Hating Bush Is Not a Winning Ticket

DreamThrall

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From a Newsweek Op/Ed by Johnathan Alter

Aug. 2 issue - Linda Ronstadt had a little problem at the Aladdin Casino in Las Vegas last week. After she dedicated her song "Desperado" to Michael Moore and described him as "an American hero," patrons began booing and heading for the exits, with some throwing their drinks against her posters on the way out. Of course, most others in the hall that night and in the country as a whole can't understand why the committed partisans on both sides are so rabid, and they hardly find it entertaining. Don't be surprised to read this fall about barroom brawls over the finer points of Iraq policy, which may be better than fighting about football or "What you lookin' at?" but hardly represents the civil debate we had reason to expect in the first presidential election since September 11.

All that negative karma carries a price. President Bush's campaign has decided to scale back for now on his misleading attack ads on John Kerry because they aren't working as well as expected. The Kerry ads on Bush have not been nearly as nasty, but surrogates have cranked up the rhetoric to the point where the Kerry high command is warning speakers at the Boston convention to watch the personal jabs. It won't be easy. On a conference call with reporters last week, former senator Max Cleland, who will introduce Kerry's acceptance speech, referred to Bush's telling a "pack of lies," which is now standard fare, even for moderate Democrats. Such talk may sound satisfying to their Blue State friends, but it could cost them the presidency.

You can understand the Democrats' anger. Since at least 1988, Republicans have simply been better street fighters, from crushing Michael Dukakis as an unpatriotic sissy on phony issues like the Pledge of Allegiance to relentlessly trashing Bill Clinton to turning Al Gore's extremely minor misstatements into "evidence" that he was a monumental liar.

But it was the aftermath of the two biggest events of the last five years that lit the fuse. First came the disputed 2000 election, when Bush received half a million fewer votes. Even if the new president had moved to the center, where the voters had clearly indicated their sentiments lay, hard feelings would have lingered. But the man who vowed to "change the tone" in Washington and pursue a "humble" foreign policy proceeded to govern as if he had carried 49 states. Without a mandate, he rammed through huge tax cuts for the rich and forced right-wing judges onto the bench. He sold out consumers to the pharmaceutical, insurance and energy industries. The period following 9/11 was even worse. Bush squandered a rare moment of national unity by failing to ask for any shared sacrifice to confront the crisis, then exploited homeland security and Iraq to skewer Democrats in the 2002 midterm elections. Going to war in Iraq under false pretenses and botching the occupation were only the latest sources of outrage.

But making Whoopi Goldberg mad doesn't win close elections. In the 1998 midterms, the Clinton haters went so far over the top that the Democrats won in November. Bush haters may generate a similar backlash this time. Right now about 45 percent are unshakably in each camp. The battle is over the remaining 10 percent, which is disproportionately Hispanic and not greatly interested in politics. "Fahrenheit 9/11" is being seen widely enough that it could tip some independents toward Kerry. But a larger number feel a certain comfort with Bush—if they didn't, they would already be against him. They figure he got them through nearly three years since 9/11 without a terrorist attack on American soil. If they fire him they will do so reluctantly, more in sorrow that he hasn't met a high enough standard than in anger over his abuses.

To put it in fairy-tale terms, comparing Bush to Pinocchio is a loser; swing voters don't want to parse his statements for lies and don't like being told they were duped. It makes them feel bad about themselves. A more resonant fairy tale this year is the one about the little boy who cried wolf. Bush says we are more secure, but by crying wolf over Iraq and WMD, he will make it harder the next time to rouse world opinion against real nuclear wolves in Iran, North Korea or elsewhere. And by alienating allies, he has made it harder to root out Al Qaeda.

There is so much material to work with that Democrats don't have to become hyperventilating Moorecrats. Calling Bush an evil liar tied up in conspiracies involving the Carlyle Group, Afghan pipelines and the like is both preposterous and counterproductive. Better to calmly explain how Bush & Co. may look like grown-ups but have made one incompetent decision after another, even as they dodge accountability, kowtow to extremists in their party and (especially relevant for undecided business people) harm Brand U.S.A. throughout the world. Just don't try making that case in a casino.
 
Hating america has become a fashion statement more than a political statement now adays.
 
Sane eiditorials upon politics are few and far betweent these days.
 
Dalamari said:
Hating america has become a fashion statement more than a political statement now adays.

