HL2's depiction of violence

[f|uke]

Inspired by the 'how do you turn blood off?' thread..

My biggest complaint with HL2 is the depiciton of violence. The fact is, its unrealisticly soft. HL1 had one of the most realistic depictions of violence to date. There was evisceration (disembowlment), blood, and yet it was not over the top. I was certain that HL2 would follow in these footsteps.

Understand, it is not that I want to see organs or people suffering.
Its that there are horrible, gruesome consequences for violent actions.
To deny this is to deny reality.
And so for the sake of realism, emersion, and intensity, I believe violence should be depicted in a realistic maner.

(This of course does not mean the exclusion of ragdoll. Ragdoll is huge and should remain.)

And its not just the visuals. One of my strongest memorys from the game is when resistance NPCs caught on fire. And while she said 'No, no no', it sounded like she was scolding a dog, not screaming in horror. After all the work VALVe did on facial animations to make the characters appear more realistic, this undid ALL of that.


Vote and discuss!

(Note to modders: Adding this would be a worthy and popular project!)

 

[Hazar]

I'd rather see a realistic depiction; evisceration, dismemberment, and emotional distress.



but there should definetly be a setting where you can adjust it.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

I think you are slightly sick wanting all those blood/guts etc, but dont worry, i feel the same More blood and mutilating corpses always makes me feel like ive had a BIG impact there, rather than them dying the same way all the time. I want hit leg to fall off and land in a bath, his intestines to fall out and a dog run over and eat them, and his head to fly off and catch it with the manipulator. I loved it in SOF2 doing this, even though it was a bit too much for some, but some advanced violence i would have loved. I guess the game wouldnt have been the age rating it was if i got my way But perhaps modders will do a little something. Btw i will love anyone who gives me a shin bone to run around and hit people with

edit: yay poll! Organs everywhere!

 

[Scotchy]

IMHO there's alot of GOOD that realistically gory/distressing games can do for people at large. Too often people play games where they can kill and kill and kill withotu consequences (emotional ones). A game that makes the characters feel so real has a unique opportunity to do a little minor social engineering. If your very human characters die very realistically... well you see where I'm going. You get ALOT more impact from that. You might even feel regret, sadness, or guilt even for doing ehat you have done.

And of course on the other hand it's great for a gripping storyline... nothing pisses m,e off mroe in games/movies/books than when a favorite character dies a horrible death (not killed by a blimp or explodes into sparkles... like gets shot in the skull unceremoniously ((see ron pearlman's character in Enemy at the Gates)) ). It's a great motivator... it can create apprehension, sadness, andger, fear... a whole gamut of m,ixed STRONGer emotions that a more detached from "gritty ol' RL" game can.

 

[Venmoch]

Its more the way its portrayed. Operation Flashpoint had the ability to be fairly shocking even though the amount of blood in it was minimal.

Such things as looking at the guy next to you, hearing a very familliar "viiiipppp!" and watching him fall to the ground told so much without having large amounts of blood. Or what about the first time you inspect a blown up tank to see the crew hanging lifeless out the hatches.

Violence doesn't need to be gorey to be shocking.

 

[FoB_Ed]

Inspired by the 'how do you turn blood off?' thread..

HL1 had one of the most realistic depictions of violence to date. There was evisceration (disembowlment), blood, and yet it was not over the top. I was certain that HL2 would follow in these footsteps.

You're wrong. Go try SoF2 for some real gore. There was no evisceration in HL1! There was just some blood splatters and gibbing.

 

[Ren.182]

Operation Flashpoint did have that war-like feeling. Like you said, that sound "Viiiipppp...Ugh...*dies*". It did have impact.

But i like SOF2's gore too. Same with HL1.

Half-Life 2 would have been good if we saw more gibs, rather than just ant-lions and Strider Gibs...

 

[f|uke]

IMHO there's alot of GOOD that realistically gory/distressing games can do for people at large. Too often people play games where they can kill and kill and kill withotu consequences (emotional ones). A game that makes the characters feel so real has a unique opportunity to do a little minor social engineering. If your very human characters die very realistically... well you see where I'm going. You get ALOT more impact from that. You might even feel regret, sadness, or guilt even for doing ehat you have done.

