Innocent Man Killed By The Texas Government

[No Limit]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/20/texas.execution.ap/index.html?section=cnn_mostpopular

Sam D. Millsap Jr., then the Bexar County district attorney who decided to charge Cantu with capital murder, told the newspaper he never should have sought the death penalty in a case based on testimony from an eyewitness who identified a suspect only after police showed him Cantu's photo three separate times.

What the hell is wrong with this country? Is this the culture of life a certain party used to get reelected in 04?

 

[Llama]

Wow. Thats messed up

 

[kirovman]

And that is why I disagree with the death penalty.

 

[Korgoth]

And that is why I disagree with the death penalty.

And sadly, the justification will be:

"Well, what about all the guilty bad guys we kill!"

I'm sorry, but one innocent death > 1 million guilty executions.

 

[chimpmunk]

Death penality is something out of the middle ages, any country applying it can not be considered to be "civilized".

 

[K e r b e r o s]

If I killed everyone in your family Chimpmunk, would you try to kill me if you had the chance?

 

[Korgoth]

but lets say you killed eveyone in his family, and he killed your innocent brother, thinking he was the one who killed his family, and you went free, would he then deserve to die? Because he killed an innocent person, afterall...

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Lets not draw straws: Lets say he knows that I did, and everyone else does ... still want to kill me? Or will you practise what you preach, and not sentence me to execution?

 

[chimpmunk]

If I killed everyone in your family Chimpmunk, would you try to kill me if you had the chance?

Like that's gonna bring them back to life.

I wouldn't want him to die, because that's not gonna change anything. Of course, if he's still a threat to society he should be put in jail and re-habilitated(SP?).

 

[K e r b e r o s]

K. As long as you practise what you preach. So really, if I killed your family, and you caught me at the end of it all ... still, would YOU kill me?

 

[Raziaar]

Death penality is something out of the middle ages, any country applying it can not be considered to be "civilized".

I don't know about the official 'term' death penalty... but people have been put to death for thousands of years, since far before the ancient romans. Romans crucified people all the time as their death penalty, for prisoners of war, etc.

 

[Sulkdodds]

If I killed everyone in your family Chimpmunk, would you try to kill me if you had the chance?

He might well do. But he'd be wrong to do so. His judgement would be clouded by emotion and he'd be arrested, likewise, for murder. Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

And that is why I disagree with the death penalty.

QFE. What if the Birmingham Six had been sentenced to death?

 

[chimpmunk]

He might well do. But he'd be wrong to do so. His judgement would be clouded by emotion and he'd be arrested, likewise, for murder. Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

Totally agree on that.

Although I fail to understand how the pain of having loss someone will make you want to kill someone, as you're gonna put people in the same pain you are now (plus killing another human being).

 

[Solaris]

If I killed everyone in your family Chimpmunk, would you try to kill me if you had the chance?

Yes, most people would.

Justice however is the job of the state.

 

[Raziaar]

Yes, most people would.

Justice however is the job of the state.

For a person so against the establishment, it surprises me to hear you say that. Heh.

 

[Solaris]

For a person so against the establishment, it surprises me to hear you say that. Heh.

Of any state really, be it socialist (wooo!!!) or capitlist (boooo!!)

 

[Glirk Dient]

It would be very very tragic if an innocent person got mixed up in this. However we do not know for certain if he was innocent. People are having doubt about whether or not he was actually guilty. This means nothing until they prove it one way or another.

Also mind you that happened 12 years ago. Do you know how much more advanced our justice system has gotten? It is so good these days that it takes a real artist to frame someone into making them seem guilty. Next to impossible really. I am sure there are a few cases where innocent people have been found guilty but I don't think any of them recently were very serious(ie. death penalty). With the massive amount of people that go through the justice system each year our performance is actually among the top in the world.

 

[dream431ca]

Death penality is something out of the middle ages, any country applying it can not be considered to be "civilized".

I totally agree 100%!

 

[Nu Zalem]

That's sad really.

