HDR could be really cool!

[Sorze]

I just got an idea...

I recently watched the DX9 rooftop binkvideo, and it occured to me that hdr(high-dynamic-range) rendering could be really cool..

Imagine a strategic game, or a mod where you're a samurai part of a huge battle, and it actually matters if the sun is in your armies eyes, or the enemies'.

Or the classic flashlight, maybe you could actually blind people with the flashlight? Just point it in their eyes and quickly get over there and humiliate with the crowbar ?

What do you think, and can you come up with other unthought of ideas in the source engine?

 

[Non-Sequitur]

I don't think either of those examples you posted would have anything to do with HDR...

HDR will still be really cool.

 

[nc17]

You would not use hdr for that sort of effect, but it woud be good for a sun reflection of of something like a sniper scope in realistic war games

That way snipers would have to be smart and either stay under cover or face away from the sun to not give away their position so easily

 

[Sorze]

What?

Isn't that HDR when he looks through the holes in the ceiling, and it's all white n stuff, because it's too light? What's that called then, when there are really really powerful lightsources, like the sun? I've heard Source (in dx9 atleast) simulates that in some ways, like getting a bit blinded..?

 

[The Dark Elf]

What?

Isn't that HDR when he looks through the holes in the ceiling, and it's all white n stuff, because it's too light? What's that called then, when there are really really powerful lightsources, like the sun? I've heard Source (in dx9 atleast) simulates that in some ways, like getting a bit blinded..?

HDR - High Dynamic Range

Regular images have a top brightness of 255,255,255 (pure white) HDR can go higher than that, but without a HDR display you can't see the difference with the naked eye as the display shows it to you as normal 24bit RGB values. Internally though its visible, radiosity calculations can see it, reflections can see it and the bloom effect can make use of it. So while you can't see the full range yourself, you can see its result on the environment around it. Reflections look more realistic, radiosity/GI lighting looks more realistic. And the bloom effect surrounds only certain brightnesses, which is why the bright sky will glow like that and a white texture wont. But visually the brightest you'll see is RGB all at 255.

A HDR capable monitor, displaying a real HDR image of the sun. Would likely burn your eyes out, and probably burn itself out too

That glow effect isn't anything to do with HDR, its just an extra effect added to DX9 that happens to work nicely with HDR and appears after a certain brightness causing the bloom or glow/halo effect to appear around the brightest points

There's a demo of it in realtime by Paul Debevec http://www.debevec.org/ I don't know if its on his site but if you want to learn more about HDRI he's the best one to listen to.

What your thinking of doing, could be done. It could be faked before, many flight sims have things like that. I'm sure with a bit of work you could pull it off nicely in the Source engine though.

Theoretically you'd simply give it a bright HDR image, and the engine would handle the glow around it. There's probably more you could do to increase that but thats the general jist of it I reckon.

A little OT, the above HDR demo I mention, also has motion blur and DOF.. There's no reason for HL2 not to have those then.. Damn would that game look good with that in it. I'll happily wait until December if they promise to put that in :E

 

[Sorze]

Admit it Fenric, you ripped that post from an earlier thread!
well, still was informative..

Well, it was kind of what I imagined then. Of course it can be faked, I mean cs has flashbangs, even if the blinding effect is simple as hell..

I just thought Source could do cool stuff like getting blinded with no customisation, except making some lightsources really powerful.

Well, Fenric.. I really gotta try mapping some for HL1 now, Hammer is quite similar for hl1 and hl2 right?
Man, being a oneman mod team is kind of hard.. I can model some, skin some, and maybe fix some sounds... but I gotta try mapping now too ...

Btw, this isn't a post asking for help, I'm going to do it all myself, at least for the first build

Edit: NO Fenric!! December is *not* fine dammit!! Give me the game already, motion blur and similar could just be added in updates afterwards for christ's sake...

Edit2: Is HDR DX9 btw? I'm on a Geforce 4 ti 4600, so dx8 for me. I guess I'm asking you Fenric, you're the guy with all the answers...

 

[Sprafa]

«I certify that I am not a national or a resident of Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Serbia, Taliban-controlled portions of Afghanistan or any other country subject to U.S. trade sanctions, nor, to the best of my knowledge, have I been designated a Specially Designated National, Blocked Person, or otherwise been denied export-related privileges by the United States Government.»

This is weird!
You can't download HDR from http://www.debevec.org/HDRShop/ if you are from these countries...

 

[The Dark Elf]

Admit it Fenric, you ripped that post from an earlier thread!
well, still was informative..