I agree wholeheartedly. A soft depiction of violence is akin to dropping an anvil on Wile E Coyote's head. It gives younger ones the impression that violence is not so bad. And one thing HL2 was missing big time was that emotional impact.

You're wrong. Go try SoF2 for some real gore. There was no evisceration in HL1! There was just some blood splatters and gibbing.

HL1 predated SoF2, so 'to date', my comment is correct. And there was eviscration in HL1. Play HL1DM, use the gluon gun, and you will see intestines / other organs.

 

[ButtHoleMcGee]

Mortal Kombat limbs pls. I want to see twenty arms shoot out of one person.

 

[Cypher19]

I just want one thing and one thing only:gibs and body parts falling off (with some effort of course, like spinning a combine REALLY fast with the super physcannon, or with a rocket)

 

[bliink]

ulta-violence ("realistic" ?) is just a novelty for me (SOF2 being an example), novelty, but still fun hehe... but its not needed to make a game good, like with OpFlashpoint, death wasnt emphasised as dramatically as other games, and so when someone dies, its alot more sudden and final, with a strong impact (there one second crawling next to you, zip, dead)

But yeah, I'd download a violence mod "for the hell of it"

 

[Hectic Glenn]

lol you built a good point bliink till you said you downloaded a violence mod btw where can i find that? :angel:

 

[winnipegartist]

I have absolutely no problem with violence in games or movies for that matter. They all have ratings. Its the parents that buy M(17+) rated games for their under17 y.o. kids that I have the problem with.

 

[ratm9200]

It seems to me that with the graphics as realisitc as they are in modern games, over-the-top dismemberment and gibbing would be too sickening. The blood splatters are enough for me.

 

[bliink]

lol you built a good point bliink till you said you downloaded a violence mod btw where can i find that? :angel:

No, I said, I would download one if one was made, not that I already had one

 

[Eunoch]

i was dissapointed with the violence in hl2, it makes it seem almost playful. there should be a stage when u shoot a body to bits so much that u cant stand to go on because it falls apart so realistically. that would have an impact, and u wouldnt see all the people running around shooting dead bodies (i admit, it IS hilarious)
hl2 needs more gore, but i do not think that hl1 had any gore at all, u shoot a guy and he falls apart into little lumps that might as well be rocks and not flesh

 

[bliink]

Don't forget, its about the game, not the violence.
Valve are selling a plot and gameplay, not a violence simulator.
Sure, violence can add to gameplay, but not the gameplay valve developed.

But, as the valve motto goes: "It would be an easy mod!"

 

[f|uke]

Don't forget, its about the game, not the violence.

No distinction. It is a violent game.

Valve are selling a plot and gameplay, not a violence simulator.

It is a violence simulator (as well as a driving simulator and a physics simulator and a crowbar smashy smashy simulator, etc). Sure they're selling plot too, but its all a part of the package.

Sure, violence can add to gameplay, but not the gameplay valve developed.

The lack of emotional impact definitly detracted from the gameplay VALVe developed. Hense, a more realistic depiction of violence would certainly add to the gameplay VALVe developed.

IMO

 

[bliink]

No distinction. It is a violent game.It is a violence simulator (as well as a driving simulator and a physics simulator and a crowbar smashy smashy simulator, etc). Sure they're selling plot too, but its all a part of the package.The lack of emotional impact definitly detracted from the gameplay VALVe developed. Hense, a more realistic depiction of violence would certainly add to the gameplay VALVe developed.

IMO

dont forget, they wanted a good esrb rating (theres no point at which you shoot something with a human face in there), and that the focus of the game wasnt on the violence, they were not trying to draw attention to it like SOF2 did- with SOF2 it was a selling point, it was written on the box!
But yeah, just wait for the mods... its certainly all possible.

 

[Hazar]

Has any game gotten an 'A' rating for violence only?

As far as I know, none have; so the esrb rating is really out of it (remember how valve said they weren't sacrificing anything with the 'T' rating thing came up?)

 

[Plug]

Did nobody find any of the violence shocking at parts?

Like someone mentioned about operation flashpoint, being shot from a distance... How about the part where citizens were being executed in the underground railway section? that was terrible! makes you hate the combine.