Sorry, what does that have to do with this?
 
CyberSh33p said:
you didn't read a lick of that, did you?
honestly no, but I was only kidding around... politics doesnt interest me, especially American politics.

I was alluding to "bush" as in.... bush *cough* bush. :P
didnt mean any disrespect to the original poster, was just messing around.
 
Mr. Redundant said:
honestly no, but I was only kidding around... politics doesnt interest me, especially American politics.

I was alluding to "bush" as in.... bush *cough* bush. :P
didnt mean any disrespect to the original poster, was just messing around.
didn't catch my 'lick' remark then did you? ;)

yeah.. politics are overlal bland. out of my forum please, I want nudie pics and forum games
 
CyberSh33p said:
didn't catch my 'lick' remark then did you? ;)

yeah.. politics are overlal bland. out of my forum please, I want nudie pics and forum games
wow Im blind... thats fantastic
 
Gentlemen, if you'd like to discuss, please do... otherwise stop hijacking my thread. Thanks.
 
"Linda Ronstadt had a little problem at the Aladdin Casino in Las Vegas last week. After she dedicated her song "Desperado" to Michael Moore and described him as "an American hero," patrons began booing and heading for the exits, with some throwing their drinks against her posters on the way out."

I cant remember the last time I saw this kind of behaviour ...at least pre-9/11. It's disgusting and embarrassing that people behave like this over a few spoken words; it's not like she was preaching hate.
It seems to me that the war has galvanised the common american into taking a side ...Bush's "you're either for us or aginst us" speech just fanned the flames almost giving liscence to americans to turn on anyone who didnt agree with the war in iraq. Bi-partisan politics is almost an impossibility considering the current climate of hate and distrust.

It's kind of disappointing that the main issues out of this election are that Bush is dumb and Kerry is wishwashy. People tend to focus on be-littleing their opponents instead of tackling the issues. I think for the most part people are very uninformed when it comes to the actual issues because the respective candidates have spent more time attacking each other than laying down campaign platforms.


go read btw dreamthrall
 
CptStern said:
It's kind of disappointing that the main issues out of this election are that Bush is dumb and Kerry is wishwashy. People tend to focus on be-littleing their opponents instead of tackling the issues. I think for the most part people are very uninformed when it comes to the actual issues because the respective candidates have spent more time attacking each other than laying down campaign platforms.

It couldn't have been stated more clearly, my friend.
 
thanks

so do you think all this infighting and finger pointing will lead to more people voting? I mean just to make sure the "other guy" doesnt win? I'm all for more people voting (only 40 something % of americans voted last time around) but I'm afraid blind faith and supporting your side no matter what will actually work against the candidates. I'm afraid it'll come down to who is hated least and that to me is slap in the face to what democracy is supposed to be.
 
CptStern said:
I cant remember the last time I saw this kind of behaviour ...at least pre-9/11. It's disgusting and embarrassing that people behave like this over a few spoken words; it's not like she was preaching hate.

Yeah, remember "Freedom Fries"? When France and Canada refused to help invade Iraq because of the dearth of evidence, there was lots of anger and childish stuff like that.

Now, it turns out that we were exactly right. "Freedom Fries" be damned.

I'm absolutely certain that there's a massive segment of the US population that still carries that mindset. That the war in Iraq was in no way misguided and unjustified. They support it simply because they believe the president to be infallible He's the pres after all, so he must be, right?

Many people's reactions to 9/11 was to put absolute trust in their country. American flags, eagles, the statue of liberty. They're combatting the terrorists' steadfast anti-american sentiment with a steadfast pro-american sentiment and there's nothing wrong with that.

The problem comes from the fact that, like the eagle and the flag, the president is often interpreted also a symbol of America.
While flags were being bought in bulk after 9/11, Bush's approval ratings shot from the worst ever to the best. Although that universal support for Bush has now become significantly less universal, there are still people who are confident that their best method for fighting terrorists is to support the president in all his decisions.

It's for this reason that there's so much animosity towards Michael Moore. His movie is distinctly anti-president, but many people declare it to be anti-american because they see the president and the country as one and the same. There's pretty much nothing anti-american about the movie. Every single point presented is concerned with showing that George Bush's personal motivations and bad policy may be hurting the country.

But, some people treat Moore's movie as if he spat on the flag. Throwing drinks at posters, booing singers, etc.

