How big will lvls be

I

Impulse147

Newbie
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
495
Reaction score
0
Has valve said anything about how big a MP or SP lvl. could be in HL2(like compared to HL1)?
 
A million miles!


Well no one knows anything official about HL2 MP so that's as good an answer as any other you'll get.
 
Hmmm I saw a computerized drawing where it showed that a level could be alot bigger than in hl1... I think it was like 8 times bigger.
 
Considering at least one MP game mode is sure to include vehicles I'm going to believe you selas.
 
Well hopefully there huge like i imagined. I hope the MP will be obj. based, like one side is combine and the other is freedom fighters and your job as the FF is to sabotage the cobbine stuff and u start out on like the first map and once u complete the obj.'s on the first map u move to the next map and complete the obj.'s on it. so its kinda like a big campaign or something and its made so if the combine win it goes to a different map than the one that would be next if the FF won, and if the maps are as big as i imagine ,each map could be 1-2 blocks big and can support multi-story buildings and and the combine have striders and walls and towers set up to defend against the FF with and the FF have buggys with rockets mounted on em. and the maps would be like dryed up shipyards,sewers,countryside,inside the combine citadel, also the Zen aliens would be Computer controlled and they would show up and attack from time to time.
 
If you want that...MAKE IT.

Mods are the answer.
 
well thats how i imagined it would be, and i don't know anything about that stuff and i've always wanted to learn, but really never knew where to start.all i know about is web design.
 
Well I imagined that all the players would fly around on clouds and shoot rainbow dust at each other but that doesn't mean that's what it's going to be like.
 
This big.

<------------------------------------------------------------------------->
 
_-_-SELAS-_-_ said:
Hmmm I saw a computerized drawing where it showed that a level could be alot bigger than in hl1... I think it was like 8 times bigger.
Click to expand...

...in all directions(x, y, z), but that's what source can handle. And if there were such huge levels, they'd be SP only I guess.
 
half alive said:
...in all directions(x, y, z), but that's what source can handle. And if there were such huge levels, they'd be SP only I guess.
Click to expand...

It's nothing unique, look at BF1942 and UT2004.
 
Who knows with the source your idea doesn't sound too bad. and your job is to defend ur rainbow base and the pot o gold in ur base and every plays as leperchauns that shoot rainbow dust, so it'll be like teletubbies meets the leperchaun from the leperchaun movie series and the obj. would be to steal the pot o gold and you gotta also steal the colors from there main rainbow and its all set in huge cloud platforms
 
Impulse147 said:
Who knows with the source your idea doesn't sound too bad. and your job is to defend ur rainbow base and the pot o gold in ur base and every plays as leperchauns that shoot rainbow dust, so it'll be like teletubbies meets the leperchaun from the leperchaun movie series and the obj. would be to steal the pot o gold and you gotta also steal the colors from there main rainbow and its all set in huge cloud platforms
Click to expand...


I'm too busy on Lambda Co-Op.
 
Far Cry.. that HOOOOOOOJE! Also btw, have you guys seen the lvl where they drive around in a buggy, while being chased by a alien chopper? Thats pretty big, I think :)
 
In theory, you could probably take all the levels from Half-Life and stick them together.

Then watch the map not compile due to exceeding entity limits.
 
Hmm has things been changed? Because the link says 'you can choose your unit size and the physics will be changed accordingly' and in old emails Valve replied 'you can change the unit size for bigger maps, but you would need to change a lot of physics (not in those exact words ofcourse)'

Btw, a unit is an inch standard right?
 
