Illegal Immigrants/Smugglers Down Border Patrol Chopper

[RakuraiTenjin]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/25/D8C71P6O0.html

Either give the US Border Patrol the tools it needs to properly man the border with enough people or turn supervision authority to the military which can more adequately station/maintain the land. My state of Arizona, and New Mexico have both declared states of emergency because the problem is becoming so intense.

 

[Kebean PFC]

Great... the mighty US BP Chopper downed by rocks...

See this is how you know there is something more than just your average sneaking across the border. When the "immigrants" get violent. IMHO any illegal that tries to injure a US BP agent should be arrested and tried in a US or Mexican court. If they shoot at us, we shoot back. This has got to stop. Either open the border or close it.

 

[Kangy]

Yeah, great way to show that you have something genuine to offer to the culture or economic well being of the country you intend to join by crossing the border into it, there. My views on immigration are really quite lax, but the second somebody tries something like this, it just isn't fair on the US (or any other country that would have been hosting the immigrants) and the citizenry.

 

[blinking halo]

landmines! ok thats inhumane. special ops snipers!

 

[CptStern]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/25/D8C71P6O0.html

Either give the US Border Patrol the tools it needs to properly man the border with enough people or turn supervision authority to the military which can more adequately station/maintain the land. My state of Arizona, and New Mexico have both declared states of emergency because the problem is becoming so intense.

what's with all the extreme reactionary threads lately? ..again from your misleading title I thought the immigrants had an rpg or another attack chopper brought it down ...they threw rocks

in a study of border patrol crashes 5-7 were pilot error:

"from flight jackets flying out the doors, pilots clipping the sides of cliffs and mechanics not tightening bolts, federal reports show. Those accidents have resulted in injuries to pilots and onboard agents, destroying helicopters valued at about $650,000 .

In five of seven crashes in Arizona, California and Texas investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board since 2000, Border Patrol pilots or mechanics were responsible, the board reported."


your implication is that things have gotten so bad that even choppers are getting attacked

this was an isolated incident where the rock thrower got lucky ...nothing more

 

[Kebean PFC]

Stern would you say the same if your country was being in essense (SP?) overrun by illegal immigrants?

in a study of border patrol crashes 5-7 were pilot error:

Still doesnt change the fact that a US chopper was downed by illegal immgrants.

 

[CptStern]

ya cuz no illegals come to canada from the US :upstare:


it didnt burst into flames it didnt coming crashing down, it landed safely

 

[French Ninja]

They are just throwing rocks now; but what happens when they start attacking the border patrol with small arms? :x

 

[Kebean PFC]

it didnt burst into flames it didnt coming crashing down, it landed safely

But the point is it was attacked. By ILLEGAL immigrants.

 

[CptStern]

ohh those pesky illegal immigrants risking their lives for selfish reasons like political and economic persecution ...maybe the minute men should just shoot them on sight :upstare:


with things like this happening I dont blame them

 

[Kebean PFC]

Maybe they should stern maybe they should.

Why dont they get a damn green card or work permit? Why do they have to run the border.

Oh, BTW way to go, applying the wrongs of a few to the whole orginization.

 

[CptStern]

isnt that what you do? apply the wrongs of a few to a whole group? many illegals are running from political persecution ...but I guess that isnt a good enough reason

 

[Kebean PFC]

many illegals are running from political persecution ...but I guess that isnt a good enough reason

No it is not. I have no problems with Mexicans immigrants, i do have a problem when they jut run across the border.

 

[CptStern]

cuz they're ALL mexicans right?

let me give you a scenario:


a boatload of illegals are caught in US waters ..if they're sent back they'll die of exposure ...what do you do?

 

[kjac]

cuz they're ALL mexicans right?

let me give you a scenario:


a boatload of illegals are caught in US waters ..if they're sent back they'll die of exposure ...what do you do?

sink the boat! Or if they want to be nice give them some sunscreen :cheese:

 

[Kebean PFC]

They get sent back. They are ILLEGAL. It is as simple as filling out paperwork, then they get to come here without worring about getting shot at etc.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

cuz they're ALL mexicans right?

let me give you a scenario:


a boatload of illegals are caught in US waters ..if they're sent back they'll die of exposure ...what do you do?

Arrest them and deport them. The border patrol/coast guard doesn't 'send back' as in the literal sense. IE: "Turn back and walk 25 miles the other way"

They are taken into custody and then flown/driven back to Mexico.


