It's time to come in from the cold...You've been frightened by a myth

dream431ca

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This thread is based on a British Documentray that won the award of best documentray of 2006. The documentray is called the Politics of fear, and it shows how stupid and gulliable the world is when it comes to fear. This could be a long thread, so bare with me.

30 years ago, Politicians were trying to figure out how to make people lives better. Back then there were a lot of ideologies...but it wouldn't last, as they couldn't do everything for their people. Ideology fell across the world and most people now think of politicians as managers, that can only get things done in focus groups.

However, even most ideologies were gone 2 major ideologies still existied, The Islams and the Neo Consevatives in America.

During the 1970's and 80's, The cold war was on, and America was lead by a Liberal leadership that dominated Washington. During the Liberal leadership, some people thought that America was going nowhere, and America stood for nothing. 2 People in Particular thought this. Those 2 people are:

Paul Wolfowitz


Donald Rumsfeld

These 2 individuals were Neo conservatives, or a more accurate term was Democratic Revolutionists. They didn't like the Liberals at all and thought that the Liberals were running America into the ground and making people feel like they were worthless. What they wanted to do, was to make America worth something, make it so that, America, had a important place in the world, and have the power to change the world.

While this was going on in the USA, in Isreal, one Islam extremist knew about the liberalism in America. He thought that this was a corrupt form of government that striped the people of freedom and gave people too much individualism. He believed that if people had to much individualism, the people were to become selfish and in time, the government would fall. What he wanted to do was to prevent this corrupt form of government to come into islam and infect the people.

So he formed a small group of people that would make people see the truth about this American liberalism. He would kill any politician in his country that fell to the corrupt ways of the west. When this happened, he believed that the people would rise up against the liberalism and unite Isreal.

Meanwhile in the USA, the cold war was the main topic. During this time the Liberals were in communication with the Soviets all the time to make sure nothing drastic happens between their countries. The liberals were trying to keep the peace.

The Neo Conservatives however did not like this at all. What they wanted is to unite America. The best way to do this they thought, was to create a distorted image of the Soviets. They would make the people see that the Soviets were a major threat to America and the entire world. They told americans that the Soviets were planning to attack america at any moment. The FBI however said that this was pure fantasy, and there was no such threat to the American people. The Neo Conservatives continued to push their campaign of fear in America, to make the American people see the Soviets as the great evil in the world.

In Isreal, the small group that was formed assinated a leader that listened to american polticians. After the assination, they were arrested. Most of them were executed but a few were sent to prison.

In America the Neo conservatives were pouring fear into the american public with bomb threats and air strikes from the soviet union. Of the course the media took the bait and portrayed the Soviet Union as an evil enemy against America. The liberals and the FBI again said that all that was being said by the Neo conservatives was a myth and didn't exist.

Finally America decided it was going to help Afganistan by drawing out the soviets. Americans poured weapons into Afganistan, taught them how to car bomb (I kid you not), and supplied them with money to help them to draw back the soviets. Eventually the Americans and Islams sent back the soviets, and not to long after that the Soviet Union Collapsed. The problem is Both the Islams and the Americans believed that they were responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. In reality the Soviet union was already in a bad state and was already in the midst of collapse, which was caused by itself.

Because the Islams and Americans believed that they were responsible for the collapse, the both believed they could change the world.

This exact same thing is happening today..and it starts with September the 11th.

September the 11th happened because the Extreme Islams were not getting anywhere by attacking their own people. They thought by attacking the source of the Corruption, the people would see the truth behind the American Liberalism.

This is exactly what the Neo Conservatives needed to target a new evil..and distort reality. After 9/11, America attacked afganistan and caught or killed anyone associated with Terrorism. The american government said that a group called Al Queda was the source of all this terrorism and had groups around the world, ready to strike anywhere at anytime. The Americans said that they were hiding in the mountains of Afganistan, so they sent troops to capture or kill them...the troops found nothing.

Why did they find nothing? Because the terrorist group Al Queda, Does not exist.

Once again the Neo conservatives distorted reality, turning a small thing into a huge evil that does not exist. The truth is 9/11 was caused by a small group of Islam extremists that had nothing to do with Usama Bin Laden. The Neo Conservatives are continuing to find new evils in the world like Iraq. They stated that Iraq had WMD's and the potential to destroy America. When America invaded Iraq to find the WMD's, they found none because the WMD's did not exist.

The whole point for distorting reality, is Power. The Neo Conservatives can do anything they want if they say that something is threating america, that is threating your schools, your kids, your home, and your dreams. Fear is what drives their power. Also it creates a purpose for America. They want America to be the leader against all evil, to make America mean something to the people who live their.

They also used another powerful tool to do this...Religon..mostly the Christian religion. They new that Religon was a powerful tool to perswade people into their ideology.