Also the headcrab shelling, the first one that drops down kills two citizens that are running for cover towards you...

And lets not forget zombies...

I think valve went in a different, and respectable direction with their violence. There were many more shock and horror sections from their mere characters and settings, ie torched corpses on sticks, bloody pussy pools of liquid with a shot up body, zombies... ZOMBIES, and the blood itself is pretty graphic on it's own.

 

[Thadius Dean]

I WANT GIBS HOLY CRAP DO I WANT THEM!!!

I just miss them so much ;(

 

[Mechagodzilla]

That the weird thing, because gibs are mega-unrealistic.

Ragdolls and mild blood spatter are what would really happen in reality.
There's the idea that the amount of gunshots taken would result in blood everywhere, but unless the bullets somehow hit both your wrists or something, that's not really going to happen.
Animals also don't leave much trace of blood behind when they kill their prey.

As for explosions, the most that would really happen would be the loss of a limb, not having your head fly off one direction while a section of intestine flies the other. Your organs would be somewhat liquefied, but nothing really more than that. They all but definitely wouldn't leave your body though.
You'd need to be hit with something like twenty grenades simultaneously for that amount of damage to happen.

So the violence in Half-life 2 actually probably the closest to real life in games nowadays.
I think the reason people would like to see more is that they are expecting more of a cinematic level of violence.
We're probably desensitized.

 

[bliink]

The next level of gore will come when we can get real fluid dynamics

 

[Kazin]

Operation Flashpoint did have that war-like feeling. Like you said, that sound "Viiiipppp...Ugh...*dies*". It did have impact.

But i like SOF2's gore too. Same with HL1.

Half-Life 2 would have been good if we saw more gibs, rather than just ant-lions and Strider Gibs...

If you had the gibs then whats the point of ragdoll physics. I think that's the purpose normal humans/combine weren't gibbed.

 

[Milkman]

Its more the way its portrayed. Operation Flashpoint had the ability to be fairly shocking even though the amount of blood in it was minimal.

Such things as looking at the guy next to you, hearing a very familliar "viiiipppp!" and watching him fall to the ground told so much without having large amounts of blood. Or what about the first time you inspect a blown up tank to see the crew hanging lifeless out the hatches.

Violence doesn't need to be gorey to be shocking.

Yeah flashpoint does an excellent job, although there are mods out now that add bloodsprays and bleeding. Back in the 1.10 days I was playing the Ambush Mission and took the farmhouse, I went over to a medic who I thought was prone but had a huge hole in his back, and his face had this very eery look on it, something you would expect a deadman to look like.

 

[lordoftheroot]

i would have like a little bit more. I would have liked arms being torn off from a grenade or something. But i really would not like them to go over board with it though. Like i just went to go see Assault on Precinct 13 that was too much (head shots every where, people getting sliced in the neck with hunting knifes, and a person getting beating bats and then stabbed with a sword). So in the end i like realism but i dont want to Saw off someones head with some metal wire (IE Manhunt).

 

[magictorch]

That the weird thing, because gibs are mega-unrealistic.

Ragdolls and mild blood spatter are what would really happen in reality.
There's the idea that the amount of gunshots taken would result in blood everywhere, but unless the bullets somehow hit both your wrists or something, that's not really going to happen.
Animals also don't leave much trace of blood behind when they kill their prey.

As for explosions, the most that would really happen would be the loss of a limb, not having your head fly off one direction while a section of intestine flies the other. Your organs would be somewhat liquefied, but nothing really more than that. They all but definitely wouldn't leave your body though.
You'd need to be hit with something like twenty grenades simultaneously for that amount of damage to happen.

So the violence in Half-life 2 actually probably the closest to real life in games nowadays.
I think the reason people would like to see more is that they are expecting more of a cinematic level of violence.
We're probably desensitized.

I agree with you wholeheartedly - although I don't think the violence is meant to be realistic in HL2, I think it hits the nail on the head.

It takes quite a lot of force to blow up a body. A grenade landing at your feet wouldn't necessarily blow off the whole of your leg, even below the knee (though a landmine would because that's what it's designed for).

