If this is true, we're in serious deep shit...

[Sprafa]

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_riverbendblog_archive.html

She stood in the crowded room as her drove of minions stood around her...A huddling mass trying to draw closer to her aura of evil. The lights flashed against her fangs as her cruel lips curled into a grimace. It was meant to be a smile but it wouldn't reach her cold, lifeless eyes It was a leer- the leer of the undead before a feeding...

The above was not a scene from Buffy the Vampire Slayer- it was just Condi Rice in Iraq a day ago. At home, we fondly refer to her as The Vampire. She's such a contrast to Bush- he simply looks stupid. She, on the other hand, looks utterly evil.

The last two weeks have been violent. The number of explosions in Baghdad alone is frightening. There have also been several assassinations- bodies being found here and there. It's somewhat disturbing to know that corpses are turning up in the most unexpected places. Many people will tell you it's not wise to eat river fish anymore because they have been nourished on the human remains being dumped into the river. That thought alone has given me more than one sleepless night. It is almost as if Baghdad has turned into a giant graveyard.

The latest corpses were those of some Sunni and Shia clerics- several of them well-known. People are being patient and there is a general consensus that these killings are being done to provoke civil war. Also worrisome is the fact that we are hearing of people being rounded up by security forces (Iraqi) and then being found dead days later- apparently when the new Iraqi government recently decided to reinstate the death penalty, they had something else in mind.

But back to the explosions. One of the larger blasts was in an area called Ma'moun, which is a middle class area located in west Baghdad. It's a relatively calm residential area with shops that provide the basics and a bit more. It happened in the morning, as the shops were opening up for their daily business and it occurred right in front of a butchers shop. Immediately after, we heard that a man living in a house in front of the blast site was hauled off by the Americans because it was said that after the bomb went off, he sniped an Iraqi National Guardsman.

I didn't think much about the story- nothing about it stood out: an explosion and a sniper- hardly an anomaly. The interesting news started circulating a couple of days later. People from the area claim that the man was taken away not because he shot anyone, but because he knew too much about the bomb. Rumor has it that he saw an American patrol passing through the area and pausing at the bomb site minutes before the explosion. Soon after they drove away, the bomb went off and chaos ensued. He ran out of his house screaming to the neighbors and bystanders that the Americans had either planted the bomb or seen the bomb and done nothing about it. He was promptly taken away.

I'm not saying she's right or wrong. I'm saying that this is the stuff that makes what you call an "insurgent". This is your suicide bomber.

 

[Solaris]

I dont think the Americans would plant the bomb unless they were making a delierate assasination attempt.

 

[Sprafa]

I dont think the Americans would plant the bomb unless they were making a delierate assasination attempt.

That's not the point. The point is what she believes in. Not if it's true or false.

 

[Cole]

Ummm....
Why the hell would we plant a bomb in Iraq?

 

[Solaris]

To kill iraqis. Oh I see your point btw, insurgancey is just an excuse to arest anyone. Hell you didnt need this to learn that did you?

 

[kirovman]

If that story were true....then they are bastards, that's all I can say.

 

[Sprafa]

This has nothing to do with whether or not that is true. It's a question of these stories running around amok in Iraq.

 

[bliink]

This has nothing to do with whether or not that is true. It's a question of these stories running around amok in Iraq.

This is going to be a difficult thread when 3 individuals have so far completely missed the intended line of discussion.

Try to read & stay on topic people!

 

[jverne]

This has nothing to do with whether or not that is true. It's a question of these stories running around amok in Iraq.

and what should you care if they are running around? i'd be more interested if this story is true!

Maybe the civil war is a good thing to keep US in control of Iraq, that's why they would plant a bomb!?

 

[Sprafa]

oh ffs... I give up...

 

[bliink]

and what should you care if they are running around? i'd be more interested if this story is true!

Maybe the civil war is a good thing to keep US in control of Iraq, that's why they would plant a bomb!?

god damnit, stay on topic you rock-brained clod!

 

[kirovman]

I'm sorry it's late and I've got an exam tomorrow...the subtleties of the post elude me.