 

[CptStern]

ultimately this is what is fundamentally wrong with capital punishment. Strip away the moral dilemna and there's the issue of justice being meted out in such a final manner. Had he been sentenced to life in prison he would probably be free today. I dont think anyone could possibly defend capital punishment when things like this happen. Wont stop the apologists from hemming and hawing about "the good of the many" :upstare:

 

[15357]

The innocent are only innocent until they inevitably become perpetrators (sp?). Innocense is only a manner of timing.

No, I am not a facist (Ok, maybe I am, but thats not the point) and Yes, this was a joke that I couldn't resist.

 

[Absinthe]

He might well do. But he'd be wrong to do so. His judgement would be clouded by emotion and he'd be arrested, likewise, for murder. Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

Exactly. This is why such hypothetical situations are meaningless. As humans, we are subject to emotions and urges both rational, irrational, moral, or immoral. Such is the reason why, in sober states of minds, we have erected a concept of morality that we shall be compared against.

Killing somebody out of revenge may feel right in every bone of my body, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

[No Limit]

It would be very very tragic if an innocent person got mixed up in this. However we do not know for certain if he was innocent. People are having doubt about whether or not he was actually guilty. This means nothing until they prove it one way or another.

How do I know you weren't involved in this? I better kill you just to be safe. And when will you righties face reality? Must you cloud everything with your delusion? We know this guy wasn't guilty. The only witness that convicted him said he lied and at the time the only way he could identify the suspect is after the police showed him his picture 3 times. This guy was innocent, period.

Also mind you that happened 12 years ago. Do you know how much more advanced our justice system has gotten? It is so good these days that it takes a real artist to frame someone into making them seem guilty. Next to impossible really. I am sure there are a few cases where innocent people have been found guilty but I don't think any of them recently were very serious(ie. death penalty). With the massive amount of people that go through the justice system each year our performance is actually among the top in the world.

Yeah, our system is much more advanced now. People in California are serving a life sentence for stealing tvs while people with money, such as OJ Simpson, can walk free. Also, I am interested in your "top performence in the world" phrase, do you have anything to back this up or did you just pull it out of your ass?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Exactly. This is why such hypothetical situations are meaningless. As humans, we are subject to emotions and urges both rational, irrational, moral, or immoral. Such is the reason why, in sober states of minds, we have erected a concept of morality that we shall be compared against.

Absinthe ... one day, your going to have a quote in a history book somewhere.

 

[Sainku]

I don't mind the death penalty, but that was a pretty stupid use of it.

 

[Solaris]

Exactly. This is why such hypothetical situations are meaningless. As humans, we are subject to emotions and urges both rational, irrational, moral, or immoral. Such is the reason why, in sober states of minds, we have erected a concept of morality that we shall be compared against.

Killing somebody out of revenge may feel right in every bone of my body, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

QFT
Words of wisdom imo.

 

[Milkman]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/20/texas.execution.ap/index.html?section=cnn_mostpopular



What the hell is wrong with this country? Is this the culture of life a certain party used to get reelected in 04?

Well its not "This country" more of The State of Texas. No system is perfect and you know that, one case doesn't mean the system is a complete failure, or that the concept of execution is wrong because innocents get executed as well. If we didn't execute, we would put them in for life, and they would die innocent from age. What then now? Ban all punishment entirely?

Death penality is something out of the middle ages, any country applying it can not be considered to be "civilized".

Yeah and war is something out of the middle ages and before, lets outlaw that as well! Face it, revenge is part of human nature, civilized societies are still human societies, and you cant supress human insticts. Death penalty will always exist somewhere.

 

[Glirk Dient]

How do I know you weren't involved in this? I better kill you just to be safe. And when will you righties face reality? Must you cloud everything with your delusion? We know this guy wasn't guilty. The only witness that convicted him said he lied and at the time the only way he could identify the suspect is after the police showed him his picture 3 times. This guy was innocent, period.

The source says he MAY have been innocent. I would agree with this if the event didn't happen 12 years ago. Our system has changed a lot since then.

Yeah, our system is much more advanced now. People in California are serving a life sentence for stealing tvs while people with money, such as OJ Simpson, can walk free. Also, I am interested in your "top performence in the world" phrase, do you have anything to back this up or did you just pull it out of your ass?

