Half-Life2 Source a fake? Publicity Stunt?

[Nanobot2k]

Well..today I decided to look into this and see what was going with this whole "hl2-source-leak-fiasco"...so I loaded up one of the numerous p2p filesharing programs and came across a download, after an hour or so of looking at the code I believe that it is fake. My reasons being as followed:

• 
  * First of all DirectX 8 and 9 libraries are there. Why include both libraries if DirectX 9 contains all the libraries of DirectXx 8?
  * Second there are large chunks of quake 2 sources stucked in it.
  * CopyRights are of "Dan Silva" this guy made Deluxe Paint for crying out loud.
  * Valve is asking for help ??? Valve is a professional programming company. They don't need help tracing this down from the "community".
  * OpenGl is still there... Everywhere actually and isn't HL2 supposed to be DirectX9 ?? Yea, though so...
  * gl_warp.cpp is a copy of quake 2 source code...
  * The "maxsdk" folder suggests a 3DStudio Max Licence. Valve uses XSI and not 3DS Max.
  * The source code is a mess, *.h's without their *.cpp's.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Athlon7]

Mods? This is stupidity kiddo.

 

[Nanobot2k]

Mods what, I simply established the fact that it *could* be fake. I mean honestly...do you really expect opengl files in a game which is based on DirectX?

 

[bmb]

no... end of story....

 

[Blair]

Originally posted by Nanobot2k
Mods what, I simply established the fact that it *could* be fake. I mean honestly...do you really expect opengl files in a game which is based on DirectX?

HL1 supported opengl... Why would they not support it when they are trying to reach as many PC configrations as possible.

 

[Nanobot2k]

If you rememeber the presentation that was done in powerpoint by valve a few weeks ago only directx was mentioned...nothing about opengl.

 

[Blair]

Originally posted by Nanobot2k
If you rememeber the presentation that was done in powerpoint by valve a few weeks ago only directx was mentioned...nothing about opengl.

Valve has yet to comment on soundcard compatibility. I suppose, with me using your theroy as a basis, that HL2 will not have sound.

 

[InsertNameHere]

Yeah, I'm with Nano. There are chances that what he downloaded was fake, but if it's not, something smells fishy. I don't think Valve would do it for a publicity stunt, especially since they have the FBI involved now, but it's definitely odd.

 

[Nanobot2k]

Originally posted by Sn7
Valve has yet to comment on soundcard compatibility. I suppose, with me using your theroy as a basis, that HL2 will not have sound.

Er, the whole point of the presention was to show that nvidia cards cannot handle the game as well as ati cards...so why would they leave out such an important aspect...opengl from the presention? Yea...i though so.

 

[Blair]

Originally posted by Nanobot2k
Er, the whole point of the presention was to show that nvidia cards cannot handle the game as well as ati cards...so why would they leave out such an important aspect...opengl from the presention? Yea...i though so.

Perhaps because they're trying to show which card can run HL2 at full detail.. Nvidia can still run just as good as ati, only the detail will be sacrificed.

HL2 is based on Directx9, therefore they would want to show off D9 features. I'm sure it's taken for common knowledge that opengl would be supported on older cards.

 

[Nanobot2k]

There has been absolutely no mention about opengl at ALL. Also, that isn't the only reason I think it is fake..care to also explain why quake2 files are in there also

 

[OCybrManO]

I remember someone saying specifically that HL2 does not use OpenGL.
It requires a card that runs DX6 or a later version.
Gabe probably had the HL source (which would explain the Quake stuff), or at least some of it, in with the HL2 source.

They probably don't want to alienate all of the people that use 3DS Max... so I would think that they would release 3DS Max plugins as well as the XSI stuff.

Source of this magnitude is bound to have some inconsistencies... like .h's without .cpp's and that doesn't matter as long as it all compiles (many people say it does).

... and I have just received confimation from Valve that HL2 does indeed have sound... they said "we already talked about some of the cool things we are doing with sound" and that "sound has been in all of the videos so far".

(I made up that last one...)

 

[Nanobot2k]

Originally posted by OCybrManO
They probably don't want to alienate all of the people that use 3DS Max... so I would think that they would release 3DS Max plugins as well as the XSI stuff.

3d max is a 3d modeling software, the end user does not need to have it installed.

 

[silent]

I don't like to admit it seeing as i vehemently oppose repetative threads, but if this guy's right, he's got a point. What do you say to something like this?

 

[nsxownzme]

Originally posted by silent
I don't like to admit it seeing as i vehemently oppose repetative threads, but if this guy's right, he's got a point. What do you say to something like this?

Nothing, Gabe said it was real.

 

[mannyfresh027]

hey dipstooge this wasnt just HL2 source code, it had HL1 stuff too, and HL1 was built on the Q2 engine

 

[Bedwetting Type]

Guys, just because something was inside those folders doesn't mean it's being used for HL2. Remember that HL2 isn't the only project being worked on at the moment. Having all the source code stored in one spot makes perfect sense to me...