Immigration is great, those who want to become Americans should go through the process to do so. Illegal immigration, exploiting the economy with no allegiance, sneaking in while others go by legal means is a SLAP IN THE FACE to all Americans, especially immigrants who have worked to legally arrive.

 

[kjac]

Honestly who cares? as long as the ****ers aren't overpopulating the US we dont have any problems. I mean they are the ones that do our shitty ass horrible jobs... do u really wanna clean stalls for a living?

I know I don't, but what if employment is hard to come by for an American with little education and overdue bills? He'd much rather clean stalls and be able to pay his bills then live on the streets, I hope so anyways...

 

[KoreBolteR]

ffs, build a wall like wall of china to keep them out. put mines there, anything!!

 

[kjac]

ffs, build a wall like wall of china to keep them out. put mines there, anything!!

2 words...

Pole Vaulting

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

ffs, build a wall like wall of china to keep them out. put mines there, anything!!

It is walled on long stretches (a lot of parts aren't but the bigger crossing points for miles and miles are walled off) They manage to get over them.

 

[KoreBolteR]

this is what REALLY happens at the usa-mexiaco border :O

 

[K e r b e r o s]

what's with all the extreme reactionary threads lately? ..again from your misleading title I thought the immigrants had an rpg or another attack chopper brought it down ...they threw rocks

Stern, go smoke some pot. My homestate is literally surging with violence due to an influx of Hispanic Gangs migrating from Mexico to here. You don't have this problem, and ...

Rocks or no rocks, its still an attack -- and if these things escalate then I would suggest closing the borders.

 

[CptStern]

Stern, go smoke some pot. My homestate is literally surging with violence due to an influx of Hispanic Gangs migrating from Mexico to here. You don't have this problem, and ...

Rocks or no rocks, its still an attack -- and if these things escalate then I would suggest closing the borders.

why dont you guys just come out and admit that you're wanna be white supremacists? come on, you know you want to :E

 

[K e r b e r o s]

why dont you guys just come out and admit that you're wanna be white supremacists? come on, you know you want to

Stern, grow-up. The problem of border control is now escalating to something violent, and I think its well more then evident we need to take charge of this situation before it becomes more of itself.

 

[Gobble]

Honestly who cares? as long as the ****ers aren't overpopulating the US we dont have any problems. I mean they are the ones that do our shitty ass horrible jobs... do u really wanna clean stalls for a living?

They may be filling our shitty horrible jobs today, but what about tomorrow? Carpenters and painters use to make ok money until the positions started being filled with migrant workers for half the pay. Don’t forget about all the furniture, textiles and etc,.. businesses that are moving south of the border because of cheap labor. NAFTA’s the only thing preventing American owned trucking companies from being outsourced to Mexico.

We already lost a majority of our coal and steel business to China and Japan and these days I have to learn Spanish just to operate in the good ole USA. Generosity only goes so far and yes it does wear out.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

^ Yep.

 

[CptStern]

Stern, grow-up.

ok

The problem of border control is now escalating to something violent,

ya

and I think its well more then evident we need to take charge of this situation before it becomes more of itself.

this is your idea of "taking charge"?

watch the video ..a Minuteman is clearly overheard saying “you come down here and you will be engaged in a firefight”, “...I will shoot your mother****ing ass,” and “you wanna play, let's play mother****er.” at peaceful unarmed protestors ...is this your idea of Justice? mob vigilantism?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

For whatever you've cited, I take no responsibility over what the examples are and will become.

For now, "taking charge" in my mind registers as closing the borders and changing our policies to keep control of illegal immigration. That to me seems more decisive then your worried thoughts about a Gun-toting Redneck shooting his mouth off more then his gun.

Gangs are also a problem here, and again, we don't need more of them destablizing our neighborhoods by illegally crossing the borders.

 

[CptStern]

ya well it's not just the gun-toting rednecks


you guys are really getting skilled at doling out abuse

 

[Sulkdodds]

Oh, come on Stern. That's nothing to do with Kerboros. That's like you linking to a news story about police brutality in London and then telling me 'Yeah, Sulkdodds, you guys are getting good at beating up innocents."

It's nothing to do with him, yet you still ask him if "this is your idea of taking charge?"

Now it might be that his idea of taking charge is to nuke Mexico. But he hasn't said that yet. All he's said is 'close the border'. Give him a break.

And nobody - nobody - is showing contempt for Mexicans or anyone else. Nobody is advocating 'America for Americans'. There is no white supremism here. All people are talking about is illegal immigration, where the illegality transcends all matters of race.

