Hezbollah, Palestine vs Israel

[Loc-Dog]

In a showdown, wich side do you think would win. Israel has better technology and training, but so did Sovijet versus Afghanistan. And Sovijet still lost.

This is not a politics thread.

 

[63]

It isn't about technology.

 

[DreadLord]

Israel..

 

[ríomhaire]

The countries they get loans off to pay for the war.

 

[Uriel]

The Terminator, aka Short Recoil

 

[Shakermaker]

Insurgencies are never beaten, just subdued. Hezbollah would win.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Due to the fact that Hezbollah, at its core, is a small highly professional, highly trained and well armed force I predict that there will be no "winners", the Isrealis will never root them all out. And they dont have the firepower to win against the Isrealis

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Israel.

Insurgencies are never beaten, just subdued. Hezbollah would win.

You have to occupy to produce 'insurgency.' Israel will obliterate any opposition, walk through, and quickly go back home. They've no interest in sitting around in Lebanon.

 

[Baserape>]

Jesus Christ superstar=win

 

[Shakermaker]

You have to occupy to produce 'insurgency.' Israel will obliterate any opposition, walk through, and quickly go back home. They've no interest in sitting around in Lebanon.

Semantics. What I meant is that you can't win from guerrillas. You can kill 500, arrest 1000 and leave but in time they will all come back again.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Semantics. What I meant is that you can't win from guerrillas. You can kill 500, arrest 1000 and leave but in time they will all come back again.

If this is true please explain the British victories in Malaya, Kenya and Borneo against guerrilla forces.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Semantics. What I meant is that you can't win from guerrillas. You can kill 500, arrest 1000 and leave but in time they will all come back again.

You can defeat guerilla warfare, the Israelis are experts at it- they've militarily smashed any Palestinian assaults on the Israeli military. The only Palestinians assaults that do real damage are sneaking bombs on civillian Israeli buses, etc.

 

[gick]

You can defeat guerilla warfare, the Israelis are experts at it- they've militarily smashed any Palestinian assaults on the Israeli military.

Yet it still goes on. Israel can easily win on the tactical level, but it will be virtually impossible for them to win in the long term, as for every Palestinian militant they kill, another will take his place. Both sides are extremely determined, and incapable (or unwilling) to wipe the other out entirely - this is going to go on for the forseeable future, I fear.

If this is true please explain the British victories in Malaya, Kenya and Borneo against guerrilla forces.

AFAIK, in these situations, the guerillas lacked the kind of widespread support from the local population that is enjoyed by the Palestinian militants and Hezbollah.

 

[Shakermaker]

If this is true please explain the British victories in Malaya, Kenya and Borneo against guerrilla forces.

Well, the Brits aren't in Malaya, Kenya and Borneo anymore, are they? Victories over guerrillas are always temporary. Look at Afghanistan (both for the Russkies in the 80s and the western forces now), Iraq, Somalia, Vietnam, Indonesia (the Dutch got their asses kicked both in 1948 and in 1962), etc etc.

You can defeat guerilla warfare, the Israelis are experts at it- they've militarily smashed any Palestinian assaults on the Israeli military. The only Palestinians assaults that do real damage are sneaking bombs on civillian Israeli buses, etc.

The Palestinians are still fighting the Israeli's despite all their 'victories'. Israel can win battles but they can't win the war.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yet it still goes on. Israel can easily win on the tactical level, but it will be virtually impossible for them to win in the long term, as for every Palestinian militant they kill, another will take his place. Both sides are extremely determined, and incapable (or unwilling) to wipe the other out entirely - this is going to go on for the forseeable future, I fear.

It doesn't work that way when you actually DO start to run out of men to 'take the place'

Something the terrorists are going to end up dealing with but not Israel, as Israel's losses are MINIMAL. Terrorist losses are HUGE. It's not a classic insurgency/guerilla example. It's a special case where Israel, the conventional force IS equipped to take on an anti guerilla role and can do it well and effectively, and IS experienced in doing so. They've been doing it since birth.

AFAIK, in these situations, the guerillas lacked the kind of widespread support from the local population that is enjoyed by the Palestinian militants and Hezbollah.

Israeli support of home forces is the need for their SURVIVAL. Survival instinct outweighs grudge instinct. The Israelis have the upper hand in this area, too.

 

[99.vikram]

Uhh...Israel? Their Helicopter force is one of the best in the world, and Soviet lost to the Mujahideen only because America funded and armed them.

 

[15357]

Yeah.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Russians also got their butts kicked in Chechnya.

 

[The Monkey]

I'm afraid the biggest losers will be the Lebanese civilians.

 

[Shakermaker]

I'm afraid the biggest losers will be the Lebanese civilians.

QFT

 

[99.vikram]

Hell, who cares about 'em civvies? /sarcasm

 

[15357]

The 5th Middle East Conflict has begun.

 

[The Monkey]

Another 21 civilians were killed by Isreal today.

 

[15357]

I have a question: doesn't bombing Lebanon mean that there is now a multinational war going on?

 

[The Monkey]

I have a question: doesn't bombing Lebanon mean that there is now a multinational war going on?

I've wondered that too. Why doesn't the Lebanese army defend its country? According to wiki, it's 75,000 men strong, which may not be enough to defeat Israel, but certainly enough to put up with a fight.

 

[15357]

They seem to be using only self-propelled flak tanks, but not missles. They're gonna take a lot more damage if they keep on not defending themselves.