 

[Nanobot2k]

Originally posted by mannyfresh027
hey dipstooge this wasnt just HL2 source code, it had HL1 stuff too, and HL1 was built on the Q2 engine

How about addressing someone without acting like an asshole? It's because of people like you I stopped playing HL/CS. Anyways back on topic now...heres a quote taken from the post "I need the assistance of the community"...the following was posted by Gabe.

Yes, the source code that has been posted is the HL-2 source code.

So as you can see..Hl2 not HL it's self

 

[Grey]

Originally posted by Nanobot2k

• 
  * First of all DirectX 8 and 9 libraries are there. Why include both libraries if DirectX 9 contains all the libraries of DirectXx 8?
  * Second there are large chunks of quake 2 sources stucked in it.
  * CopyRights are of "Dan Silva" this guy made Deluxe Paint for crying out loud.
  * Valve is asking for help ??? Valve is a professional programming company. They don't need help tracing this down from the "community".
  * OpenGl is still there... Everywhere actually and isn't HL2 supposed to be DirectX9 ?? Yea, though so...
  * gl_warp.cpp is a copy of quake 2 source code...
  * The "maxsdk" folder suggests a 3DStudio Max Licence. Valve uses XSI and not 3DS Max.
  * The source code is a mess, *.h's without their *.cpp's.

Just my 2 cents.

and my 2 cents...

The DX8/DX9 thing is a moot point... I'm sure they were left there while they were transitioning. I haven't deleted my DX8 SDK either...

Two birds with one stone: The source includes the Half-life engine code, the Half-life game code, and Counter Strike game code therefore Quake and OpenGL pieces are going to be here and there...

Max SDK - they've said they would release tools for Max and Maya, but SI would be the most supported 3d app...

The source code is a mess? .h with out .cpp? Do you know anything about C/C++? There are times while programming where you'd have one with out the other... Think of it this way, sometimes you don't need a source file beyond what's in the header (you can include code there too, especially inlined functions in classes) - and sometimes you don't need a header for your source file.

Whats wrong with asking for help?

[edit]

WHoa lots of replies while I was typing mine, I'm obviously slow :hmph: hehe.

 

[rootbin]

haha. learn how to code, then make criticisms on .h's without .cpp's rofl.

and second, the opengl/quake stuff is because in case you haven't noticed, half-life 1 is in there too.

 

[Athlon7]

Yep rootbin.

 

[FISKER_Q]

Oh well i wanted to 0wn him. But there's only leftovers now

 

[gavin]

lol

 

[strangelove]

sigh...

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD!

In order to understand why certain things are in the source, you need to understand a few things about large scale software development.

NOTE: I haven't seen the source itself, nor will I both out of respect for valve and to prevent contamination, but I did see the early screenshots of the various folders and batch files for running the builds (the top level dir structure is the most telling here...)

The first and MOST important thing to remember is, when approaching a redesign of some piece of software, when you know in advance a large amount of R&D is going to take place over several years, you do NOT throw away everything and start from scratch. Quite the opposite, you start with the current version and start adding on to it, replacing subsystems here and there, and gradually, over months and years, you replace the pieces that need replacing. Frequently, some old bits will remain. Working on an 'all new engine' does NOT mean you throw out the old code completely. We have code in one project that has been untouched for over 5 years. (if it isn't broken don't fix it...don't reinvent the wheel...etc.) This is how Carmack started work on the Doom3 renderer. He took Quake3, gutted out the rendering code, and rewrote that bit. If memory serves the filesystem in quake has been touched very little since Quake 1, as an example.

When developing a set of applications that all share code dependencies (game a and game b share the same file system for example), you do NOT include the source for that shared component in seperate source for both games. Instead, you have a library of shared components, and these are often composed of .dll files. This makes it much easier to update the shared components. This explains a lot of the organization.

Now, valve has been steadily moving everything over to steam, and trying to unify much of their network architecture, so that the online experience for all valve games can be brought under one umbrella (steam.) This includes HL1, CS, DoD, HL2, TF2, etc. While I'm sure this isn't the only shared component all the games utilize, this is just one example of why ALL of valve's games would be included in the source tree (all the folders and build batch files are there for all of the games, I have no idea how much of the source is included outside of HL2, but clearly the full source tree IS capable of building exe files for any of the current and upcoming valve products.)

So, with that boring preamble out of the way...let's look at the original points....

* First of all DirectX 8 and 9 libraries are there. Why include both libraries if DirectX 9 contains all the libraries of DirectXx 8?

Easy, DX9 didn't exist when valve started work on the engine, plus there are known bugs with the DX9 sdk. A large part of the dev cycle for the Source engine had to use DX8. It makes perfect sense that it would be in the source tree still (especially since they are dealing with serious DX9 performance issues on various cards, and likely wanting to test if bugs are specific to the DX9 api)

* Second there are large chunks of quake 2 sources stucked in it.

