"Its just a goddam piece of paper"

[clarky003]

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

“I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

I’ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.”

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul this unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today."

President Theodore Roosevelt, 1906

 

[Ikerous]

I've heard him say a lot of stupid and scarey things; this is by far the scariest :|

 

[kirovman]

I've heard him say a lot of stupid and scarey things; this is by far the scariest :|

I'm not so sure. The one about God telling him to strike at Al-Qaeda was pretty scary. But this is in the top 10 for sure.

Just waiting for his "America uber alles" speech :E

 

[SAJ]

He already made it : http://www.****itall.com/bsh/ (famous four-letter word)

 

[CptStern]

cue film reel, showing #321

roll tape

http://www.knife-party.net/flash/barry.html



supplemental info:

pax americana as imperialism

their evil plans simply put



the public unveiling of their new world order:

May 29, 1998

On January 26, we sent a letter to President Clinton expressing our concern that the U.S. policy of "containment" of Saddam Hussein was failing. The result, we argued, would be that the vital interests of the United States and its allies in the Middle East would soon be facing a threat as severe as any we had known since the end of the Cold War. We recommended a substantial change in the direction of U.S. policy: Instead of further, futile efforts to "contain" Saddam, we argued that the only way to protect the United States and its allies from the threat of weapons of mass destruction was to put in place policies that would lead to the removal of Saddam and his regime from power.

The American people need to be made aware of the consequences of this capitulation to Saddam:

-- We will have suffered an incalculable blow to American leadership and credibility; -- We will have sustained a significant defeat in our worldwide efforts to limit the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Other nations seeking to arm themselves with such weapons will have learned that the U.S. lacks the resolve to resist their efforts;

-- The administration will have unnecessarily put at risk U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf, who will be vulnerable to attack by biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons under Saddam Hussein's control; -- Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves; and

-- As a consequence of the administration's failure, those nations living under the threat of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction can be expected to adopt policies of accommodation toward Saddam. This could well make Saddam the driving force of Middle East politics, including on such important matters as the Middle East peace process.


U.S. policy should have as its explicit goal removing Saddam Hussein's regime from power and establishing a peaceful and democratic Iraq in its place. We recognize that this goal will not be achieved easily. But the alternative is to leave the initiative to Saddam, who will continue to strengthen his position at home and in the region. Only the U.S. can lead the way in demonstrating that his rule is not legitimate and that time is not on the side of his regime. To accomplish Saddam's removal, the following political and military measures should be undertaken:

-- We should take whatever steps are necessary to challenge Saddam Hussein's claim to be Iraq's legitimate ruler, including indicting him as a war criminal;

-- We should help establish and support (with economic, political, and military means) a provisional, representative, and free government of Iraq in areas of Iraq not under Saddam's control;

-- We should use U.S. and allied military power to provide protection for liberated areas in northern and southern Iraq; and -- We should establish and maintain a strong U.S. military presence in the region, and be prepared to use that force to protect our vital interests in the Gulf - and, if necessary, to help remove Saddam from power


Sincerely,

Elliot Abrams William J. Bennett Jeffrey Bergner

John R. Bolton (Current ambassador to the UN ..ya how ****ed is that?) Paula Dobriansky Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan

Zalmay Khalilzad William Kristol Richard Perle Peter Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber Paul Wolfowitz

R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick










what does this all have to do with Bush's quote? ....well for one thing, his comments shouldnt come as a surprise because ..well, read the above.

 

[Beerdude26]

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/7592/bushnazi6ty.jpg

You know it's true :|

 

[Solaris]

Yup tis

 

[Bob_Marley]

This is rather a disturbing piece of information

 

[Sulkdodds]

Oh dear. :/

 

[satch919]

It's amazing how people stand up for this President after all the destructive and idiotic things he's done.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Wow that is an interesting article you posted stern. Politicians are a scary bunch.

 

[CptStern]

Wow that is an interesting article you posted stern. Politicians are a scary bunch.

it's not an article ..it's a letter to the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority Leader written and signed by Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and others: the neo-conservative group Project for the New Ameerican Century who's current members hold the highest offices in US government


here's the letter

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm

 

[Glirk Dient]

it's not an article ..it's a letter to the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority Leader written and signed by Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and others: the neo-conservative group Project for the New Ameerican Century who's current members hold the highest offices in US government


here's the letter

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm

article...letter, I just woke up and that was the first word that popped into my head even though I read through it and it says letter...I forgot by the time I read the rest of the respondes. :angry:

 

[southernman17]

That video is pure garbage stern. It is nothing more than conspiracy theory.