So what's the impact of these stories running amock?

hmm...clod...have to look in the dictionary?! :upstare:

Heh, I prefer the word "Dolt"

 

[jverne]

clod!

hmm...clod...have to look in the dictionary?! :upstare:



ok, ok i get it don't blow your brains out!


edit: CLOD-->"a disease which infects coralline algae" or "A small piece of turf" :|

 

[Sprafa]

I'm sorry it's late and I've got an exam tomorrow...the subtleties of the post elude me.

So what's the impact of these stories running amock?

:|

This is the very founding of the Absolute bullshitness. Everyday life. Imagine something like that (Americans bombing, Iraqi murdering) happened to her. Her mind would be set into one goal. Revenge.

Isn't it obvious ? The next generation of Iraqis will be bred in a bed of webs of lies and deceit. How easy is it to tell this girl that their parents were killed by the American Empire and give her C4 to kill 20 anonymous others at a checkpoint ?

 

[kirovman]

:|

This is the very founding of the Absolute bullshitness. Everyday life. Imagine something like that (Americans bombing, Iraqi murdering) happened to her. Her mind would be set into one goal. Revenge.

Isn't it obvious ? The next generation of Iraqis will be bred in a bed of webs of lies and deceit. How easy is it to tell this girl that their parents were killed by the American Empire and give her C4 to kill 20 anonymous others at a checkpoint ?

Yeah makes sense. Although it's far too early for me to make some good predictions...either that or I'm too tired.

 

[baxter]

Propaganda is a very powerful weapon in warfare. Whether the story is true or not is incidental the simple fact is that people will choose to believe the story is true.
Propaganda has been used by many leaders in many struggles, it galvanizes public opinion and demonizes your enemies, and unfortunately the truth gives way to it.
This woman really believes this, truth or not, others will also believe it.

 

[CptStern]

and what should you care if they are running around? i'd be more interested if this story is true!

Maybe the civil war is a good thing to keep US in control of Iraq, that's why they would plant a bomb!?

for all intents and purposes it IS true ..in the minds of the people who were there. That alone is enough to trigger anger, and even violence towards the occupiers

 

[jverne]

for all intents and purposes it IS true ..in the minds of the people who were there. That alone is enough to trigger anger, and even violence towards the occupiers

true, true!

 

[Laivasse]

If there was a foreign occupying force in my country, and the benefit to me was dubious at best, then I'd feel entitled to think whatever the hell I wanted about my "protectors".

 

[Dag]

Thats the problem nowadays. Anybody can make a story, and anybody can make that story public. So people who want to get back at the US because they just think that some of thier policies are wrong? They write something like this. Someone wants to write something that makes America a godlike power that only does the right thing? That too can be bullshit. So read your shit carefully, and think- "Wait, would they actually do this?" as opposed to "Well, if she took the time to write it, then it must be true"

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I don't understand though how these things can get so far even when people know the truth.

The best example currently is the Newsweek Koran fabricated story. Words been out and those in the middle east know it's been fabricated, but they still are up in arms about something that never happened. A good political comic on that:

More interesting on that subject though (taken from C&F)

In commenting on a National Review article by Paul Marshall, Robert Spencer reminds us what the Newsweek Koran desecration story is really about (hat tip Tom Pechinski):

There is no excusing Newsweek's irresponsibility in publishing an explosive story that was false. But establishment conservatives like Marshall are fighting the last war if they think this is a story that is solely about media bias. Of course the media is biased, and it's getting worse, but people are waking up to that.

The bigger story here, and the gorilla in the living room that no one wants to notice, is that flushing a Qur'an down the toilet should not be grounds to commit murder.

Note the total absence of moral judgment in Marshall's piece, except that which he directs toward Newsweek. His argument is this: Newsweek should have known that this story would lead to deaths. Therefore, they shouldn't have printed it. But he says nothing whatsoever about a culture that condones -- celebrates -- wanton murder of innocent people, mayhem, and destruction in response to the alleged and unproven destruction of a book.

 

[qckbeam]

I don't understand though how these things can get so far even when people know the truth.

The best example currently is the Newsweek Koran fabricated story. Words been out and those in the middle east know it's been fabricated, but they still are up in arms about something that never happened. A good political comic on that:

Heh, that was pretty good.

