Immigration and Migration.

[ComradeBadger]

Terming a society today as 'multicultural' is a bit of a misnomer. Multiculturalism is a social doctrine "that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can co-exist peacefully and equitably in a single country"(1) however this has always been the case, especially in countries like the United Kingdom, which, as John Oakland argues has "always been culturally and ethnically diverse"(2), and this is above and beyond the usual differences in culture between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Considering that economic migrants have been entering the UK since the beginnings of the industrial revolution it can hardley be said that they have diluted our country's national identity.

Immigration is not a new thing, nor has it had an adverse effect on our society as a whole. Workers moved around the country finding work during the industrial revolution, Italians came to England to work, as did the starving Irish.

There is much furore over immigration in this country, and I believe that a lot of it is over-emphasized.

(1) At: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=multiculturalism,
(2)Oakland, J. ‘British Civilization: An Introduction’ London: Routledge 1996, p61.

 

[kirovman]

It should be regulated, yes, but ultimately it is important for the country.

Scotland actually has an emmigration problem currently.

 

[The Monkey]

I consider multiculturalism to be when people of many different cultures co-exist within a country as equals politically, economically and socially and when those cultures influence the political, ecominic and social life in that country. However, I don't consider a country with (for example) 99% people of European heritage multicultural, even if those people come from many parts of Europe. But if a country is (strongly) influenced by cultures from all, or almost all, continents they, in my opinion, have the right to call themselves multicultural.

 

[15357]

As in my country, 99% are ethnic Koreans, meaning that we have for the most part 1 culture.

 

[Solaris]

IMO all borders should be open. The idea that people will come to scrounge is a myth, even under capitalism you can't have to many workers.

 

[Lemonking]

I totally disagree with that Solaris.

 

[Solaris]

Why.

All workers can create surplus value, even people with no legs. or arms.
Only a tiny percentage arn't willing to work, and out benifit systems, are almost impossible to live off these days anyway.

 

[kirovman]

But what about overpopulation, which leads to crime, pollution etc?

With free borders, people will naturally just flock to the more affluent places (and reduce the affluence by doing so). A bit like how countryside people came to the cities in the industrial revolution, although that wasn't on such a grand scale and was with much lower populations.

A modern day example is in China there are strict controls over countryside people coming to the cities, since there would be social chaos if not.

Similar consequences would happen on a global scale.

The main concern about immigration is not benefits scrounging, although that is a possible factor. There's also a lot of other social and economic consequences.

 

[dream431ca]

We concider Canada as Multiculteral because, we aren't overly patriotic and we don't talk about Nationalism too much. We think such things are not good for a country. (I'm sorry, I shouldn't say "We" because it's my opinion).

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

As far as America goes, we're based on immigration and that's great. Immigrants should learn and use English in professional environments or if an English speaker is present, default to it, be aware and tolerant of western customs, and swear allegiance and loyalty as a United States citizen when becoming one.

Problem we have here is illegal immigration, not legal immigration. People coming without papers, breaking in (literally, cutting through the fences, scaling them, etc)

Census 2000 results indicate that there between 8 and 11 million illegal aliens living in the United States in 2000. The Center for Immigration Studies has reported that Census Bureau stats show that 700,000 to 800,000 new illegal aliens were settling in the U.S. during the late 1990s and that around 1 million settled in the most recent year of record. Far more than that enter illegally each year, but there is a lot of back and forth. The 1 million represents illegals who truly settle in for at least a couple of years, and usually much, much longer.

Let's assume ONLY 1 million crossed illegally in a year (the number is higher.) That is 2,739 illegal immigrants daily. I believe the problem foreigners have when wondering why we make such a big deal over the problem is that they don't realize it is such a huge number.

These aren't legal immigrants wanting to be American, either. Most are here for the money only, to send back to Mexico, funnelling money OUT of the US economy. At a small scale this wouldn't matter, but espcially in MY state, this is a HUGE issue that is really, really causing massive economic trouble. They aren't becoming US citizens and they aren't contributing to the nation. They work (illegally but shady businesses hire them) but don't pay into taxes or social security, this causes even more unbalance.

People don't realize the scope of the problem. New Mexico has declared a state of Emergency in the lower counties due to this. And people outside of the Southwest simply don't understand!

It's not a race issue at all. LULAC has called border reform advocates racist. That's despicable. Immigration is great, I welcome anyone with open arms who wishes to come here and become an American, that is truly great. Those people don't want to be Americans though, they just want the money, and it causes a great divide. Illegal immigration must be addressed here, NOW.

 

[ComradeBadger]

In the UK, Illegal immigrants are portrayed as people actively undermining our economy in order to destroy our way of life by the Conservative party ~

But a lot of immigrants in the UK just want a better life, for themselves and their families - illegal immigration needs to be adressed, but my arguement is that it doesn't negatively affect our culture.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

In the UK, Illegal immigrants are portrayed as people actively undermining our economy in order to destroy our way of life by the Conservative party ~

But a lot of immigrants in the UK just want a better life, for themselves and their families - illegal immigration needs to be adressed, but my arguement is that it doesn't negatively affect our culture.

It does a bit here though actually, but I can imagine it'd be worse in the UK given your geography and demographics, and how close everything is. It sucks to go to McDonalds and have to speak Spanglish to order (and no, it's not just a cheesy movie, it exists and for a reason )

But no one here really portrays the illegals as evil or anything (except the drug running ones and corrupt Mexican Army) it's just that they are acting parasitic on the economy rather than becoming a functioning part of it.

 

[Steve]

We concider Canada as Multiculteral because, we aren't overly patriotic and we don't talk about Nationalism too much. We think such things are not good for a country. (I'm sorry, I shouldn't say "We" because it's my opinion).

Did Quebec stop wanting to be separate recently?

 

[ComradeBadger]

It does a bit here though actually, but I can imagine it'd be worse in the UK given your geography and demographics, and how close everything is. It sucks to go to McDonalds and have to speak Spanglish to order (and no, it's not just a cheesy movie, it exists and for a reason )

But no one here really portrays the illegals as evil or anything (except the drug running ones and corrupt Mexican Army) it's just that they are acting parasitic on the economy rather than becoming a functioning part of it.

Yea, you'd think that - but the UK is suprisingly undiluted by the supposed influx of other cultures & traditions. The only problem I forsee is tensions between the Sun-reading populace and the Muslim community (the Sun portraying all Muslims as terrorists. .silly paper for idiots in my mind) since the tube bombings.

I can't really comment on your state as I don't live there and I imagine that it's hard to be a social commentor on a country/state when you have no experience of the area!

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yea, you'd think that - but the UK is suprisingly undiluted by the supposed influx of other cultures & traditions. The only problem I forsee is tensions between the Sun-reading populace and the Muslim community (the Sun portraying all Muslims as terrorists. .silly paper for idiots in my mind) since the tube bombings.

I can't really comment on your state as I don't live there and I imagine that it's hard to be a social commentor on a country/state when you have no experience of the area!

Hehe yeah. I think we deal with it differently because we don't get as many 'race boroughs' (with a few exceptions, mainly just Asian immigrant centers that get Chinatowns and such) but there's not really any "mexican towns" or anything, it's just mixed in with the populace.

The real immigrants who want to be Americans speak English and such (not always at home but thats not what matters who cares, the point is that they CAN speak English) but the illegals, not wanting to be Americans (for the most part, exceptions as always) don't know English and don't WANT to bother with it. That's where a divide comes in. That causes a lot of problems sometimes in professional/government environments, and with emergency/police services not understanding anything.