As a Canadian looking in from the outside (through lotsa CNN), I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would logically vote for Bush knowing what we do about the huge mistake that the war in Iraq was. Maybe some religious folk bent on keeping gays out of marriage, or the rich who'd love some tax cuts account for some of the numbers, but there's no way that they fill the 45% in support of Bush.

I'd argue that the 45% is mostly the huge group of people in America who are still convinced that the Iraq war helped to stop Bin Laden and that they just haven't found Saddam's WMDs yet.

In Canada's most recent election, there was a similar problem. None of the candidates were very good. The Liberals were embroiled in multiple scandals, but the Conservatives and NDP were still pretty much just Ralph Nader in comparison. It was the choice of the lesser of the evils, and in the end, we had a minority gov. Nobody really 'won'.
I see that happening to the US too.
 
That's the problem with having a political national figurehead. That's why it's good that we have a Queen.

:)
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Yeah, remember "Freedom Fries"? When France and Canada refused to help invade Iraq because of the dearth of evidence, there was lots of anger and childish stuff like that.

ya france was a target but there wasnt all that much fallout over canada not joining ...I always felt americans grumbled under their breaths over canada's decision but we're well liked so it wasnt that big of a deal


Mechagodzilla said:
I'm absolutely certain that there's a massive segment of the US population that still carries that mindset. That the war in Iraq was in no way misguided and unjustified. They support it simply because they believe the president to be infallible He's the pres after all, so he must be, right?

Many people's reactions to 9/11 was to put absolute trust in their country. American flags, eagles, the statue of liberty. They're combatting the terrorists' steadfast anti-american sentiment with a steadfast pro-american sentiment and there's nothing wrong with that.

it was McCarthy-ism all over again ..the rabid followers got out of hand and went on a witch hunt it even trickled down to the common man ...I cant tell you the amount of times I've been called "anti-american" because I've never supported the war


Mechagodzilla said:
As a Canadian looking in from the outside (through lotsa CNN), I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would logically vote for Bush knowing what we do about the huge mistake that the war in Iraq was. Maybe some religious folk bent on keeping gays out of marriage, or the rich who'd love some tax cuts account for some of the numbers, but there's no way that they fill the 45% in support of Bush.


I'm in the same boat. I have american cousins and they wont even talk about the war as soon as I say I was agianst it
 
I don't hate Bush for the simple fact that everyone does, I hate him because he has taken my country (the UK) into the war in Iraq, despite a majority of the public not wanting to. His war has cost friends of mine their son, and I'm not mighty sure why that had to happen.
 
I saw Farenheit 9/11, and while I enjoyed it and I felt it brought up some good points, I was also very uncomfortable watching it. I didn't like how it made fun the president. You see, in the US, most of us our proud of our system. While I don't like the man, and certainly won't be voting for him, I still a sense of duty towards him.. because he is the leader of my nation.

And do you want to know why Bush has a large segment of support. Well, some people are just plain conservative. They always vote conservatively. Others don't like Kerry, and they are using their foolish strategy of voting for "lesser evil".
 
not getting into this cause there will be so much i'll overlook, and i'll make myself look like an ass... or a democrat :p
 
thehunter1320 said:
not getting into this cause there will be so much i'll overlook, and i'll make myself look like an ass... or a democrat :p

or a donkey... uhm... wait... :dork:
 
funny CptStern, you're Canadian but you tend to get into the political debates about why Bush sucks all the time...interesting...
i guess i just find it interesting that someone else is concerned about the campaign of another country. I'm generally informed about what goes on in other countries, just maybe not THAT informed....

The Democrats will try and make their message positive because they believe that they'll lose if they just attack Bush. The Republicans not so much.
 
Dalamari said:
Hating america has become a fashion statement more than a political statement now adays.

bagarg :rolleyes: ,, Over and over again thats all I hear,.. if you dont like Bush .. you dont like America some how..? neanderthals

and people saying republicans this democrats that, use your common sense, where's the moralistic thought here, moral's are more important, the population of the world is more important than a megalomaniac's reasoning for war.

what Kangy said :) im the same

*shakes fist at megalomaniac capitalists*.

misinformation, confusion and scare tactic's are perfect when you want to get people to back you up for a primarily unjustified war, why anyone would want to do that is anyone's guess.. but is that really so far fetched, this is a capitalist's world, with some evil gits around., remember bush is just a pawn;).
 
