight from the horses mouth.
 
Originally posted by Killa_TJ
Thanks for making this post, Feath. Guys, listen, I trust Valve over any stupid retailer. I mean, come on, the reatilers aren't the ones that make the game. So really, any release date that they give you is unreliable. Only the developer know the true release date. I have said it before and I will say it again, I trustGabe Newell and Doug Lombardi over any of the retailers out there. Sure, I've been to EB and they have told me Holiday 2003 and I have been to Gamestop and they have told me February, but how many times have we heard that the release is unchanged? Maybe 30 times? Just trust Valve and stop worrying. I believe that the 30th will be the release date with all my heart. Take it straight from the horses mouth.

Here here.
 
Thanks, and here's something to get you thinking.... Think back to E3. Honestly, Valve kept Half Life 2 under wraps very well. And this was jsut a demo of the game. Think what lengths they may have gone through to keep the release and its features a secret. i think Valve has something huge up their sleeve. Just wait until the 30th.
 
I think it took them 1 year to make HL2, and all this time they've been waiting until they though peoples anticipation was high enough to recieve their wonderous game. :p

Valve lives on not the moment itself, but the moment before: anticipation.
 
Originally posted by Killa_TJ
So really, any release date that they give you is unreliable.

Well obviously. But the fact that almost every retailer has moved the date to later than Sept 30th means that they've been told something by Vivendi.

Originally posted by Killa_TJ
Only the developer know the true release date.

No, they don't. If they're getting close to finishing (like, within a few days) they probably have a good idea of when it will be gold, but that still doesn't mean they determine when it will be in stores, that's the publisher's job. And if they're NOT within a few days of gold yet, their estimates could be off by months easily.

Originally posted by Killa_TJ
I have said it before and I will say it again, I trust Gabe Newell and Doug Lombardi

Gabe as not said "Sept 30th" to anyone since July. And Doug Lombardi is their MARKETING GUY. Rule #1, NEVER trust a marketing guy, regardless of who he works for. ;)

Originally posted by Killa_TJ
how many times have we heard that the release is unchanged? Maybe 30 times?

No, twice. Once at ECTS from Doug and Greg, and once in an interview with Doug. Unless you want to count the time in July where the Vivendi PR chick tried to pretend that Vivendi didn't just leak their doubts about Sept to the gaming press and the retailers.

So on one hand we have the developer's marketing guy telling people 'Sept', and on the other hand we have the publisher telling the retailers 'Not Sept'. There appears to be a lack of clarity between Valve and Vivendi, and I don't know who to believe. The only thing that's clear is that none of us know when it will be released.
 
Originally posted by dscowboy
No, twice. Once at ECTS from Doug and Greg, and once in an interview with Doug. Unless you want to count the time in July where the Vivendi PR chick tried to pretend that Vivendi didn't just leak their doubts about Sept to the gaming press and the retailers.

This isn't exactly a blunt, in-your-face Sep 30th testimonial, but I think it does say that more than two people at Valve are in the know:

"But there will always be those who believe the story was born in a single gush from the spigot in Valve’s forehead on September 29th. Ye shall know them by their bumper-stickers."

That was Marc Laidlaw from his recent interview with PHL. I think the reference to the 29th is a good enough foreshadowing for me.
 
Originally posted by dscowboy
Well obviously. But the fact that almost every retailer has moved the date to later than Sept 30th means that they've been told something by Vivendi.



No, they don't. If they're getting close to finishing (like, within a few days) they probably have a good idea of when it will be gold, but that still doesn't mean they determine when it will be in stores, that's the publisher's job. And if they're NOT within a few days of gold yet, their estimates could be off by months easily.



Gabe as not said "Sept 30th" to anyone since July. And Doug Lombardi is their MARKETING GUY. Rule #1, NEVER trust a marketing guy, regardless of who he works for. ;)



No, twice. Once at ECTS from Doug and Greg, and once in an interview with Doug. Unless you want to count the time in July where the Vivendi PR chick tried to pretend that Vivendi didn't just leak their doubts about Sept to the gaming press and the retailers.

So on one hand we have the developer's marketing guy telling people 'Sept', and on the other hand we have the publisher telling the retailers 'Not Sept'. There appears to be a lack of clarity between Valve and Vivendi, and I don't know who to believe. The only thing that's clear is that none of us know when it will be released.