 

[Solaris]

Have you read what he posted?
Its all on the site.

 

[CptStern]

That video is pure garbage stern. It is nothing more than conspiracy theory.

...and you've come to that conclusion based on the video alone? you've read the statement of principles, you've read the pertinant documents that lay out their plans for pax americana through imperialism?

here ya go

 

[southernman17]

I have read what he posted. First, a brief hisory of the "imperial age" of America, which took place ~100 years ago. Second, a report on how to keep America's place of the world's only hemegony. Your piont?

 

[CptStern]

the pax americana link was self-explanatory: it's a definition meant to lead in to the PNAC statement of principles which echoes old world imperialism it's all there in black and white.

sigh ... the apologist in you gets grating after awhile ..there's more to it than your oversimplfied assessment of it.

 

[southernman17]

And there's a lot more to world politics than your limited knowledge of it stern. Where's your degree in politics stern? It seems you glean all of your information from crap on the internet. I admit, I don have a limited scope of knowledge when it comes to all of this, but so do you.

Your hatred of America is obvious stern. You attack this nation using "credible" sources that do nothing more than espouse the destruction of America.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Dude, they openly admit to wanting to take over the whole world. :/

 

[southernman17]

Remaining as the world's only superpower and spreading American influence is not taking over the whole world, which isn't even possible. If it wasn't the U.S. as the world's only superpower, then it would be someone else, most likely China. Of course, that would be after another prolonged "cold war" plunging the world into fear, again. If you ask me, I'd rather have a western nation democratic nation be the superpower than those Chinese.

 

[clarky003]

Indeed, its patently obvious that they are stepping over the line, and those PNAC sources arnt just credible, they are 'the' official sources created by the neo conservative administration thats running the US right now, none of this hostility is 'anti-american' it's anti fascisim anti global corporatisim, anti neo conservative policy,

Spreading influence 'is' taking over the world in a sense, it depends on your personal opinion, but America is one of the few countries that has been at war constantly .. its corrupt, primarily using the war machine to drive manufacturing to drive profit, to drive the economy, if you cant see the massive immoral element in that then you cant really go accusing stern of not seeing the way 'politic's' works.

All i know opinion aside, laws are being infringed, your president is saying some stupid ass things, and they have still got you invloved in an illegal war, that they lied their way into.

 

[CptStern]

And there's a lot more to world politics than your limited knowledge of it stern.

yes I agree, I couldnt possibly know it all ...dont see your point though

Where's your degree in politics stern?

and that matters because? ...I cant comment on something that they dont even bother to conceal?

It seems you glean all of your information from crap on the internet. I admit, I don have a limited scope of knowledge when it comes to all of this, but so do you.

wrong I've been researching this stuff before there was an internet ..I remember where I was when the bombs fell on baghdad jan of 91 ..where were you?

Your hatred of America is obvious stern.

spare me your armchair reactionary judgements, this has nothing to do with america as a whole but rather those who run it

You attack this nation using "credible" sources that do nothing more than espouse the destruction of America.

? the "credible" source in this instance is from the horses mouth

 

[southernman17]

we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad

America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.

The "evil" plans of the United States?

 

[Sulkdodds]

No, seriously. 'Global American Leadership' is surely pretty transparent?

 

[The Monkey]

we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad

The "evil" plans of the United States?

we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

What gives the US the right to imply their rules and their values to another culture?

 

[southernman17]

You can comment on it stern. go right ahead, but don't act like you know every aspect of world politics, like you do. Your video is nothing more than plain ole bullshit. Where did they obtain the information that the U.S. wants to take over the world and control it like a facist regime? The "manifesto" you posted does not support the video's claim. The "evil" plans are nothing more than leader's in Washington trying to figure out how to keep America as a major world influence, shaping, leading and directing world affairs. Which it has been doing for the past fifty years.

So you remember bombs falling on Baghdad in Gulf War 1, who doesn't? it's common knowledge. You failed at a making a point.

 

[southernman17]

So monkey, you don't want political and economic freedom? Okay...

 

[CptStern]

we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad

America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.

The "evil" plans of the United States?

you missed a few:

"we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles."


it's staring you right in the face ..did it ever occur to you that maybe we dont want your type of "intervention"?


"We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership"


"Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?"