PvtRyan said:
Hmm has things been changed? Because the link says 'you can choose your unit size and the physics will be changed accordingly' and in old emails Valve replied 'you can change the unit size for bigger maps, but you would need to change a lot of physics (not in those exact words ofcourse)'

Btw, a unit is an inch standard right?
Click to expand...
The same problem persists though. You have a finite amount of entities and brushes. In theory you could have huge maps, But all quite empty and devoid of much detail because you'd have to cover a larger area with the same finite number of entities and brushes. So the trick is to do very small maps full up of details. Not big maps that are sparse and unpopulated
 
Fenric said:
The same problem persists though. You have a finite amount of entities and brushes. In theory you could have huge maps, But all quite empty and devoid of much detail because you'd have to cover a larger area with the same finite number of entities and brushes. So the trick is to do very small maps full up of details. Not big maps that are sparse and unpopulated
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely no mapping expert, but how is terrain generated?
Valve replied in an email that Hammer II will have the ability to import heightmaps and use displacement mapping for terrain (like BF1942)
But that heightmap has to be applied on something. Is the floor itself than also a brush? But a brush is normally a cube with 12 tri's right? And the floor is highly subdivided.
 
PvtRyan said:
I'm absolutely no mapping expert, but how is terrain generated?
Valve replied in an email that Hammer II will have the ability to import heightmaps and use displacement mapping for terrain (like BF1942)
But that heightmap has to be applied on something. Is the floor itself than also a brush? But a brush is normally a cube with 12 tri's right? And the floor is highly subdivided.
Click to expand...
Everything in a .bsp map is a brush, apart from the props, models etc. those are considered entities.. A large detailed terrain in a .bsp file is going to chew up brushes quicker than an angry lion in a nursery.

So you invest hundreds of brushes for a terrain.. Then you need to add all the entities, many of those are part of the map to make different things work, so that cuts down the available amount left for visual things like grass or enemies heh. Then you need more brushes for things on your terrain

Basically large maps are going to look pretty plain and probably pretty flat and large open area's with nothing in them.


Edit: Pi|Mu|Rho will be able to explain it better as he knows .bsp better than I do, but I think I covered the basics
 
Why did they go that route? Isn't that kind like shooting themselves in the foot?

IMO The game to best handle the editing of terrain is UEd.
 
It's a similar system to Unreal in certain respects. You have basic brushes (the World) and static meshes (props) to make it look pretty. The major difference between the two is that Unreal uses an infinite mass where you carve bits out, and Source uses an effective vacuum where you add bits. Neither approach is "better"

The biggest killer for HL2 mapping is going to be entitly limits. Valve haven't stated what the limits are yet, but I frequently hit them in Half-Life, so I should hope that they're exponentially higher for HL2.
 
Yeah but I'm sure Valve saw people were doing that and sorted it.

Those guys aren't silly ya know. ;)
 
PiMuRho said:
It's a similar system to Unreal in certain respects. You have basic brushes (the World) and static meshes (props) to make it look pretty. The major difference between the two is that Unreal uses an infinite mass where you carve bits out, and Source uses an effective vacuum where you add bits. Neither approach is "better"

The biggest killer for HL2 mapping is going to be entitly limits. Valve haven't stated what the limits are yet, but I frequently hit them in Half-Life, so I should hope that they're exponentially higher for HL2.
Click to expand...

A thanks :thumbs:
Well, I think the entity limit of HL2 is certainly a lot higher than in HL when you look at the buggy video.

And just to check: what Fenric is basically saying that the terrain is eventually converted to multiple brushes in the .bsp file when you create the terrain out of a heightmap?
 
Nah. The terrain is definatly not brush-based. That would just be a pain in the ass. Brushes have to be convex, and a terrain is naturally going to be concave a lot of the time, which would cause it to splinter horribly and send poly counts through the roof.

Not to mention, the terrain can deform in real-time.

Btw, at the default size of 1 unit = 1 inch, the map is about 800m across, or just over half a mile, if my memory serves me correctly.
 
Mr.Magnetichead said:
Well I imagined that all the players would fly around on clouds and shoot rainbow dust at each other but that doesn't mean that's what it's going to be like.
Click to expand...

Show some respect once in a while?
 
Epsi said:
Btw, at the default size of 1 unit = 1 inch, the map is about 800m across, or just over half a mile, if my memory serves me correctly.
Click to expand...