I'll admit the thread title made it sound like they were heavily tooled - I imagined an RPG or stinger. Nevertheless, when they're illegally entering the country, throwing rocks at the chopper just gives that 'protest' impression. Like, what right do you have to stop us illegally coming into your country? Mad.

As for their reasons - I don't know the political situation in Mexico but as far as I know, it's not like they're East Germans coming across the Wall.

 

[Icarusintel]

Honestly who cares? as long as the ****ers aren't overpopulating the US we dont have any problems. I mean they are the ones that do our shitty ass horrible jobs... do u really wanna clean stalls for a living?

it's a crime... if they wanna come here legally i'm all for it, i don't care how many come into the country, so long as i can still speak english and get around, but i have a problem with people who break the law, especially since i try to abide by it as best as possible, and another problem is that not all of the illegal aliens (i hate the stupid names the newspapers are coming up with these days for them) pay taxes, which is another problem, and many are being exploited because they can;t help it, which is another problem

what needs to happen is for there to be enforcement within the borders against people hiring illegals, because if they can;t get work, they'll leave... then they can come back legally or go elsewhere

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Stern, I urge you to come here for a vacation or something, the southwest region.

I have a feeling that people outside of here don't know how much of a problem it is. People I talk to who live in this region, no matter the politics, from far left socialist to hardcore right agree there's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. The left often says pouring money into Mexico to help, the right says stricter borders, etc etc, but no matter what everyone HERE sees the huge problem. People outside of the region don't understand what's happening, and on how much of a fast/wide scale.

THOUSANDS. We're not talking about a few here, we're talking about a constant flow of illegal crossings.

 

[CptStern]

Oh, come on Stern. That's nothing to do with Kerboros. That's like you linking to a news story about police brutality in London and then telling me 'Yeah, Sulkdodds, you guys are getting good at beating up innocents."

It's nothing to do with him, yet you still ask him if "this is your idea of taking charge?"

Now it might be that his idea of taking charge is to nuke Mexico. But he hasn't said that yet. All he's said is 'close the border'. Give him a break.

it's not this thread alone ...it's cumulative. And I wasnt specifically singling out Kerberos

And nobody - nobody - is showing contempt for Mexicans or anyone else. Nobody is advocating 'America for Americans'. There is no white supremism here. All people are talking about is illegal immigration, where the illegality transcends all matters of race.

that may be so, however it's lying there underneath the thin veneer of civility

I'll admit the thread title made it sound like they were heavily tooled - I imagined an RPG or stinger.

as did I, yet I'm called out for it

Nevertheless, when they're illegally entering the country, throwing rocks at the chopper just gives that 'protest' impression. Like, what right do you have to stop us illegally coming into your country? Mad.

we dont know the circumstances ..for all we know they could have been fired upon. Besides with the quasi white supremacist Minutemen (hehe I wonder if their wives call them that) meteing out vigilante justice do you blame them?

As for their reasons - I don't know the political situation in Mexico but as far as I know, it's not like they're East Germans coming across the Wall.

hardly berlin, yet every day hundreds risk their lives to make it to the US ...they must feel it's worth dying for

 

[Sulkdodds]

that may be so, however it's lying there underneath the thin veneer of civility

Buuuut, as far as I can see, the focus here is on the the illegality, not the imigrant-ness. Maybe I'm just a bad judge of character.

As for reasons, a quick-read through wikipedia's 'Mexico' didn't seem to indicate a hell-hole. I'd thought it was generally poor people taken in by the 'american dream' as opposed to fleeing persecution.

we dont know the circumstances ..for all we know they could have been fired upon. Besides with the quasi white supremacist Minutemen (hehe I wonder if their wives call them that) meteing out vigilante justice do you blame them?

It was worded as if they attacked first, but I supposed we don't know. I'd find it highly unlikely, however, that the BP (British Petrol? ) would start shooting before the rocks. After, maybe.

In their position I'd kneel on the ground with my hands behind my head, I guess, as I'm the one entering someone else's country without permission. I wouldn't throw rocks at them like it was my god-given right to get in.

(this forum needs a

smiley so I can raise my damn eyebrow.