The HL1 engine is a bit of Quake 1, a smattering of Quake 2, and a ton of new code. It doesn't surprise me at all that the original Quake files are still there, since the source tree is obviously meant to contain the HL1 source as well. Even if it isn't in use any more it STILL wouldn't surprise me, since legacy files can persist in a source tree for a LONG time after they are no longer in use. Among other things this makes it much easier to do source rollbacks, to test bugs in older builds, etc.

* CopyRights are of "Dan Silva" this guy made Deluxe Paint for crying out loud.

Dan Silva was also one of the 3 principle coders behind 3dsMax, and has written a TON of code that is publicly available (just look in the 3dsMax sdk sample files.) The fact that some of his code is in there is no surprise, since until about 1 year ago, valve used 3dsmax for all their modelling and animation, and only switched to XSI after running into major pipeline issues with 3dsMax.

* Valve is asking for help ??? Valve is a professional programming company. They don't need help tracing this down from the "community".

I suggest you do a little research on past cybercrime cases and how they were solved (HINT - many of them are caught by their peers, or in this case, 'the community'.)

* OpenGl is still there... Everywhere actually and isn't HL2 supposed to be DirectX9 ?? Yea, though so...

From what several people have posted, there is very obviously a DX9 renderer in the source code, all the vertex and even more important, fragment (pixel) shaders and such are there...thousands and thousands of lines of it. If there were no DX9 renderer in the source code, then this point might have merit, but since there IS a DX9 renderer in the code, those openGL files are just a curiosity (or likely part of the dependency for building HL1.) In a project with over 7,000 files, do NOT think every file is still in use, or that leaving them is sloppy. It happens all the time.

* gl_warp.cpp is a copy of quake 2 source code...

HL1 engine is based on Q1/Q2, and the source tree can apparently build HL1 if all the code is present (don't know if it is, everyone is focused on the HL2 part of it.) It's either part of the HL1 build process, or just legacy code for reference.

* The "maxsdk" folder suggests a 3DStudio Max Licence. Valve uses XSI and not 3DS Max.

They only switched to XSI about a year ago, and according to the valve presentation at the SoftImage users group meeting at Siggraph, it was a gradual changeover mandated by pipeline problems. The artists fell in love with XSI however, and they ended up converting all their assets over from 3dsMax to XSI. At the 4 year mark into a 5 year production cycle, making this switch is a HUGE risk, and there is NO WAY the coders would just yank 3dsMax dependencies (in the engine or tools.) The tree does allow building of the tools valve uses, and I assume this includes the 3dsMax import/export tools. This is a non-mystery.

* The source code is a mess, *.h's without their *.cpp's.

This is VERY common. Most SDK's are just header files and libraries, with few or no .cpp files. In C++, programmers frequently create what are known as pure virtual classes, which are entities that have no real code attached to them. In fact, SDK's are often composed of nothing but these pure virtual interfaces. This is one of the great strengths of C++, the ability to create abstract objects.

From what I'm hearing, the code is very well organized, and properly commented (not too much, not too little.) so your opinion here isn't shared by others.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I hope it helps clarify a few things (probably not)

(PS, this is all moot, since in the stolen code there is code from other companies that most definately is NOT public domain, such as Havok and RadGameTools. Valve couldn't release that code as a 'publicity stunt' even if they wanted to do so, otherwise they'd get sued into oblivion.)

 

[-Yo-]

Originally posted by mannyfresh027
hey dipstooge this wasnt just HL2 source code, it had HL1 stuff too, and HL1 was built on the Q2 engine

false, HL1 is built on Quake1 engine. They took only few lines of quake2 source.

 

[Hexx]

*looks at Nanobot2k's 2 cents, picks them up. Then throws them in the mud* Foolish

 

[gavin]

whoa. strangelove is the ONLY headcrab that is capable of exploding someones head. holy shit did u just owned him. O: how do u know all that?

wow. just wow.

 

[rec]

Moved to Rumors & Speculation.

 

[MrMethane]

Re: sigh...

Originally posted by strangelove <------What he said
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD!
<snip>

 

[Flar30n]

Nano,

Gabe confirmed that it was real source, and since the FBI is involved, and everything is pointing to that really, I dont think I'm going to doubt it.

Good observations though, but unfortunately, IMO, you're mistaken.

 

[FrodO]

MHH you promesed a lot of people that you had a game to sale at a certain date, lets say 30 sept or oct, that date passed or its close and you know you wont be able to realese the game, the worst thing is you taken a lot of pre orders for a program no one will be able to use in more than 6 months (HL2 its said to be realeased on april of 04 because of all the "leak" ), mhhh what to do??? ok lets realease something to the general public and lets tell them its the source code, lets have them blabbering abut it for a few moths to see if they forgette that they should already beein playing the game we promised.

Thats what i think it happened. Wich game developer would put a code in a server that has inet acces???
Steam works like hell, you are thinking of charging to play a multiplayer game that was "free", and you dont meet the releasing date of the game you said it was going to be realesed = leak some "source code" and have the HL comunnity (and people how is waiting to get profit from selling the game,etc) speak about anything else but the delay of the game.

 

[Manty]

I think 99.9% of the poeple looking at the source code don't have a fu**ing clue what their looking at