Well, it was kind of what I imagined then. Of course it can be faked, I mean cs has flashbangs, even if the blinding effect is simple as hell..

I just thought Source could do cool stuff like getting blinded with no customisation, except making some lightsources really powerful.

Well, Fenric.. I really gotta try mapping some for HL1 now, Hammer is quite similar for hl1 and hl2 right?
Man, being a oneman mod team is kind of hard.. I can model some, skin some, and maybe fix some sounds... but I gotta try mapping now too ...

Btw, this isn't a post asking for help, I'm going to do it all myself, at least for the first build

Edit: NO Fenric!! December is *not* fine dammit!! Give me the game already, motion blur and similar could just be added in updates afterwards for christ's sake...

Edit2: Is HDR DX9 btw? I'm on a Geforce 4 ti 4600, so dx8 for me. I guess I'm asking you Fenric, you're the guy with all the answers...

I probably just repeated what I've said before concerning HDRI
-
Nowt wrong with being a one man team. If you succeed, even if you fail but try, you walk away with a great deal more knowledge about everything involved than you would if you were just a small part of a larger team. Puts you in a better position for running a larger team later on. Cause you'll know first hand what everyone will need.


.. not only that its more fun, you don't have anyone crying cause you wouldn't put their idea's in. And your not relying on people who could drop what their doing and vanish without warning.


Oh and you get all the glory :E

-

And December is fine! *runs and hides*

 

[The Dark Elf]

«I certify that I am not a national or a resident of Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Serbia, Taliban-controlled portions of Afghanistan or any other country subject to U.S. trade sanctions, nor, to the best of my knowledge, have I been designated a Specially Designated National, Blocked Person, or otherwise been denied export-related privileges by the United States Government.»

This is weird!
You can't download HDR from http://www.debevec.org/HDRShop/ if you are from these countries...

Not as weird as it might seem. A lot of people do that for one reason or another. Some companies have to if there's laws preventing your product from being exporting to a certain country thats currently banned. In some cases its also to do with Tax reasons too and world sales and stuff like that I think too.

something like that anyway *shrugs*

 

[Incitatus]

HL2's HDR implementation is something completely different from what Debevec does. Debevec's paper was about using HDRI's or image based lighting containing high dynamic range information. HL2 does not use image based lighting, though HDR is still used but the ultra realistic lighting which you get with HDRI lighting is not there. That's at least my understanding I've been using HDRI for a while, it's vewwy vewwy good for certain things less so for others.

 

[The Dark Elf]

HL2's HDR implementation is something completely different from what Debevec does. Debevec's paper was about using HDRI's or image based lighting containing high dynamic range information. HL2 does not use image based lighting, though HDR is still used but the ultra realistic lighting which you get with HDRI lighting is not there. That's at least my understanding I've been using HDRI for a while, it's vewwy vewwy good for certain things less so for others.

He talks about High Dynamic Range, its the same principal. For anyone that wants to learn about HDR anything he's the first place to look since he was one of, if not the person who originally developed it. He knows more about it than most.

 

[Sorze]

I probably just repeated what I've said before concerning HDRI

Yeah, I think you ripped your own post..

Nowt wrong with being a one man team. If you succeed, even if you fail but try, you walk away with a great deal more knowledge about everything involved than you would if you were just a small part of a larger team. Puts you in a better position for running a larger team later on. Cause you'll know first hand what everyone will need.

.. not only that its more fun, you don't have anyone crying cause you wouldn't put their idea's in. And your not relying on people who could drop what their doing and vanish without warning.


Oh and you get all the glory

Yeah! you know what it's *really* about! Glory! :afro:

Anyways, yeah.. this is a learning experience for me right now, not sure if it's going to go anywhere..

Btw, aren't you serious about game developing Fenric, I think I read something you posted once about owning a studio or something..? Or am I making stuff up ??

And December is fine! *runs and hides*

It's not!! It really isn't! I'm a future buyer, and I say it is'nt! or something...

Dammit! You know you're not in a good bargaining position if you're willing to buy someones product, nomatter when it comes out, and no matter what they charge you for it... :dozey:



Btw, the soundtrack for Kill Bill is awesome !

 

[Incitatus]

He talks about High Dynamic Range, its the same principal. For anyone that wants to learn about HDR anything he's the first place to look since he was one of, if not the person who originally developed it. He knows more about it than most.

yeah ok, granted still most of the info on that site is about HDRI, anyway same basic principle

:afro: