hl2 and normal maps

D

danydrunk

Guest
can you apply normal maps to character in hl2 ? i know the game uses them for certain parts, like windows, rocks and other stuff, and I think I read somewhere that the kind of normal mapping they used cannot be used in characters......is this true? if so, what do you think are the chances for a future upgrade to use normal maps in characters, a la unreal 3 engine !!
 
yes you can use normal maps on characters, models, brushes etc. can't on sprites though.

Most visible use of normal maps on characters in HL2 is the vortigaunt. Though they all appear to use them even when its not noticable (the way the lighting looks on them with normal maps improves because the lighting thinks there's more surface detail and it looks smoother, or something.)
 
You can apply normal mapping to characters, but this will only be visible in DX9 mode. Everything below that won't display them.

Characters with normal mapping (among others)

- Gman (a lovely 2048x2048 sheet :D)
- Alyx
- Mossman
- Breen
- Barney

Source is very subtle with these kind of effects, which I like.

An example of where normal mapping is very noticable:
(came across it somewhere here)
http://up2.fastuploads.com/gmconstruct00059ts.jpg
 
PvtRyan said:
You can apply normal mapping to characters, but this will only be visible in DX9 mode. Everything below that won't display them.

Characters with normal mapping (among others)

- Gman (a lovely 2048x2048 sheet :D)
- Alyx
- Mossman
- Breen
- Barney

Source is very subtle with these kind of effects, which I like.

An example of where normal mapping is very noticable:
(came across it somewhere here)
http://up2.fastuploads.com/gmconstruct00059ts.jpg
Click to expand...
ooooh that looks purdy, shame mods arent making much use of it :(
 
yeah I know you need directx9 videocard to watch normal maps, but I never noticed them....

By looking at that image of gman It makes me wonder why not a lot of people have talked about them for hl2......maybe not a lot of people know about them?? is there any official documentation of normal maps for source? how to apply them, reccomended uses etc? Im interested in reading about the use of normal mapping for character.
 
I use a console command to show normal maps and you will find the whole game is pretty much a normal map in most areas it is. I forget the command mat or cl or sv _normal i think.
 
PvtRyan said:
- Gman (a lovely 2048x2048 sheet :D)
Click to expand...
The Gman is 2048x2048?!?!?!

- Alyx
- Mossman
- Breen
- Barney
Click to expand...

Alyx, Barney and Breen I've all seen in action (Kleiner as well), but Dr. Mossman?! I find that extremely hard to believe...
 
I find this thread interesting, but I don't know what the hell you're talking about, someone mind explaining?
 
Cypher19 said:
The Gman is 2048x2048?!?!?!



Alyx, Barney and Breen I've all seen in action (Kleiner as well), but Dr. Mossman?! I find that extremely hard to believe...
Click to expand...

Yup, to both. The Gman normal map is a nice full uncompressed 2048x2048 sheet weighing in at 16 MB. And that's merely his head.

Mossman does have a normal map, I saw it. It's visible in game too.
 
Yup, to both. The Gman normal map is a nice full uncompressed 2048x2048 sheet weighing in at 16 MB. And that's merely his head.
Click to expand...
Maybe thats a reason for the long load times...
 
Minerel said:
Maybe thats a reason for the long load times...
Click to expand...
I would hope, and gonna assume the 2048x2048 version is _only_ used for the intro and maybe outro. If its used for the gman seen in the distance during the game then its a huge waste of resources.
 
The Dark Elf said:
I would hope, and gonna assume the 2048x2048 version is _only_ used for the intro and maybe outro. If its used for the gman seen in the distance during the game then its a huge waste of resources.
Click to expand...

There's a high and lowres version of the Gman. The intro one is the high :)
Low version is normal mapped too though :E
 
do nromal maps self-shadow in source? it looks like it.

Looka at antlions, they seem to have self shadowing but it could just be wirdness.
 
FireCrack said:
do nromal maps self-shadow in source? it looks like it.

Looka at antlions, they seem to have self shadowing but it could just be wirdness.
Click to expand...

No, the normal maps in Source do not self-shadow because you also need a heightmap for the texture as well. (However, I don't know the exact details on how to implement that, nor does it interest me a whole lot, because I think the performance drop wouldn't justify the IQ gain)
 
Since no one listens to me and uses mat_normalmap I have pictures of things that are normal mapped for you! :angry: Note how everything is prett much normal mapped! Everything in the blue shows a normal map.

d1_town_010006.jpg


d1_town_010005.jpg


d1_town_010004.jpg


d1_town_010003.jpg


d1_town_010002.jpg


d1_eli_010001.jpg
 
Why is it that Doom3's normal mapping is so much more noticeable? Is it just used more?
 
jondyfun said:
Why is it that Doom3's normal mapping is so much more noticeable? Is it just used more?
Click to expand...
it's cause all Doom 3 has is normal mapping, try turning them off to see just how shitty it is without normal maps, HL2 on the other hand still has lots of detail without normal mapping
 
jondyfun said:
Why is it that Doom3's normal mapping is so much more noticeable? Is it just used more?
Click to expand...
It's just the way the two engines work. You could probably fiddle Source to display its normal maps more like D3's, or the other way around. Also the different types of lighting have an effect on how the final result looks.
 
It's mainly because Doom3 has such high-contrast lighting (which is mostly due to artwork, not programming). Also, because the lighting is so much more dynamic, it becomes much more noticable.
 
Normal maps by their nature are self shadowing... technically they are simply "prerenedered" lighting txtures.
 
^no


Cypher19 said:
No, the normal maps in Source do not self-shadow because you also need a heightmap for the texture as well. (However, I don't know the exact details on how to implement that, nor does it interest me a whole lot, because I think the performance drop wouldn't justify the IQ gain)
Click to expand...

^no, a heightmap can be easily generateed from a normal map, I dont think that computers have IQ (unless that stands for somthing else, wich it probably does)
 
FireCrack said:
^no




^no, a heightmap can be easily generateed from a normal map, I dont think that computers have IQ (unless that stands for somthing else, wich it probably does)
Click to expand...

Image Quality?
 
FireCrack said:
^no, a heightmap can be easily generateed from a normal map, I dont think that computers have IQ (unless that stands for somthing else, wich it probably does)
Click to expand...

IQ, in reference to graphics, means image quality.

And if you can make the heightmap from a normal map go for it. Let me know how the extra memory bandwidth used and extra calculations work out for you.
 
Ok, let me know how the extra memory usage and disk space usage goes for you.

the "extra calculations" would be quite breif actualy. Every program that used to use heightmaps for bumpmapping would do it the other way, converting into normal datat before rendering.
 
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