To me, seeing a corpse flying through the air because of an explosion has more of an effect on me than seeing it crumble into a pile of (unsinged) internal organs. The former is more realistic imo.

Besides, I don't think the storyline for HL2 promotes senseless violence.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

i am with Fluke on this one, i loved the way players died in HL1 with dismemberment and such.
i don't have a problem with the way they have it currently but for me it was sort of a "let-down" because as Fluke mentioned, dying in HL1 wasn't anything over-the-top.. it was simple yet nasty at the same time and i felt HL2 did not have that.

 

[FireCrack]

That the weird thing, because gibs are mega-unrealistic.

The main reason of wich being that in real life people dont normaly take direct hits from HEAT rtockets orget munched by barnacles.


Plus when someone gets hit by a grenade or somthing, legs are blown off, bodies are contorted. Not ubeer "Every part in the body gibs" but more simple "leg gibbed, rest intact"


In conclusion: i like gibs.


THE END!

 

[bliink]

The main reason of wich being that in real life people dont normaly take direct hits from HEAT rtockets orget munched by barnacles.

High explosive anti tank rounds would probably penetrate someone without detonating, but if one did explode, all that would be left would be some tiny bits of a body, but it wouldnt be gib-chunks.. it would be soggy, sticky crap, yet, smouldering.

 

[FireCrack]

penetrate without detonating eh?

I didnt hink so...


Anyways, i want that... utter vaporisation!

 

[Danimal]

The next level of gore will come when we can get real fluid dynamics

Agreed. 100% realistic water effects are the pinnacle in gaming, unfourtanatley, you will need a computer that probably won't be available for years to come :hmph:

But with realistic water comes realistic blood :naughty:

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I'd rather see realistic SOFII style dimemberment (with physics of coures) although cpu intensive this would certainly be very cool

 

[Danimal]

My computer woudn't be able to handle that, sham-- I mean babyheadcrab.

 

[Tynan]

Its that there are horrible, gruesome consequences for violent actions.
To deny this is to deny reality.

To play a video game is to deny reality. HL2 is in no way realistic, and the entire gameworld bears only the slightest connection to the real world.

HL2 is designed to be fun. If screaming, suffering, dying people enhanced the experience for most, they'd be in there. They don't, and they aren't. If you want to see suffering in video games I'd say go play Soldier of Fortune.

In fact HL2 is significantly more bloody than real life in many ways. Go see some videos of real shootouts, there aren't sprays of blood all over the walls behind where people got shot.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

High explosive anti tank rounds would probably penetrate someone without detonating, but if one did explode, all that would be left would be some tiny bits of a body, but it wouldnt be gib-chunks.. it would be soggy, sticky crap, yet, smouldering.

How on gods green.. er red earth would you know this

 

[Sid Burn]

Well, I would like realism... will make HL2 much interesting to play.

 

[FireCrack]

How on gods green.. er red earth would you know this

because the AT in HEAT stand for Anti Tank

 

[f|uke]

I think the reason people would like to see more is that they are expecting more of a cinematic level of violence.

Not at all. When someone is shot, they have holes in their body. Grenades dont nessiarily blow off limbs, but they do often remove chunks of flesh. And when someone is mortally wounded, they scream and cry. This is real. I do not want hollywood. I want real.

If you had the gibs then whats the point of ragdoll physics. I think that's the purpose normal humans/combine weren't gibbed.

I dont want fake gibbing, but still, you can have both.

i am with Fluke on this one.

Dr. Freeman is my homeboy.

HL2 is designed to be fun. If screaming, suffering, dying people enhanced the experience for most, they'd be in there. They don't, and they aren't.

VALVe doesnt always know best. Maybe you should check the results of the poll.

The two most intense movies I have ever seen are Resivior Dogs and Saving Private Ryan. These movies made a serious emotional impact on me because they had real characters and depicted violence in an honestly brutal manner. (If youre wondering what I mean about Resivior Dogs, I'm reffering to the scene in the car with Mr Orange. I could barely watch that). The combination of the two really make this hit home. And if youve spent any time in an Emergency Room (as I have), you'll know that this is the stuff of real life drama.

I dont want the sugar pill. Give me real life. Give me characters with emotion, who are made of blood and guts, and want to live.