HL2 water doesn't fall out of boxes? Not true.

Adam

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(Was originaly meant as a reply to the Pro's anc Con's of DoomIII vs Half-Life 2, but it's scope grew beyond what I expected.)

Attention non mappers of the Half-Life engine! Stop complaining about water not falling out of a box when you shoot it. This is not true, the fact is that this effect is up to the level designer. Half-Life 1 had areas where water leaked out of broken pipes and it looks just as real as the surrounding water. Just because the physics engine can't emulate the effect real time, doesnt mean mappers cant 'script' the event.

Since you will undoubtedly have very very few instances where one would find himself with a wooden crate filled with water, of the single time a mapper actualy does make one, the burden of scripting the water effect would be well worth the effort, since he would only have to do it once. Infact, once the level designer created the effect, he could create a prefab of the entire sequence for later use. And guess what? The average player can't tell the difference between scripted special effects and physicaly emulated ones unless he was specificaly saving, triggering the effect, then reloading and trying it again, inspecting every aspect of it. Which is a complete waste of time, when they should be trying to complete the level designers creation as intended rather than debug it.

If anyone here remembers my HL2_TechDemo.bsp map I released on PlanetHalf-Life.com a while ago, you'd notice how well I scripted events that emulated physics seen in Half-Life 2 using the HL1 engine. Now imagine (besides all the already existing havok physics) what I could emulate with an engine as powerful and dynamic as Source! To think, one day I would be mocking Half-Life 3 with intuitive scripting work in a Source map.

The potential of Half-Life 1 just recently met its maximum. It took 5 years for modders to push Half-Life 1 to its limits (And even still theres more that can be done). I've made a 14 meg map that goes beyond what HL1 supports by custom and complex compiler settings myself. Half-Life 2 is not even out yet, and it blows away Half-Life 1. The future looks bright for the HL community and its developers. Many challenges, less annoying limits. Are you ready? Good, now end the box and water complaints. (Please??? :) )
 
Have you posted this before? Because I'm getting a strong sense of Deja-vu.
 
Adam for all that is GOOD, plz learn the UT Editor and emulate the HL2 techdemo map you made with the ut2003 engine!

im just messin' , unless you were gonna do it ;-)
 
Dude... the scripting aspect of it has been obvious since the question surfaced. It's always been a well-known fact that water drippin' can be simulated using good scripting, but people were really only wondering if the almighty Valve Software had actually given us some real-time water physics, but most of us probably didn't *expect* it to be included due to the most likley incredible difficulty of coding it. Besides... I'd rather have HL2 as it is on Sept. 30th than wait another year for them to develop some nifty water effect for my lazy ass so I wouldn't have to script it during the map-makin' process :-P
 
Then there isn't any room for HL3. It needs to make some source improvements too. (if you catch my drift :borg: )
 
Btw, an example for water pouring out

tf_snowfarm_base2.jpg


taken from the task force mod
 
yea, thats not like an actualy mass of water flowing out.
 
But what does that matter?
If it looks and acts like water, there can only be so much of a difference.
 
This is true that it can be scripted, but the thing is it would be much better if it came out of the box that way. Certain things are simply just too hard to script, and even when done well don't look as good as having it dynamic. This isn't a knock against the Source engine by any means, I don't think any engine can do this. But scripting is much more time consuming and less impressive.
 
=( source won't have real time water physics? oh well, their most definitly working on that in Half Life 3...and it's going to be awsome!
 
I see there are some mappers here who are complaining about the difficulty of scripting the water event. Guys, none of us here have made a HL2 map as of yet. We do not know how advanced the input and output controls of the Source engine that we now have actualy is. Also, as I said before, once someone makes the effect, he can create a prefab of the entire script for posting on the net. Any mappers who otherwise might find it too hard to work with Sources complex entitie scripts could download the prefab and insert it seemlessly into their own map.

Also, some people are saying that they knew scripting would work, but that they wanted Havok to handle the effect instead. I realize that, but remember, the average player doesn't know the difference between real time, and scripted, unless he was explicitly looking for the differences. Yes, it would be nice for Havok to handle it for you, but it doesn't and the player of your maps does not have to know this fact. They should only assume it based on your elite map editing skills.

Alot of pro vs con half-life2 vs whatever-game discussions have someone indicating the water effect as a con, when even if you couldn't script it (Which is not the case), no other game has that level of water physics either. It can't be a con compared to the other game if the challenging game doesn't have that as it's pro.
 
Thanks for starting the thread Adam, these complaints about 'spillage' have really been annoying me as well. Fluid dynamics are incredibly complex and the number of variables that would need to be modelled in order for this to work correctly under a range of circumstances is overwhelming. There is no engine that could currrently handle this. Frankly, I'm sure the first time this is attempted as part of an integral physics model it simply won't look right and we will still be better off scripting.

The technology will come, but not for quite a while. If you include this as a con for HL2 be sure to include it as a con for every other game on the market or in production!
 
I've made a 14 meg map that goes beyond what HL1 supports by custom and complex compiler settings myself.

Im interested to know more about this map Adam. Is it available?
 
so what. its easy to make it LOOK like water. FaceOff (a ut2003 mod released on saturday) has barrels, that, when shot, leak wine.

its easy to do stuff like that with scripting
 
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