The only thing that keeps these politicans in Power is Fear. Without Fear, they are nothing. Fear creates the will to make a person believe in the ideology of another.

Terrorism does not threaten the world and it certainly does not threaten America. Most people believe that 9/11 was caused by Al Queda. The reality is Al Queda does not exist, and the people who attacked the World trade center are either dead or in prison. When Politicans run out of things to scare us with, they will have to answer to the Myth's they have created and they themselves have been caught up in.

This Thread was based on the Documentray called the Poltics of Fear. I recommend this Documentray if you are intrested, there is so much more information to be learned by watching it.
 
Interest piqued.

Spelling could use some work.

I'd like proof Al Queda doesn't exist. And by proof it doesn't exist I mean proof it was made up. Not that hard.
 
Interest piqued.

Spelling could use some work.

I'd like proof Al Queda doesn't exist. And by proof it doesn't exist I mean proof it was made up. Not that hard.

Ya, I'm not a good speller :(...maybe it's just I didn't spell check this in word.

What they are pointing out about Al Queda is there is no evidence for it's existance. Basically they can't find a global network of terrorists who are always in touch with each other.
 
I bet.
Hell I'm not even always in touch with my best friends, and we all use the internet every day.
 
I bet.
Hell I'm not even always in touch with my best friends, and we all use the internet every day.

And that proves the point that Al Queda's existance is a false one. If you can't even stay in touch with your friends how the hell can a global network of organized terrorism keep in touch? Kind of strange to me.
 
And that proves the point that Al Queda's existance is a false one. If you can't even stay in touch with your friends how the hell can a global network of organized terrorism keep in touch? Kind of strange to me.
yep sounds like proof al qaeda doesnt exist to me!
 
The Rush Limbaugh​

Al-Qaeda is just a bogeyman. "Is it conceivable," "that Al Qaeda, as defined by President Bush as the center of a vast and well-organized international terrorist conspiracy, does not exist? To even raise the question amid all the officially inspired hysteria is heretical, especially in the context of the U.S. media's supine acceptance of administration claims relating to national security. Yet a brilliant new BBC film produced by one of Britain's leading documentary filmmakers--" probably their version of Mary Mapes, "--systematically challenges this and many other accepted articles of faith in the so-called war on terror." The name of this documentary, "The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear." It's a three hour historical film by Adam Curtis. "It argues coherently that much of what we have been told about the threat of international terrorism "is a fantasy that has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It is a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services and the international media."

Isn't it interesting who the left now turns to for their source authorities? Filmmakers! I guess Michael Moore has run his course. Now we gotta go get somebody from the respectable so-called BBC named Adam Curtis who claims that Al-Qaeda is a figment of our imaginations, it's been foisted on us by a bunch of conspiratorial governments for the purposes of more government power, the erosion of civil rights, the killing of innocent women and children and so forth -- and of course it's not just the U.S. that's involved in this. The British are involved and all of the coalition partners are involved in this, and I guess we would have to include Bill Clinton and John Kerry and all the other Democrats in 1998 who signed on to this, and I guess we'd have to include all the Democrats who signed onto use-of-force authorization that they demanded Bush let them vote on again in 2002. "The documentary does not doubt that an embittered, well-connected and wealthy Saudi man named Osama bin Laden helped finance various affinity groups of Islamist fanatics that have engaged in terror, including the 9/11 attacks. Nor does it challenge the notion that a terrifying version of fundamentalist Islam has led to gruesome spates of violence throughout the world. But the film, both more sober and more deeply provocative than Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 9/11,' directly challenges the conventional wisdom by making a powerful case that the Bush administration, led by a tight-knit cabal of Machiavellian neoconservatives..." Read: Jews. Is what that means. "...has seized upon the false image of a unified international terrorist threat to replace the expired Soviet empire in order to push a political agenda."

Now, keep in mind, this is coming from the same people who said that George Bush did not do enough to stop the 9/11 attackers, that George Bush was responsible. Remember all those presidential daily briefings at the 9/11 Commission? That whole commission was impaneled to try to blame Bush for not doing enough to stop 9/11. Now all of a sudden there is nothing really serious to worry about. It's all a conceived and concocted conspiracy based around one lonely Saudi terrorist, Osama bin Laden, and that attack has been used to destroy civil rights, murder innocent women and children around the world, and basically empower a bunch of rich Republican Jews in America. Folks, I'm tired of this word "neocon." Let's get it out on the table. When you hear the word "neocon" used by anybody, it just means Jews, Republican Jews. That's what neocon means. You're going to have people argue with me about it, it may be a larger definition to some people, but the people who use that term pejoratively are talking about not Democrat, not liberal Jews, Republican Jews. Wolfowitz, Kristol, Richard Perle, these are the people that are blamed for getting us all into this, and it's all about... Well, you can take it from there. I don't need to add any more to it.

nice topic.
 