Has Doug said any other release date? No. Dude, its true that we don't know when it will be released( NONE OF US), but I trust Valve to meet their release date. We just have to believe in Valve and their promise.
 
I remember someone emaling Gabe and asking him about the November date and he said "I dont know where they got that date from" something like that.
 
Thank you, Tork. A blow to you unbelieving fools. Gabe would now better than anyone.
 
The reason that I think Fragmaster is an idiot is because people that say something as fact, and say it loudly, almost always are. Nothing is certain, if he just said he thinks the game will be delayed then it would be fine. However, he has to get on his high horse and spout off various observations as irrefutable facts.
 
Love your avatar, Mcnugget. Just watched a Family Guy episode on my comp. Best TV show ever!
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Love your avatar, Mcnugget. Just watched a Family Guy episode on my comp. Best TV show ever!
THAT IS SO ****ING TRUE! :cheers:
 
Originally posted by Tork
I remember someone emaling Gabe and asking him about the November date and he said "I dont know where they got that date from" something like that.

Not knowing where retailers got a November date from is hardly a confirmation of a September date. If Gabe thought it was going to be released in March of next year he would've said the same thing.
 
Originally posted by dscowboy
Not knowing where retailers got a November date from is hardly a confirmation of a September date. If Gabe thought it was going to be released in March of next year he would've said the same thing.

He would've, but at the time the November date was the only delay date that was even remotely consistant, a number of retailers had the same date.

You'll have to remember, that before ECTS retailers had random dates and then after ECTS retailers have random dates. The delay was disproved at ECTS so retailers don't have good track records for reliable Half Life 2 release dates.
 
From the PHL article...

Actually, the delay is a great boon to you guys just starting at college, since the original Half-Life is a big part of the reason why I flunked out of school. Ooops.

he flunked out of college. because of a computer game. wow.

that's the best rebuttal yet. don't pay any attention to the guy...if he's right, so what you'll get to play hl2 eventually...if he's wrong...yay hl2 9/30.

he just wants lots of hits for his website so he can get better advertising revenues :\
 
Originally posted by Maskirovka
From the PHL article...



he flunked out of college. because of a computer game. wow.

that's the best rebuttal yet. don't pay any attention to the guy...if he's right, so what you'll get to play hl2 eventually...if he's wrong...yay hl2 9/30.

he just wants lots of hits for his website so he can get better advertising revenues :\

I start my first quarter of college on the 22nd...I'll probably flunk out cause of Half-Life 2.
 
I certainly hope someone stabs Fragmaster in the eye.:rolleyes:

SYLLABICATION: stub·born
PRONUNCIATION: stubern
ADJECTIVE: Inflected forms: stub·born·er, stub·born·est
1a. Unreasonably, often perversely unyielding; bullheaded. b. Firmly resolved or determined; resolute. See synonyms at obstinate.
2. Characterized by perseverance; persistent.
3. Fragmaster
 
I start on the 23rd :) But I wouldnt study with or without HL2. :) People have been telling me my whole life Id have to study to do well eventually, theyve been wrong so far. When I get to working on my masters maybe.
 
Well said Feath.

I think he wrote it because he has to dress like Gordon and give out free copies on the streets if he loses.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Valve and think they have some incredibly talented people working there. I'm just not that big of a fan of their marketing, communication, and online community relations abilities."

WTF is Fragmaster talking about. Which game company is the ONLY one who ANSWER FANMAIL!!!!
Seriously, he could've done better than that.

And I don't care what he says, he basically IS accusing Lombardi a lier.
 
Originally posted by Javert
Well said Feath.

I think he wrote it because he has to dress like Gordon and give out free copies on the streets if he loses.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Valve and think they have some incredibly talented people working there. I'm just not that big of a fan of their marketing, communication, and online community relations abilities."

WTF is Fragmaster talking about. Which game company is the ONLY one who ANSWER FANMAIL!!!!
Seriously, he could've done better than that.

And I don't care what he says, he basically IS accusing Lombardi a lier.

Man, Fragmaster is such a freaking f*g. Sure hes sorta funny, but hell, have you seen him? You should watch his video called Doom House... omg you will laugh ur ass off at him. http://www.somethingawful.com/download.php?file=movies/sa/doom house 2000.wmv

He is the "cop"...ugh
 
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