 

[CptStern]

Buuuut, as far as I can see, the focus here is on the the illegality, not the imigrant-ness.

had it been someone else who had started this thread I'd agree

Maybe I'm just a bad judge of character.

bingo! jk ...I've been here long enough and have crossed swords long enough with the right to recognise an underlying motivation when I see one ...granted I dont truely believe racism is what fuels them all (I'm looking at you here Rakurai) but I do stand by my assertation that it is the motivaing factor of some (again, I'm not naming names)

As for reasons, a quick-read through wikipedia's 'Mexico' didn't seem to indicate a hell-hole. I'd thought it was generally poor people taken in by the 'american dream' as opposed to fleeing persecution.

it isnt but I agree ..yet they must feel that it's worth it if they're willing to risk their lives

It was worded as if they attacked first, but I supposed we don't know. I'd find it highly unlikely, however, that the BP (British Petrol? ) would start shooting before the rocks. After, maybe.

a number of factors could have come into play here ..they could have been frightened they could have felt they were in danger, they could have attacked the chopper without provocation ...the thing is is that we dont know

In their position I'd kneel on the ground with my hands behind my head, I guess, as I'm the one entering someone else's country without permission. I wouldn't throw rocks at them like it was my god-given right to get in.

really? I'd run, cross the border back into mexico and give them one of these

(this forum needs a

smiley so I can raise my damn eyebrow.

yes it does

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Buuuut, as far as I can see, the focus here is on the the illegality, not the imigrant-ness. Maybe I'm just a bad judge of character.

As for reasons, a quick-read through wikipedia's 'Mexico' didn't seem to indicate a hell-hole. I'd thought it was generally poor people taken in by the 'american dream' as opposed to fleeing persecution.

It's about the illegality. Legal immigration is fine, and by God encouraged! Anyone who longs to be an American should come here legally and become a loyal citizen! That's great! Illegal immigration hurts not only the economy however (Because companies hire them illicitly for super low wages, rather than minimum wage of citizens) but culture. Illegal immigrants aren't here generally to become Americans, they're here for the money available. Thus you have a large population who doesn't want anything to do with US Culture or being American. That's the problem.

It was worded as if they attacked first, but I supposed we don't know. I'd find it highly unlikely, however, that the BP (British Petrol? ) would start shooting before the rocks. After, maybe.

In their position I'd kneel on the ground with my hands behind my head, I guess, as I'm the one entering someone else's country without permission. I wouldn't throw rocks at them like it was my god-given right to get in.

(this forum needs a

smiley so I can raise my damn eyebrow.

I don't think BP Choppers are armed. The ones I've seen are more like surveillance style (IE: Police or hospital choppers)

 

[Icarusintel]

It's about the illegality. Legal immigration is fine, and by God encouraged! Anyone who longs to be an American should come here legally and become a loyal citizen! That's great! Illegal immigration hurts not only the economy however (Because companies hire them illicitly for super low wages, rather than minimum wage of citizens) but culture. Illegal immigrants aren't here generally to become Americans, they're here for the money available. Thus you have a large population who doesn't want anything to do with US Culture or being American. That's the problem.

QFT, America still welcomes immigrants, it's not like we want to shut our doors or anything (well, some do, but not the majority) i personally love how america is such a mixture of cultures and peoples, but if you let people break the law then the country might as well be lawless

 

[Mechagodzilla]

They may be filling our shitty horrible jobs today, but what about tomorrow? Carpenters and painters use to make ok money until the positions started being filled with migrant workers for half the pay.

Everyone's favorite Maddox might talk the piss a lot, but I believe he was absolutely right in pointing out that the problem here isn't immigrants, but rather that american companies are actively attracting them with jobs, in exchange for meagre pay.

I'm willing to bet that if companies were made to stop giving this 'preferential' treatment to illegal immigrants (through law) and employ them under the same standards as anyone else, it would cut the illegal crossings in half.

The same goes for companies outsourcing overseas. Their quest for cheap labour is the real problem.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Everyone's favorite Maddox might talk the piss a lot, but I believe he was absolutely right in pointing out that the problem here isn't immigrants, but rather that american companies are actively attracting them with jobs, in exchange for meagre pay.

I'm willing to bet that if companies were made to stop giving this 'preferential' treatment to illegal immigrants (through law) and employ them under the same standards as anyone else, it would cut the illegal crossings in half.

The same goes for companies outsourcing overseas. Their quest for cheap labour is the real problem.

Foreigners need a work permit to work here. The companies are already breaking the law through even hiring them, you don't need to introduce any new legislation to get them for it.

That's why companies get .. basically "pwned" when they are found, usually via taxes, stuff not adding up and how they can do something without having enough workers marked on it and such.

Problem is it's not being enforced enough/well enough. Partly because of not wanting to upset things but also in that INS simply can't handle the load. Sometimes they'll just have to let an illegal go and just hope they come back for their deportation hearing (of course they don't.. why would they??) without deporting because there's no where to hold them before their hearing, the facilities are simply overwhelmed and full to the max, the problem is HUGE.