"But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership."


this is all mirrored here, note the date:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm

 

[clarky003]

we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

What gives the US the right to imply their rules and their values to another culture?

thats the core question I have to agree with monkey, we are all on this planet together no one has special right's, no matter what god they worship or how powerful they are, not even if you think you deserve it we are all equal's no matter what 'stuff' you happen to own, or what kind of knowledge you have, if you mistreat your privlages then I believe in fair justice, but imposing is wrong, especially when that imposition is driven by lies and manipulation and indirectly mentioned motives, its even worse.

 

[southernman17]

America does have a unique role on the world stage. Our prosperity, security and priciples are generally means other countries security, prosperity and priciples.

If you don't want our intervention, rally your governement to cut off ties with the U.S. and see how that goes stern. Let's see how your country's economy does after that.

Again, America has led the global affairs for the past fifty years, no big change to that.

What country wouldn't want a new century favorable to their interests?

Threats to American interessts are threats to the civilized world.

 

[gh0st]

i dont care about sterns conspiracy theories, but what bush said about the constitution is unacceptable for anybody in public office... its an outrage, really.

 

[southernman17]

I agree gh0st. Hopefully, the media will pounce on that statement and bring it to the light of the Americn public.

 

[CptStern]

You can comment on it stern. go right ahead, but don't act like you know every aspect of world politics, like you do. Your video is nothing more than plain ole bullshit. Where did they obtain the information that the U.S. wants to take over the world and control it like a facist regime? The "manifesto" you posted does not support the video's claim. The "evil" plans are nothing more than leader's in Washington trying to figure out how to keep America as a major world influence, shaping, leading and directing world affairs. Which it has been doing for the past fifty years.

So you remember bombs falling on Baghdad in Gulf War 1, who doesn't? it's common knowledge. You failed at a making a point.

you know, I actually see where you're coming from. If you go on nothing more than a short video and a few bits of information you've skimmed over .. I can see how you'd fail to tie this all together. Frankly there's no sound bite or short blurb I could post that would drive this all home for you but it's all there ..the invasion of iraq, the "war on terror", the positioning of members in key roles in both the US government international bodies like the IMF, the world bank and the UN, foreign policy that curries/bullies favour from questionable regimes, the strong arming of allies to support US policy in key UN voting etc


and my point about the first gulf war was that while you were probably still in diapers I was already actively involved


oh and you guys are freakin hilarious ..conspiracy theory my ass ..read the freakin letter to the speaker of the house ..everything contained in it played out exactly as they said it should ..3 years before 9/11 ...if that doesnt tell you that the war was a sham then there's just no hope for you lot ..you're head's buried far too deep in the sand




this is just patently ludicrous:

Threats to American interessts are threats to the civilized world.

 

[kirovman]

Of course, that would be after another prolonged "cold war" plunging the world into fear, again. If you ask me, I'd rather have a western nation democratic nation be the superpower than those Chinese.

I'd say we're already in a state of fear. And that's not going to change, however many 'enemies' we defeat.

 

[southernman17]

Conspiracy theory stern. You have been viewing this crap a little too much because your overactive imagination is getting the best of you.

Oooohhhh, you're older than me. It doesn't matter what you've "researched" (which is not being actively involved), it matters what you do to change the political society of your country stern.

 

[gh0st]

oh and you guys are freakin hilarious ..conspiracy theory my ass ..read the freakin letter to the speaker of the house ..everything contained in it played out exactly as they said it should ..3 years before 9/11 ...if that doesnt tell you that the war was a sham then there's just no hope for you lot ..you're head's buried far too deep in the sand

oookkkaaayyy stern maybe you should go take a nap before your blood pressure gets too high.

someones jealous that their country isnt quite as awesome as the US.

 

[CptStern]

oookkkaaayyy stern maybe you should go take a nap before your blood pressure gets too high.

someones jealous that their country isnt quite as awesome as the US.

is that what passes for intellectual debate these days? I'm "jealous" of your country? what a ****ing waste of time you are

 

[gh0st]

is that what passes for intellectual debate these days? I'm "jealous" of your country? what a ****ing waste of time you are

this just in, canada is trying to secure national resources and make their citizens safe! shit we cant let THAT happen! since when do countries act to defend their self interests?

 

[southernman17]

There will always be uncertainty and fear in the world, no matter what society you live in kirovman. But the level and intensity fear experienced by a large amount of populations was worse during the Cold War than it is now. Of course, that's a subjective view (there's always those conspiracy theorists like alex jones and the such out there). But if you ask anyone who's lived through the worst of the Cold War when the risk of M.A.D. was a real threat, they would most likely agree that the world is safer and better now than it was during the Cold War.