How much did the new engine aid D3?

[lans]

This is my opinion, entirely:

How many of you really thought that the shadowing/lighting done by the engine really helped to create a scary world or affect the gameplay? I mean personally I never encountered a momment where the shadows gave in my position to the enemy A.I. or I spot their shadows before actually seeing them.

So how did they affect the gameplay? - I mean sure they made the game look pretty - but their implementation to affect gameplay in the SP was hardly noticeable except when lights flickered and a enemy didn't spwan (like zombies) - and the MP well did use them more effectively - but the MP itself failed to impress.

That one scene that showed a imps shadow climbing in the alpha lab sequence was the only that really made use of the shadowing system to create a supposedly scary scene - but surely you could script such a sequence and define the shadows on the wall even without a unified shadowing system (unless a imp actually did it in real-time casting it's shadow which would be cool - but then you couldn't see the imp doing it in real time itself)

*Please correct me if I'm wrong with the statement, I'm not a very technical person.

Also, another point - what was the point of adding ragdoll physics and per-pixel hit detection in the game when the bodies just disintegrated or gibbed? The ragdolls are fun to see after you've killed someone - but most of the time the bodies just vanished, and the so-called radical "per-pixel hit detection", which id boasted about - was it really that special? I mean the A.I. was stupid enough that you wouldn't be stupid enough to miss their body anyway and shoot between legs or arms and adavnced hit-boxes could just do the job well enough, and with decals.

*I'm not considering the "no-gibbing mod" here, as the final game is the thing that shows id's actual vision.

Think about it.

 

[KagePrototype]

The shadow and lighting helped to create a tense and more immersive environment. I think it was critical to Doom 3's ability to scare you. If the player wasn't immersed in the game, and was distanced from the events in the game, they wouldn't be scared. I think some of the best uses of lighting to scare you were when all the lights go off and the walls and floors glowed orange, or when an imp teleports in. It's just a brilliant use of lighting. Without this lighting system, Doom 3 just wouldn't be the same.

As for ragdoll and per-pixel hit detection, these also just helped to immerse the player. Id realised that it's the little details that help to immerse the player, and even though you don't see per-pixel hits or ragdoll physics, you know they're there and you can see them. And if you didn't notice them, then you're blind. Go shoot a zombie with a pistol and you'll see what I mean. It just looks friggin' cool.

 

[Zeus]

What is so bad about the AI, they made it realistic. Zombies are stupid and just walk toward you not caring how big that shotgun is. (former)Marines are pretty smart and take cover and try to pin you down and advance. Demons are kind of like the zombies they try to swarm you with numbers instead of using tactics.

Hopefully the engine will be used for many games because its a good engine and I'm sick of Q3 engine games. (no physics, mediocre gfx , no dynamic lights, bumpmapping ect..)

 

[KagePrototype]

What is so bad about the AI, they made it realistic. Zombies are stupid and just walk toward you not caring how big that shotgun is. (former)Marines are pretty smart and take cover and try to pin you down and advance. Demons are kind of like the zombies they try to swarm you with numbers instead of using tactics.

I found the AI to be quite dated and unimaginative. Zombies and Trites are fine, because all they do is just walk towards you. But what about the imp? In all of the cut scenes and scripted sequences, we seem them running across walls and ceilings, jumping from one side to the other at break neck speed. Do they do this when you're fighting them? Nope. The best they do is pounce, but most of the time they just walk towards you throwing fireballs. I was really loking forward to a fast, hard to hit imp. Also, the marines, while they do take cover, all they do is simply stand and shoot. It would have been great to see them aiding each other and using team tactics, like marines should. I realise they're zombified, but still, it would have been great if they actually posed more of a threat. Really, only the machine gun marine posed a threat, because everytime a bullet hit you your viewpoint went bonkers. There was some definite wasted potential here.

 

[Lanthanide]

It's per-poly hit detection, not per pixel.

There were a few times when my shadow (once I enabled it in single player) or the enemy shadows had strategical impact, although not very many at all.

The AI was lame, they should have allowed imps to crawl over ceilins/walls etc whenever they wanted too. I looked into modding this in, but it'll require a re-write of the path-finding algorithm as currently all ground monsters will only search for paths that go on the ground, not including walls.

 

[BirdMan]

It's per-poly hit detection, not per pixel.

No, it's per Pixel hit detection

 

[OCybrManO]

No, it's per poly. Don't make me find all of those links again.

 

[Shuzer]

No, it's per Pixel hit detection

No, it's per poly. Don't make me find all of those links again.

I concur with OCybrManO. It is indeed per-poly.

 

[BirdMan]

In fact you are right it's per poly hit detection

i got mixed up with pixel shadowing

anyway is there really a big difference between hitting a pixel and hitting a poly?

 

[Prince of China]

It's per-poly hit detection you jerks!
For future references:
http://www.planetdoom.com/features/faq/

 

[CrazyHarij]

The shadow and the lightning was half the game.

 

[lans]

In fact you are right it's per poly hit detection

i got mixed up with pixel shadowing

anyway is there really a big difference between hitting a pixel and hitting a poly?

Seriosuly, even if it was per poly - it still was too easy to shoot the enemies (their A.I. wasn't challenging) and most of the time the body burned into ashes or gibbed - so you couldn't admire your accurate shots anyway.

The shadow and the lightning was half the game.

Again, this just aided the game to look more visually impressive - but hardly other than once or twice did they actually help in making a scary world or affect the gameplay.

I'm not saying that having better shadowing technique was a bad idea or as such - in fact it's a step closer to more realistic graphics - but other than being eye candy, they really didn't make the game any better than without them. (at least gameplay wise)

 

[KagePrototype]

Again, this just aided the game to look more visually impressive - but hardly other than once or twice did they actually help in making a scary world or affect the gameplay.

If we took away the lighting system and used pre-compiled shadow maps, it simply wouldn't be as tense as it was. The lighting system made the game scary; it created an immersive and tense envrionment. The graphics and sound were the main components in making this game scary, and as such the fancy lighting played a huge part in this. if Id wanted more eye candy, they wouldn't have put so many shadows in the game; a lot of detail is hidden behind shadow. Just use your flashlight on a dark patch of wall next time you're playing. True, the lighting doesn't aid the gameplay mechanics as such, but then you're missing the point. The lighting and shadowing are used to create a tense, eerie and overall scary environment. The game just wouldn't be as claustrophobic or suspensful if the dynamic lighting wasn't used to the extent it was.

 

[Sparta]

Without the lighting system it wouldn't have been Doom 3. It would've been a Resident Evil game

 

[Raxxman]

Also let's not forget that ID's Vision was limited by technology.

I consider my PC to be average on almost every account, and it runs doom okay on medium and low res.

However crank anything up a bit, or when a few enemies are starting to get into the action, then my comp starts straining.

I also know several people who are shying away from thsi game cause they don't feel they have the hardware to support it.

So ID built a great engine that works really well on medium reg systems. But adding anymore to it would really limit the avalible market, which as we know all know, is not as large as the console market.

So I feel that ID pushed the boat out as far as possible with Doom 3.

Oh my specs if yah interested are

AMD 2000+
768 megs ram
Radeon 9600 256 XT
fairly quick HD (which I can't remmeber the model, but its well defragged)