In Isreal, the small group that was formed assinated a leader that listened to american polticians. After the assination, they were arrested. Most of them were executed but a few were sent to prison.

:D
 
Death by ass, what else? :D


But in all seriousness, I'm sure that Al Qaeda exists in some form, that individual terrorists have formed some communication network (much like, say, us?) that empower them with intel and equipment. But to suppose that they are a fine-tuned machine of death and destruction has always been exaggerative.
 
It's certainly an interesting topic, but I kind of doubt some of the information. Maybe the media's propaganda has brainwashed me so, but I do believe some form of Al-Qaeda existed/exists.
 
Having friends who have been to Guantanamo, Iraq, and Afghanistan, I'm pretty damned sure Al Qaeda exists. Now, it certainly isn't a huge evil empire of terrorists, but they're still a very real concern. They do operate all over the world and could strike at any time. Refusing to believe in Al Qaeda merely means you're just dodging the truth and refusing to accept that the world is a dangerous place, and you should be afraid of certain things to an extent, but you shouldn;t let fear rule your life. Honestly, if you're not afraid of anything, then you're an idiot, but then again, if you're afraid of everything you're not exactly going to lead a really great life.

So, anyway, I got really critical of that after I read Al Qaeda didn't exist. Some people believe, and say, the dumbest shit in the world.
 
some of you dont seem to understand what they're saying about al qaeda not existing ..it's not that they dont exist anywhere but rather they're saying that it's a myth that al qaeda is this well organized global terrorist army made up of tens of thousands of soldiers/martyrs/fanatics ...the evidence has never supported that ...example: in guantanamo alleged al qaeda suspects only make up 8% of the prisoners

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=885659
 
some of you dont seem to understand what they're saying about al qaeda not existing ..it's not that they dont exist anywhere but rather they're saying that it's a myth that al qaeda is this well organized global terrorist army made up of tens of thousands of soldiers/martyrs/fanatics ...the evidence has never supported that ...example: in guantanamo alleged al qaeda suspects only make up 8% of the prisoners

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=885659
Ah, well, that helps. Then that makes me agree a bit more with that assertion. They certainly aren't some huge army of fanatics running around bombing everything, but they're also not nice, innocent, little kids sitting around playing hopscotch.
 
Having friends who have been to Guantanamo, Iraq, and Afghanistan, I'm pretty damned sure Al Qaeda exists. Now, it certainly isn't a huge evil empire of terrorists, but they're still a very real concern. They do operate all over the world and could strike at any time. Refusing to believe in Al Qaeda merely means you're just dodging the truth and refusing to accept that the world is a dangerous place, and you should be afraid of certain things to an extent, but you shouldn;t let fear rule your life. Honestly, if you're not afraid of anything, then you're an idiot, but then again, if you're afraid of everything you're not exactly going to lead a really great life.

So, anyway, I got really critical of that after I read Al Qaeda didn't exist. Some people believe, and say, the dumbest shit in the world.



Ah, well, that helps. Then that makes me agree a bit more with that assertion. They certainly aren't some huge army of fanatics running around bombing everything, but they're also not nice, innocent, little kids sitting around playing hopscotch.

the link I posted also says:

SSRN said:
Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.
 
I wouldn't be suprised in the slightest if everything in your original post, Dream, was true. Infact, for the most part, i'd be more suprised to find out that what you're saying is false.

I saw that documentary too, btw. Good stuff, and well worth a watch.
 
some of you dont seem to understand what they're saying about al qaeda not existing ..it's not that they dont exist anywhere but rather they're saying that it's a myth that al qaeda is this well organized global terrorist army made up of tens of thousands of soldiers/martyrs/fanatics ...the evidence has never supported that ...example: in guantanamo alleged al qaeda suspects only make up 8% of the prisoners

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=885659

Oh well obviously. I thought he just meant like you said, a global terrorist army which they clearly and most definitely are not.
 
Oh well obviously. I thought he just meant....


who are you referring to? in that specific post I wasnt addressing anyone in particular ..at least 3 people said they wanted proof al qaeda didnt exist
 
Am I right in thinking Al-Quedia is more of an ideology than an organised terror group?
 