As I read it you can scale the units, but the default appears to be 1 unit = 1 inch. Fenric and PiMuRho are right about the mapping though, big levels aren't going to look fantastic, your better to go for smaller levels and exploit the higher entity levels the engine is capable of. The greater volume available coupled with the 3D sky box technology should present mappers with far more opportunity to develop interesting levels.
 
Epsi said:
Nah. The terrain is definatly not brush-based. That would just be a pain in the ass. Brushes have to be convex, and a terrain is naturally going to be concave a lot of the time, which would cause it to splinter horribly and send poly counts through the roof.
Click to expand...
Indeed. I'd assume that the displacement maps would be loaded into Hammer as a .disp file or what have you and then converted to a model file, which would dramatically increase performance as opposed to brush conversion.
 
and a UT2K4 map can be 64x larger than those, so...yeah
 
Dalamari said:
and a UT2K4 map can be 64x larger than those, so...yeah
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, well... HL2 maps are more detailed and have better physics! Plus you can change the unit scale, and if you want you can have the scale 32x larger (while still guaranteeing collision detection accuracy).

[EDIT] So that makes it... 1/64 of UT2K4 *32h*32w*32l = 512x bigger than UT2004 maps, volume-wise?
 
And, apparently, if you have a skilled enough mod team, you could seamlessly connect several parts of the level, so you could have say, 4 full-size (in x and y) maps stacked on top of each other (in z), and connected sideways to form a huge playing surface.

Apparently the Source engine is moddable enough to do that, which is astounding.
 
And I myself asked them about a feature thats going into my mod that allows the level to loop bk on itself. (Much like a 3d version of asteroids) so the map is basically endless if you should want it so.

And whats more that its fairy simple to achieve. This is what makes me excited about the source. The posiblities coupled with how user friendly it seems to be. :)
 
Marksman, with that feature you're talking about, would it be possible to create a "Hall of Mirrors" effect within an extremely small level?
 
_-_-SELAS-_-_ said:
Also btw, have you guys seen the lvl where they drive around in a buggy, while being chased by a alien chopper?
Click to expand...

HUH?! What do you mean?! I have no idea where you're talking about. I probably haven't seen that a milion times before.
 
Yeah I've seen that level, its in the E3 Gamespy video, thats awesome, and probably just as big as that Onslaught map in UT 2004, you know, that Torlan one i think its called.
 
#1 the torlan map isnt the max size for a ut2k4
#2 Dunno if they have finished the level in the alpha or not but that level is the size of maybe..awp_map in cs
 
I think I know what you mean by that and yeah I don't see why you couldnt sort somthing out like that. :)
 
marksmanHL2 :) said:
And I myself asked them about a feature thats going into my mod that allows the level to loop bk on itself. (Much like a 3d version of asteroids) so the map is basically endless if you should want it so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that'd be cool, but.. if you build a street that loop into itself, not too long, and you stand in the middle of that street. Won't you be able to see yourself further into the street? If so, you could shoot yourself... weird... but cool also. Then you could build that street as a multiplayer map so if you are shooting the others, you should watch out before shooting yourself :LOL:
 
heheheh, yeah thats very true. But in the mod I am in on that wont happen... I don't think....

We will have to be carefull mind :p

Our maps are gona be fairly big anyway so you shouldnt be able to see yourself let alone shoot yourself with the range of the weapons....
Hitscan weapons could be interesting to deal with mind ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Krynn72
You guys, what the **** is up.
Replies
11
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
TechnoHippyChic
Star Citizen
Replies
3
Views
1K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
Lizardizzle
  • Poll
A proposition: ValveTime Half-Life 1 co-op event
Replies
5
Views
1K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
TechnoHippyChic
If you post it, they will come...
2
Replies
63
Views
6K
TechnoHippyChic
TechnoHippyChic
Tollbooth Willie
HL2.NET HORROR SLAP
Replies
7
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
Back
Top