I live within an hour of the US border so we tend to get inundated with american news. Also the war in iraq is a global issue, it affects us all indirectly
 
Adidajs said:
funny CptStern, you're Canadian but you tend to get into the political debates about why Bush sucks all the time...interesting...
i guess i just find it interesting that someone else is concerned about the campaign of another country. I'm generally informed about what goes on in other countries, just maybe not THAT informed....

The Democrats will try and make their message positive because they believe that they'll lose if they just attack Bush. The Republicans not so much.
Its normal that people are interested with American politics, since it has an effect on everyone in the world. Let's not lie, America is the most powerful nation in the world today. For the last four years, the american government has been taking this power for granted. If it does not change, America's power in the world will diminish, just like its image during the time of Goerge W. Bush.
 
nicrd said:
Its normal that people are interested with American politics, since it has an effect on everyone in the world. Let's not lie, America is the most powerful nation in the world today. For the last four years, the american government has been taking this power for granted. If it does not change, America's power in the world will diminish, just like its image during the time of Goerge W. Bush.

and lets not Forget where America started, back here in the good old United Kingdom,

obviously it wasnt called that back then :P
 
clarky003 said:
bagarg :rolleyes: ,, Over and over again thats all I hear,.. if you dont like Bush .. you dont like America some how..?

In my opinion, that's the problem. 9/11 created an environment where you just couldn't question the president. While that has waned quite a bit, that mindset is still widespread, and I think George Bush is exploiting it.

He certainly did with the Iraq war. All he had to do was imply that Al Queda was in Iraq, and he automatically gained near-universal support to attack a small sovereign nation.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
In my opinion, that's the problem. 9/11 created an environment where you just couldn't question the president. While that has waned quite a bit, that mindset is still widespread, and I think George Bush is exploiting it.

He certainly did with the Iraq war. All he had to do was imply that Al Queda was in Iraq, and he automatically gained near-universal support.

lol, that sir, is exactley it, ;)

what can I say to people..,umm... dont be so gullable, he's clearly manipulating people to continue his/other people in power's cause for whatever reason that is now, :rolleyes: .
 
Well, while I'm not commenting on how Bush handled it...even in the Clinton administration they connected Al Queda with Iraq and WMD. They just didn't do anything. It isn't a Bush only issue.
 
Asus said:
Well, while I'm not commenting on how Bush handled it...even in the Clinton administration they connected Al Queda with Iraq and WMD. They just didn't do anything. It isn't a Bush only issue.

I agree with that, but bush did announce the connection with Saddam.. and the presence of troops in Iraq are more stern than in Afaghanistan...

even though, Afghanistan is where Al Queda are based. lol,

so he went next door instead on false intelligence I might add.. so what is he still doing there? cleaning the mess up? :x people are still being killed.
 
Asus said:
Well, while I'm not commenting on how Bush handled it...even in the Clinton administration they connected Al Queda with Iraq and WMD. They just didn't do anything. It isn't a Bush only issue.

The main thing is that Clinton didn't invade Iraq though. The entire concept of the pre-emptive strike is the problem here.

Bush has invaded a country that posed basically no risk to the US. Because they might have posed a risk eventually. Of course, half the nations of the world could fit that description. He overthrew their government and forced it to become democratic.
Forced them to be democratic. Hypocrisy or Irony?

Canada could invade Greenland and force it to becone Liberal because Greenland might one day get a nuke and bomb Moose Jaw.
But we won't. because that's stupid.

When it comes down to the basics of it, that's what happened in Iraq.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
The main thing is that Clinton didn't invade Iraq though. The entire concept of the pre-emptive strike is the problem here.

Bush has invaded a country that posed basically no risk to the US. Because they might have posed a risk eventually. Of course, half the nations of the world could fit that description. He overthrew their government and forced it to become democratic.
Forced them to be democratic. Hypocrisy or Irony?

Canada could invade Greenland and force it to becone Liberal because Greenland might one day get a nuke and bomb Moose Jaw.
But we won't. because that's stupid.

When it comes down to the basics of it, that's what happened in Iraq.

thats so true, I wish tony blair would just own upto that.

he's so lieing through his front teeth right now, to cover Labours ass.
 
clarky003 said:
and lets not Forget where America started, back here in the good old United Kingdom,

obviously it wasnt called that back then :P

America started in America, thanks.
 
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