As to why people are still up in arms up this Newsweek story even though it's been retracted and confirmed as false? Well I would imagine these people are angry with the US for something else, perhaps fairly or perhaps not, and want an excuse to go after US troops, citizens and so on (although I would think if they need an excuse like this to start a riot their original anger probably wasn't justified). Sometimes people are so blinded by hate that they'll refuse to accept what's true.

More interesting on that subject though (taken from C&F)

In commenting on a National Review article by Paul Marshall, Robert Spencer reminds us what the Newsweek Koran desecration story is really about (hat tip Tom Pechinski):

There is no excusing Newsweek's irresponsibility in publishing an explosive story that was false. But establishment conservatives like Marshall are fighting the last war if they think this is a story that is solely about media bias. Of course the media is biased, and it's getting worse, but people are waking up to that.

The bigger story here, and the gorilla in the living room that no one wants to notice, is that flushing a Qur'an down the toilet should not be grounds to commit murder.

Note the total absence of moral judgment in Marshall's piece, except that which he directs toward Newsweek. His argument is this: Newsweek should have known that this story would lead to deaths. Therefore, they shouldn't have printed it. But he says nothing whatsoever about a culture that condones -- celebrates -- wanton murder of innocent people, mayhem, and destruction in response to the alleged and unproven destruction of a book.

That's a very good point, and I'm surprised more people haven't brought it up. Actually, come to think of it, I haven't heard anyone bring it up.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Its all freedom of speech anyways. If I can burn the American flag in my front yard we should be able to toss a book down the drain.

On a more serious note, I do agree with you Rakurai.

The bigger story here, and the gorilla in the living room that no one wants to notice, is that flushing a Qur'an down the toilet should not be grounds to commit murder.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Another user C.D. pointed out at another forum.

They don't even seem to know or care what signs they're carrying or for what specific reason.

Conflicting signs..?

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/newsweek.quran/top.1716.newsweek.india.ap.jpg

 

[Sprafa]

If the truth costs lives, then I shall gladly give mine away.

 

[Dag]

But what if Lies cost more?

 

[CptStern]

lies DID cost more

 

[kirovman]

But what if Lies cost more?

I think he was saying he'd give his life for the truth. Your retort did not make sense in that respect.

 

[burner69]

It is worrying that many people will believe that.

Now while I am concerned about people in Iraq being detained for basically bugger all, I do not believe that the US are planting bombs... yet a lot of you are quick to say "Ah I can't believe it, it's so sick that people will believe these lies when it's so obviously not true."

All I'm saying is *cough cough* WMDs *cough cough* how many of you bought into that one? Bulls*it is something used by both sides during conflict... only we weren't in conflict with Uncle Saddam then.

 

[CptStern]

I remember reading an account of some minor cleric in iraq who was assassinated in the "green zone" (the only real safe area in iraq, controlled by the americans) ...I mean with all the security(check points into the area and even restricted access) yet they still managed to assassinate the cleric ...soldiers assigned to protect him even thought it was uspicious they were directed to another area of the compound when the assassination took place ...I cant for the life of me find the article from the eye witness but it does make somewhat sense that the US could be carrying out hits of their own

 

[SAJ]

How easy is it to tell this girl that their parents were killed by the American Empire and give her C4 to kill 20 anonymous others at a checkpoint ?

Actually, if her parents were killed it would be statisticly very likely that they were killed by american forces.

 

[Dag]

Actually, if her parents were killed it would be statisticly very likely that they were killed by american forces.

And statisticly, her parents were terrorists.

 

[CptStern]

what does that actualy mean? all civilans are terrorists? all iraqis are terrorists? only terrorists are killed by americans? no innocent civilians what so ever?

 

[SAJ]

"And statisticly, her parents were terrorists."

Im sure the soldiers would record it that way , yes.

 

[Dag]

what does that actualy mean? all civilans are terrorists? all iraqis are terrorists? only terrorists are killed by americans? no innocent civilians what so ever?

Statistics would show that all people killed by America are terrorists. Do I think this is true? No. I know innocent people are killed everyday, either by Terrorist or American hands.