None of those involve accidental death sentences. People stealing TVs getting life? There has to be much more than that. Such as previous crime(murders) that the person commited that never got caught and when they got him for stealing a TV they also grabbed the guilty man for that. It would be absurd if someone gets life for just stealing a TV.

The phrase came out of my criminal justice book which I no longer have since I don't go to school anymore. I would give you a source...but it is a school book. We studied a lot about how complex our system is and compared it to many of the others in the world and made comparisons between them and also between countries. I would search for an online source if I cared enough but our legal system being good or bad means nothing whether or not the death sentence is legal.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well its not "This country" more of The State of Texas. No system is perfect and you know that, one case doesn't mean the system is a complete failure, or that the concept of execution is wrong because innocents get executed as well. If we didn't execute, we would put them in for life, and they would die innocent from age. What then now? Ban all punishment entirely?

Well, point there is that if you later found out he was innocent you'd be able to let him out of jail.

Yeah and war is something out of the middle ages and before, lets outlaw that as well!

Wouldn't that be quite a good idea?

 

[Glirk Dient]

Well, point there is that if you later found out he was innocent you'd be able to let him out of jail.

He was in jail for 7 years. That is a long time and during that time they can almost always be found innocent if they are. A case like this is very rare and with todays technology it is next to impossible tosee the wrong man behind bars much less get the death penalty. Technology has gone a very very long ways in 12 years.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I'm sure they said that thirty years ago. But aren't most miscarriages of justice caused by corruption rather than any flaw in the technology? In Law class I've never once heard of a miscarriage of justice where it wasn't a case of the police or some other human element being at fault.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I'm sure they said that thirty years ago. But aren't most miscarriages of justice caused by corruption rather than any flaw in the technology? In Law class I've never once heard of a miscarriage of justice where it wasn't a case of the police or some other human element being at fault.

Well now they have phorensics and DNA testing and all kinds of junk so it's a lot harder to frame someone.

 

[CookieCuttah]

How did this slip? I thought that you could only prosecute someone when there were only 2 or more observers or direct evidence (Video, photo, fingerprints.)

 

[bliink]

How did this slip? I thought that you could only prosecute someone when there were only 2 or more observers or direct evidence (Video, photo, fingerprints.)

no....

 

[AzzMan]

Like that's gonna bring them back to life.

I wouldn't want him to die, because that's not gonna change anything. Of course, if he's still a threat to society he should be put in jail and re-habilitated(SP?).

Too bad most violent criminals cant be rehabilitated. Only solution is to get rid of them or lock them away in a dark place for the rest of their lives.

And if someone tried to kill me or my family, you can bet I'd put them down without an ounce of pity or remorse. Better them, than me.

 

[Cooper]

How did this slip? I thought that you could only prosecute someone when there were only 2 or more observers or direct evidence (Video, photo, fingerprints.)

Perhaps your thinking of treason? You must have two witnesses for that.

Death penality is something out of the middle ages, any country applying it can not be considered to be "civilized".

Heh, the Romans were not a civilization?



For those who are more knowledgable then me in this subject: if we did not have the death penalty how much more crowded would our jails be? Also, is there any evidence that re-hab works on convicts? Especially those who took the life of a person?

 

[falconwind]

I don't know about the official 'term' death penalty... but people have been put to death for thousands of years, since far before the ancient romans. Romans crucified people all the time as their death penalty, for prisoners of war, etc.

Yes... and somehow that makes it alright? They also killed Jesus and fed Christians to lions for amusement... If I remember correctly, that sort of behavior is generally frowned upon in civilized nations.

 

[kirovman]

Yeah, the only other civilisation that killed Jesus and fed Christians to the lions for amusement was Germany under Nazi rule.

But I agree, the Romans were a historically great civilisation. They were argueably the most civilised people of their time. They would be considered very un-civilised by today's standards though. Civilised behaviour does not a civilisation make.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Barbaric nations also drank water. We should all stop drinking water because if barbaric peoples did it then it is bad because they were bad people!

 

[kirovman]

Barbaric nations also drank water. We should all stop drinking water because if barbaric peoples did it then it is bad because they were bad people!

You are right, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

Also, I don't even know what all this means. Are we still debating capital punishment?