I think Stern posted links to the actual documentary before. In any case, it's up on google vids:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1002626006461047517&q=power+of+nightmares
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7930933565201168&q=power+of+nightmares
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3649090417189127240&q=power+of+nightmares

I'm going to watch it now, I only half watched it when it was aired on TV over here (it's pretty heavy going iirc).
Man|-|unter said:
Al-Qaeda is just a bogeyman. "Is it conceivable," "that Al Qaeda, as defined by President Bush as the center of a vast and well-organized international terrorist conspiracy, does not exist? To even raise the question amid all the officially inspired hysteria is heretical, especially in the context of the U.S. media's supine acceptance of administration claims relating to national security. Yet a brilliant new BBC film produced by one of Britain's leading documentary filmmakers--" probably their version of Mary Mapes, "--systematically challenges this and many other accepted articles of faith in the so-called war on terror." The name of this documentary, "The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear." It's a three hour historical film by Adam Curtis. "It argues coherently that much of what we have been told about the threat of international terrorism "is a fantasy that has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It is a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services and the international media."

Isn't it interesting who the left now turns to for their source authorities? Filmmakers! I guess Michael Moore has run his course. Now we gotta go get somebody from the respectable so-called BBC named Adam Curtis who claims that Al-Qaeda is a figment of our imaginations, it's been foisted on us by a bunch of conspiratorial governments for the purposes of more government power, the erosion of civil rights, the killing of innocent women and children and so forth -- and of course it's not just the U.S. that's involved in this. The British are involved and all of the coalition partners are involved in this, and I guess we would have to include Bill Clinton and John Kerry and all the other Democrats in 1998 who signed on to this, and I guess we'd have to include all the Democrats who signed onto use-of-force authorization that they demanded Bush let them vote on again in 2002. "The documentary does not doubt that an embittered, well-connected and wealthy Saudi man named Osama bin Laden helped finance various affinity groups of Islamist fanatics that have engaged in terror, including the 9/11 attacks. Nor does it challenge the notion that a terrifying version of fundamentalist Islam has led to gruesome spates of violence throughout the world. But the film, both more sober and more deeply provocative than Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 9/11,' directly challenges the conventional wisdom by making a powerful case that the Bush administration, led by a tight-knit cabal of Machiavellian neoconservatives..." Read: Jews. Is what that means. "...has seized upon the false image of a unified international terrorist threat to replace the expired Soviet empire in order to push a political agenda."

Now, keep in mind, this is coming from the same people who said that George Bush did not do enough to stop the 9/11 attackers, that George Bush was responsible. Remember all those presidential daily briefings at the 9/11 Commission? That whole commission was impaneled to try to blame Bush for not doing enough to stop 9/11. Now all of a sudden there is nothing really serious to worry about. It's all a conceived and concocted conspiracy based around one lonely Saudi terrorist, Osama bin Laden, and that attack has been used to destroy civil rights, murder innocent women and children around the world, and basically empower a bunch of rich Republican Jews in America. Folks, I'm tired of this word "neocon." Let's get it out on the table. When you hear the word "neocon" used by anybody, it just means Jews, Republican Jews. That's what neocon means. You're going to have people argue with me about it, it may be a larger definition to some people, but the people who use that term pejoratively are talking about not Democrat, not liberal Jews, Republican Jews. Wolfowitz, Kristol, Richard Perle, these are the people that are blamed for getting us all into this, and it's all about... Well, you can take it from there. I don't need to add any more to it.
Saying 'LOL crazy british anti-semitic liberal 9/11 conspiracist filmmakers!' is not an argument.
 
Terrorism usually is an ideology.
I donno about that. It's more a means (not a partiularly good one) to support (i.e. get things done) an ideology. Ex. We want change in the governement! Ok, they're not listening to us. Ok, lets blow up a car in a busy square. That'll get their attention.
 
Is this anything to do with "Project for the New American Century"?
 
Terrorism usually is an ideology.

And I was referring to you Stern. I quoted you after all.
Tactic. Again it's just a method of unconventional warfare. As gunner said, it's more of a means to get something across.
 
kirovman said:
Is this anything to do with "Project for the New American Century"?

It's all tied together, all neo conservative political goals are associated with that site. I guess some people just glance at the project and think holy shit thats outrageous and then somehow think it's fake because it's on the web as the only public document available.

If it was printed and issued to people all over the US im sure that would be far more effective at turning a few more heads, Even though its on the internet it seems to be under the radar in political circles for that reason, when it should be taken very seriously.

I guess its pretty crafty, make it publically available so you can state that you did make your plans publically known, yet restrict the agenda to that media because of the obvious realisation that it won't go down too well with alot of people.
 
Sorry for the week-stale bump, but I've finally managed to complete my viewing of this 3-part documentary. This thread didn't get a hell of a lot of attention, which led me to suspect not many people bothered to watch the vids - LAST CHANCE GUYS! This is really telling stuff. I don't think you can afford to miss these while still claiming to have an interest in the state of world affairs today re:the war on terror.
(yes, I am drunk, but still lucid. Watch the ffffghking documentariés dammit...!)

edit - read also Adam Curtis' responses to the film at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/4202741.stm
 
I don't care too watch this as it sounds about as credible as Loose Change.
 
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